Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
I am not arguing with that, he might have said it just to gain sympathy of his voters. Bengledesh did not create on the basis of what he was saying. When dictator of the time did not hand over power to the winners of the 1970's elections, became a reason for Bengalis to separate.
This is off topic. If you want to open a new thread, I will happy to contribute with proof that bhutto was not responsible for creation of Bengladesh.
There is no need. You answered it yourself. He said to get sympathy from his voters and could you please tell me how many seats he won in east Pakistan. His sympathies were with "idhar hum" not with "udhar tum". peace
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
oh Asif paaji, I have seen your other thread about Pak Army in which you lash they are bunch of incompetents but believe me if you have got something called Pakistan today then its only because of Army. It's true that we weren't as successful as many people would like us to be but you need to study facts. India inherited 98% of Army machinery from Britain and there wasn't a single arms production facility in Pakistan at that time. India was generously supported by once superpower Russia while our's was always viewed with contempt by both US and USSR. Indians spend three times more than Pakistani army and their army's only job is to look after their borders not the political corridors.
In Pakistan, Army was dragged into politics by incompetent politicans. You tell me single takeover that happened in the absence of incompetency of politicans. Be it's Iskander Mirza, Bhutto, NS they all made army to take over and army would continue to do so because it is an only organized institution in Pakistan. If you want to stop that then make non army institutions stronger and don't expect General Musharraf to do that or any power hungry politicans to do that because that would be their demise. Unless Pakistani people get "awam ka leader" not feudal lord or industralist that would continue continue to happen and yes ofcourse I don't like "tun basha" that much
Don't know why we are discussing this in this thread but Sir with all due respect I beg to disagree with you there. Nothing what Bhutto or Nawaz did gave army the licence to step in. However bad their governance, they were THE elected leaders of the time and the military should have respected that. And it was n't like because of the actions of Bhutto or Nawaz, Pakistan was in imminent danger of being occupied by foreign forces etc. That was political opportunism and nothing else as I see it. The people of Pakistan (and not the military) should have the right to decide their destiny thru successive elections. Let democracy flourish in our country first. All we need is strong democratic institutions and a strong impartial judiciary to keep a check on the executive branch. Politicians in India are also corrupt but the military never intervened there and let the process continue. As a result democracy is well-established there. And thanks to a strong educated middle-class (2/3 of their population), India I believe is now making real progress.
In nutshell I am not anti-fauji but anti-fauji involvement in politics.
waise mein wohi baatein repeat kar kar k thak gaya hoon.
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
But I don't get it. They stopped her from holding a procession in Pindi citing increased risk of suicide-bombing but they are seemingly happy with her leading a procession from Pindi to Lahore. These bombers I am sure also know how to drive cars...
The authorities haven't actually said if they will allow her rally yet. Btw, the rally is from Lahore to Pindi. Usually it is the other way round. Now why do you think she quite deliberately chose Lahore as her starting point? Nawaz Sharif's rather panicky letter to her should give you a little indication. More of the drama.
Anyhow, in a couple of days time the National Assembly is due to be dissolved, so starting the 90-day process to elections. That will take the wind out of the still budding domestic "movement" against the Emergency and snuff out any international protests at the same time.
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
Don't know why we are discussing this in this thread but Sir with all due respect I beg to disagree with you there. Nothing what Bhutto or Nawaz did gave army the licence to step in. However bad their governance, they were THE elected leaders of the time and the military should have respected that. And it was n't like because of the actions of Bhutto or Nawaz, Pakistan was in imminent danger of being occupied by foreign forces etc. That was political opportunism and nothing else as I see it. The people of Pakistan (and not the military) should have the right to decide their destiny thru successive elections. Let democracy flourish in our country first. All we need is strong democratic institutions and a strong impartial judiciary to keep a check on the executive branch. Politicians in India are also corrupt but the military never intervened there and let the process continue. As a result democracy is well-established there. And thanks to a strong educated middle-class (2/3 of their population), India I believe is now making real progress.
In nutshell I am not anti-fauji but anti-fauji involvement in politics.
waise mein wohi baatein repeat kar kar k thak gaya hoon.
Nukaray lagay cheetay: I agree with you army should not be involved in politics But you only see one side of picture. When Bhutto rigged elections in 1977 and when NS promoted zia butt as COAS plus prevented Musharraf from landing in Pakistan. Was it not politcal oppurtunism on their side???
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
BB tries to steal journalists’ show
Nausheen Yusuf
Islamabad-Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto used all her diplomatic tactics to use the journalist’s platform to make her own political gains. The journalists were in the middle of a Protest Camp organised by Rawalpindi Islamabad Union of Journalists (RIUJ) against media curbs put on them by PEMRA when the arrival of a white car, belonging to Pakistan People’s Party Chairperson Benazir Bhutto took everyone by shock. In flash of a second, the attention of both international and local media swung towards Benazir Bhutto. The purposeful journalist protest was suddenly transformed into a political public gathering. The outcries of “Freedom of Media” were engulfed by excited Peoples Party worker’s slogans of “Long Live Bhutto” and “ Prime Minister Benazir”.
