Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

[kakaballi]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@Southie

Post 70 should be mandatory reading for all members.

That post applies to a civilized society where people care about laws and penal codes.

Section 302 of Pakistan Penal Code, if properly enforced, would discourage and eventually stop people taking law into their own hands.

[Southie]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

Kaka - analogy that comes to mind is walking and chewing gum at the same time. Remove laws that create an atmosphere of fear, places onus on accused to prove innocence, punishes accused for intent ( which can be impossible for accused to contest) and ruins lives by placing a hold os several months on accused persons lifexwhike they are on trial.

In parallel punish those who carry out such killing.

Does not have to be an either/or.

[kakaballi]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@Med911

… Ultimately, if the fish rots from the head, then that is where the solution should come from and start from as well.

A tree stand on its roots. You can cut the leaves and branches and repeal the law, but they would grow again in another form. I agree with you that this law is cited as an example outside Pakistan to demonstrate the intolerance of our society, but the roots of intolerance and lawlessness lie elsewhere.

I agree that repealing the law would demonstrate ‘intention’ of the authorities that they would not tolerate dictations from the extremist right, but the establishment and political elite simply do not have that intention nor the intention to improve general law and order.
**
I would risk joining any rally or demonstration against this blasphemy law, provided I am assured that someone murdering me in there will be promptly sent to hell by our courts as well. **

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

abuse by blasphemy law is caused due to corrupt system…

If the law is repealed majority will never accept it…

what will be the course of law after this law is repealed..when some one insults holy scripture or prophets…?

[diwana]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

If one asks for the law to be completely abolished, then that person is living in fool’s paradise.

One should struggle for the amendment in the law to change from death penalty to something of lesser degree of punishment if one is really concerned and adamant on that somehow, the law is promoting people to take the law in to their hands.

[kakaballi]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@Southie

1. Kaka - analogy that comes to mind is walking and chewing gum at the same time. Remove laws that create an atmosphere of fear, places onus on accused to prove innocence, punishes accused for intent ( which can be impossible for accused to contest) and ruins lives by placing a hold os several months on accused persons lifexwhike they are on trial.

** 2. In parallel punish those who carry out such killing.**

Does not have to be an either/or.

This is what I am saying. The word ‘parallel’ is key. 1 will not work unless 2 is done in parallel. No question of either/or. Do both, and it would be fantastic.

[diwana]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

This law does not promote lawlessness, since lawbreakers don’t care about the law to begin with.

In fact, **some of those who oppose this law are hell bent on lawlessness and bloodshed. **

[Southie]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@kaka yes that would be the best option.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@kakee

Why would a non-Muslim live in Pakistan when it isn’t even safe for Muslims?

Because they are insane.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@kakee

Why would a non-Muslim live in Pakistan when it isn’t even safe for Muslims?

On a serious note…If all the minorities think that way, it will be big catastrophe. Imagine if 2 to 3 million Hindus make beeline to Indian border. BTW it is already 10-20 a day now.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@pakistanimard

What the so-called liberals and ‘secularists’ miss out on the most is…that the changing/abolishing the law wouldn’t yield anything. because the law has never resulted in any punishments, and also law contains provisions protecting the minorities and falsely accused.

The problem is the illiteracy of the crowd and uncontrolled molvies who prey on those illiterates. The only solution to the problem is to make education wide spread and free for all, so that the poor are not forced to send their children to madrassa’s and all that jazz.

Unfortunately, no one seems to be fighting for the solution. On one hand we have lunatic illiterate molvies and their ‘army’ on the other hand we have westernized-wannabe angraiz-elitist-pseudo intellectuals, who have no idea of the ground realities and go to the same extreme of biggotry as the molvies in their opinions and view points.

Don’t bet on Education…that will make them all “Secularists” and “sane”, that is if they get the proper of education…not the Jihadi factory education.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@Shamraz_Khan

So, what you’re saying is that since we can’t do anything nothing should be done about it?

