Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

Pak Generals know how to defeat the Islamists terrorists. Nothing new. Back in the 70’s the then Brig. Zia ul Haq beat the cr@p out of Palestinian militants in Jordan.

In that way, only two armies in the world have broken the back of Arab militants. Pak army and Israeli army.

I remember one TV interview of a Pak general in Wazirastan. The TV guy says, Taliban are “battle hardened”. The general said, so are we!

Swat: a model for US generals in Afghanistan

  • Frequent visits by US generals highlight success of military operation
  • Americans looking to replicate ‘Swat model’ in Afghanistan

By Iqbal Khattak

PESHAWAR: From US National Security Adviser James Jones to Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen, no senior American military dignitary’s visit to Pakistan is complete without a trip to the former Taliban stronghold of Swat.

Less than 24 hours after a suicide attack ripped through Mingora, US Gen David Petraeus’ visit to Swat on Tuesday is a testament to the importance Washington attaches to the “successful Swat model” of an operation against the Taliban.

“These visits help the Americans understand how the Taliban were defeated and how the same model will work in Afghanistan,” said former military officer Brig (r) Mehmood Shah of American generals’ frequent trips to Swat after the district was “liberated” from the clutches of the Taliban last year.

Security experts say it is absolutely beyond doubt that the situation in Swat has taken a “180-degree turn” compared to the pre-May 2009 period.

While simple military briefings can be arranged at the General Headquarters for American generals and other high-ranking dignitaries, it is believed physical presence in the former Taliban stronghold gives the visiting dignitaries a true feeling of victory over the Taliban in testing terrain like Swat.

So what is the Swat model? Experts say the model gave the military a new strategic advantage in flushing out armed groups holding densely populated urban areas without causing civilian casualties and as little damage as possible to public and private properties.

While more than two million civilians were displaced amid the Swat operation, they returned home three months later, with the Taliban forced out of urban and rural areas.

The successful execution of the offensive encouraged the Americans to replicate the Swat model in Afghanistan’s Helmand province, where a 15,000 strong force of US and Afghan troops launched ‘Operation Moshtarak’ on February 9 – the first coordinated and serious anti-militant operation in Afghanistan since the Taliban regime there was overthrown in 2001.

“They are good for us as well, as it gives us opportunities to sell our model worldwide. The Americans may also feel good when they are standing in an area previously held by militants … it gives them the feeling that victory over the Taliban is possible,” said a military officer.

The officer said the Americans “now try to understand what army chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani is saying can be tried in Afghanistan”. He said any acknowledgement by Washington of Pakistan’s “legitimate national interests” in Afghanistan could bring the two armies closer.

“Just listening [to news] or reading about the Swat model may not help you understand the ground situation … physical presence in the area is essential,” said the officer, who has
years of experience in the war against militancy.

Operation Rah-e-Nijat in South Waziristan is an extension of the Swat model, and results so far have been encouraging – with the ‘clear, hold and develop’ strategy apparently working against the Taliban.

The US also appears to be believing Gen Kayani, who says that successful execution of an operation in the Mehsud areas of South Waziristan would ultimately lead to a major assault on the group’s last strongholds in North Waziristan, before the elimination of militancy from Pakistani soil.

Meanwhile, it is yet to be seen how successful ‘Operation Moshtarak’ would be, to allow comparisons to be drawn and determine if simple replication of a model can lead to victory against insurgents.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

LOL

Only khattak can write this.

:hehe:

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

Tribals will have the their behind beaten until they cry mama!

Times have changed, and so have the military tactics. Unfortunately many in Pak still live in the era 600 AD, and thus refuse to learn and thus to avoid the follies of the past.

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

You seem t be living in fantasy world of a retired sobeydaar.

Atleast post an article by someone of a substance. In the whole article not one statment by a serving, known Pakistani or US officer.

you are right. Perhaps all of us are living in the fantasy world who read news about American Generals from Top level to the mid-level visiting Swat on regular basis.

And you my bhai, would be right (again) to think that the top military brass from USA comes to Swat to have a cup of tea and biscuit (with some pakoras and naan) in Magnora.

Shabash. You sure are thinking like a 10-star (ordinary 4 stars won't cut it for your great mind) general.

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

what 'model' are these loonies talking about? evacuating 2 to 3 million people, within which most of the terrorists mixed and fled is the model?

Whatever you say, Americans learned from the same model. And yes the lefties were jumping up and down about the refugees. But Pak army got the job done.

Have the talibots completely disappeared? no.

Is it perfect job? May be

Did the Talibot @rse got nailed that the control has reverted to civilians? You betcha!

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

U.S. General David Petraeus on Tuesday praised Pakistan’s fight against Islamic militants as “quite impressive,” saying the c**ounter-insurgency would be studied for years to come. **

Petraeus, head of the U.S. Central Command who helped write the Army Field Manual on counter-insurgency and is widely credited with turning around the Iraq war, said Pakistan was running a classical campaign in the Swat Valley and South Waziristan.