Peoples Party workers pushed the protesting journalists aside and cameraman were rushing to capture the footage of Benazir addressing journalists to show that she is with them in their hour of need. All of a sudden, the headlines were “ Benazir expresses solidarity with the journalists” instead of “journalists protests against PEMRA brutalities” with flashes of BB’s photographs displayed across news websites. Such tactics are very important for political leaders to achieve political mileage and Benazir succeeded in doing so. She was in the centre of streams of cameras and senior representatives of all media organisations. So far no other leader of any political party or government has put up such a show. It became an exclusive event for her.
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
The drama, at least where its two most visible protagonists - Musharraf and Bhutto - have been concerned, has given the impression of a series of contrived set-piece performances designed to bolster the individual standing of each. As such it has appeared to Pakistani and Western diplomats as an increasingly cynical political game, divorced from the realities of a country being pulled apart by Islamist extremism, Musharraf’s dictatorial tendencies and the political opportunism of Bhutto.
‘It is all a game,’ said Kashif Abbasi, one of the blacked-out anchors from ARY One World TV in the scrum outside Bhutto’s house on Friday afternoon. ‘It’s all part of her negotiation.’
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
Nukaray lagay cheetay: I agree with you army should not be involved in politics But you only see one side of picture. When Bhutto rigged elections in 1977 and when NS promoted zia butt as COAS plus prevented Musharraf from landing in Pakistan. Was it not politcal oppurtunism on their side???
Well I was very young in 1977 so don't know much about that election but still there are other better ways of doing it. The army could have asked the Supreme Court to nullify the result, appoint a care-taker set-up and order fresh elections after 3 months instead of intervening (and Zia infact did promise elections within 90 days) And while I can't honestly say that Nawaz was morally right there, constitutionally he as the elected PM was well within his rights to sack anyone incl. Mush. Ofcourse endangering the lives of so many people aboard that plane was wrong. no Q asked
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
Well I was very young in 1977 so don't know much about that election but still there are other better ways of doing it. The army could have asked the Supreme Court to nullify the result, appoint a care-taker set-up and order fresh elections after 3 months instead of intervening (and Zia infact did promise elections within 90 days) And while I can't honestly say that Nawaz was morally right there, constitutionally he as the elected PM was well within his rights to sack anyone incl. Mush.
so don't you think even the elected leader should get punished for endangering so many innocent lives
In another words Mush is elected leader, remember referrendum and was later got vote of confidence from elected assembly so constitutionally he was within his rights to sack CJ???
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
Pakistan Muslim League (Q), also known as the King’s party, Farooq Leghari’s Millat Party, Prof Tahirul Qadri’s Pakistan Awami Tehrik and Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaaf have already announced support for the referendum. http://www.dawn.com/2002/04/04/top3.htm
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
I Know. I voted for Musharraf in 2002. You seemed to forget NS for his mistakes so what's wrong giving another chance to little Mushy
I would have accepted him as a civilian president if he did things in the following order
Removed his uniform
held fresh elections & then
sought approval from the new parliament
not like this chor tareeqa where he sought re-election while in wardi and is effectively being endorsed for 10 years by a parliament that was elected for 5 years in the first place. Is that not wrong?
Like Imran says if he thinks he's that popular why does n't he remove his uniform and go directly to the people.... yeh chor kee darhi mein tinka kyon
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
Aside my support for Musharraf. I want him to get elected as above because this is only legitimate way to become president But you see there was no gurantee that opposition would vote for him as they did in 2004 so that's why he wanted to play safe but he messed up big time. Good Luck to Mushy and Pakistan.
Re: Pakistan Drama - Is Musharraf-Bhutto conflict all it seems? - BBC
More and more doubts about BB’s drama acts.
But some observers have dismissed the apparent hostility between Ms Bhutto and Mr Musharraf as a charade, according to **Ayaz Amir, a columnist with the Dawn Newspaper in Pakistan. He said many people saw it as “shadow-boxing”, a staged conflict that would eventually result in a power-sharing deal - something he said Washington also backed.
** BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bhutto resumes protest campaign
However, many suspect that the deal remains secretly intact, and that Ms Bhutto’s mudslinging is simply designed to distance herself from Gen Musharraf’s autocratic actions. ****So far, they note, she has fought shy of all-out confrontation. The few hundred Bhutto supporters who gathered for a planned rally in Islamabad’s neighbouring city of Rawalpindi on Friday were a fraction of the half million or so that came to greet her in Karachi last month.“The rally from Lahore to Islamabad will be the litmus test as to whether she’s really serious about getting her people on the streets or not,” said one diplomat.