“This campaign is really quite impressive,” he told reporters during a visit, “…and I think some of the names of the leaders involved in this will be seen as quite expert practitioners in counter-insurgency strategies.”

The militant takeover of Swat and South Waziristan raised fears for the stability of Pakistan, a nuclear-armed U.S. ally.

In April last year the military launched a major offensive against Pakistani Taliban militants in those areas and largely cleared out the Islamist fighters after months of clashes. Petraeus, overseeing a surge of 30,000 U.S. troops into neighbouring Afghanistan in an attempt to regain the momentum against the Taliban there, has said a political solution that reintegrates lower level fighters was key to stabilising the region.

Analysts say Pakistan is well placed to help since it nurtured the Taliban in the 1990s.

Pakistan’s government has said it is reaching out to all levels of the Afghan Taliban, but has recently arrested a number of high-ranking commanders – including the movement’s military leader and No. 2, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar.

The effort against the Afghan Taliban operating from Pakistan is significant because the main Taliban factions, such as those led by veteran guerrilla commander Jalaluddin Haqqani and Mullah Mohammad Omar, derive support from networks and bases there.

The capture of Baradar and other Taliban commanders has cheered the Americans and led to an easing of calls for the Pakistanis to do more against extremists.

Petraeus said that any new, large-scale Pakistani offensive against groups such as the Haqqani network in the immediate future was unlikely, and that critics needed to appreciate the gains already made.

“You can only take on so many hornets’ nests at one time,” he said.

(Reporting by Chris Allbritton; Editing by David Fox)
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100223/tpl-uk-Pakistan-petraeus-81f3b62_1.html

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

this is simply a pat in the back for the humongously disproportionate collateral damage that Pakistan willingly took on itself.

Professional outcome of military is very similar to

professional outcome in other fields of expertise. When Bill gates says an Indian Kompooter Kumpany did well, he is not putting a pat on the back. He really means it.

Similarly in the matters of straetegic struggle in the Fgahanistn, if a group of professionals (Pak army officers and jawans in this case) did well, then why an Indian poster should have his hair get on fire?

Have we gone that pessimistic now? and that negative? just because something good is said about your "arch enemy"?

Had you not considered Pakistanis as your arch enemy, you won't need a fire-extinguisher for your hair.

Got it?

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

don't read any complexity into what I wrote. My objection was not to one professional complimenting another professional - absolutely agree with that.

The part about it being a 'model' is what I consider not just a stretch but an outright baseless rhetoric, given the few things I pointed out earlier.

btw - good one about the fire extinguisher - hadn't heard that expression before

Well. Thanks for this part (and I mean it).

You talked about "excessive" collateral damage done by Pak army. Correct?

Bhai,

This is precisely the point of the original post. That the collateral damage considering the militancy is very very low. And American generals want to learn from it.

Got it?

Re: Pakistan Generals teach US generals- How things get done - Swat style

how do you accept evacuation of 2 to 3 million into months of IDPs? and that too as a model? do you think that is repeatable or repeatworthy?

Well perhaps you would prefer the Americans examine Indias model in Occupied Kashmir or against the Maoists?

As opposed to allowing civilians to become human shields? Would you perfer we allow them to die amongst an enemy that could care less whether they end up harming civilians in the process?
I suppose you would prefer a Gaza like offensive which ultimately ended up killing nearly 3000 civilians?!?!?

For someone who has absolutely no insight on such an issue, you certainly have a lot to say. At the end of the day however, we have the praise of the people of Swat and people with actual insight on such things. So who really cares about an Indians opinion?!?!

to do what?

you're settling and badly, I'll tell you why.

Yes when the only two options are massive bodycount vs massive evacuation, the latter is better.

are those the only two options you guys have inside Pakistan?

Yes. precisely Ipod bhai.

precisely.

Doing counter insurgency in the middle of millions of innocents is the most $tupid thing to do.

thus the militancy is controlled and then removed by putting protective rings around the affected area, then removing the civilian population, and then doing the surgery against Talibotic cancer is the way to go.

I wonder why you didn't think this through!

it is just like fighting a fire in a building. The firefighters should not continue pouring the loads of water while 100s of occupants are still in the basement of the building.

You control the fire, until you know that you got everyone out of the building, and then you douse the building with all the water and chemicals you got.

That way you DO NOT drown and kill the inhabitants of the building. Using this process, you can rebuild if needed, but you SAVED the people.

The IDPs were just like the people removed from the burning building.

You may have issues with the way IDPs were care for. And yes we should improve our response.

But a hungry IDP is preferable over a dead IDP.

Got it?

Those are the only two options we have ANYWHERE in the world. You show me where in the world any Army, even one superior in technology to Pakistan has been successful in fighting a counter insurgency without causing massive collateral damage?!?!?

Still ends justify the means. Should we sit here and be lectured by Indians, who themselves have very little success in counter insurgency, or should we take the word of the people of Swat and the praise of other military experts, who themselves are fighting a counter insurgency battle?!?!? Who do you think is more credible?

As a better model..