It will take one weapon (a potent one) away from the fundus’ hand.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@chaibiskut

People who oppose repealing the law are making morally dubious arguments. One, how can you claim that repealing a discriminatory piece of legislation won’t make a difference? How do you expect justice to prevail when there is no legal basis for it? Citing poor law enforcement is not a valid reason not to repeal the law. Two, isn’t it every Muslim’s duty to condemn and oppose that which distorts and manipulates Islam? The Quran states no earthly punishment for apostasy, let alone death or life imprisonment for simply defiling the Quran or defaming the Prophet. If you quote a ‘scholar’ who believes in capital punishment for blasphemy, I’ll counter with another who doesn’t. The only solution is to take it out altogether. You cannot be familiar with the actual wording of the law’s text and claim that it does not enable abuse and misuse. It’s so ridiculous it allows criminal prosecution on the basis of “implied offense.” How the hell do you take someone’s “implied offense” and prosecute it in court? More importantly, why should they be prosecuted in the first place? Simply blaming extremism on illiterate mobs won’t do, the laws that sanction and encourage this mentality must go because they politically and socially empower religious fringes.

The Pakistan Penal code prohibits blasphemy against any recognized religion, so why do you need sections in the criminal code that emphasize the protection of Islam? Plenty of countries have laws against ‘hate speech’ that are not worded ambiguously as to encourage abuse, unlike this one. What is the rationale for supporting Zia’s blasphemy law? You are a 97% Muslim majority living in a country that has Islam as it’s state religion, why do you feel like your religious sentiments need to be protected to such lengths? How is it ethical to empower the majority at the expense of an already vulnerable minority population? Why aren’t harsh punishments being emphasized for the vilification of minority religions, which the state is required to protect according to the Constitution?

ChaiBiskut, Well said…like garam chai and Crisp biscuit on a rainy day.

[KatDaddy]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@diwana

If one asks for the law to be completely abolished, then that person is living in fool’s paradise.

One should struggle for the amendment in the law to change from death penalty to something of lesser degree of punishment if one is really concerned and adamant on that somehow, the law is promoting people to take the law in to their hands.

Putting a person in jail even for a day on frivolous grounds, this law seem to support is against all norms of a civil society.

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@kakaballi

A tree stand on its roots. You can cut the leaves and branches and repeal the law, but they would grow again in another form. I agree with you that this law is cited as an example outside Pakistan to demonstrate the intolerance of our society, but the roots of intolerance and lawlessness lie elsewhere.

I agree that repealing the law would demonstrate ‘intention’ of the authorities that they would not tolerate dictations from the extremist right, but the establishment and political elite simply do not have that intention nor the intention to improve general law and order.
**
I would risk joining any rally or demonstration against this blasphemy law, provided I am assured that someone murdering me in there will be promptly sent to hell by our courts as well. **

So lets start from both ends and meet at the center… If that is possible. Lets cut the leaves and branches, but then lets also go at the roots. But once again, the only ones with the tools necessary to perform such a feat is the govt. So the govt must be forced to reform itself, and implement policy from the ground up.

Whether the authorities have the intention or not is a separate issue. Here we should assume they do for the sake of argument. Most solutions I think must come from the top. If we need to reform education, then that wil have to come from the top. If we want to regulate the madrases or promote tolerance through media, that too will have to come through policy from the top. If we want to control extremist organization and prevent their spread, that will also have to be from the top as no one has the resources or the muscle to do it from below. And if the courts need to be reformed, then that too comes from the top.

Either way, you will need to repeal this law to create an atmosphere in which tolerance can be promoted. It wil have to be done eventually, because no one will ever respect the credibility of the govt if the practice institutionalized discrimination and codify policies which promote irrational behavior like the blasphemy law. And this would only be a first step on a long process that includes other suggestions such as reforms at the bottom.

[maait]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@mercenary2k

Sad and pathetic.

Pakistan has become one of the most hostile places to be a non-muslim.

These laws need to repealed.

The fate of muslims is the same if they are accused of blasphemy.
And those mobs who target the accused are not following any law so changing the law won’t make any difference. It’s the mentality of people that needs to be changed.

[firenze]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@Captain1

You have to be mental retarded yourself to accuse a mentally disabled girl of ANY crime let alone blasphemy, as it can be seen from the article looks like someone was trying to find an excuse to kick them out, very sad.

one have to be mental retarded to accuse anyone of blasphemy. Unfortunately we become laughing stock for rest of the world.
Such freaked up people living here in Pakistan that i can’t explain.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@KatDaddy

Putting a person in jail even for a day on frivolous grounds, this law seem to support is against all norms of a civil society.

and if they don’t put accused in jail, the accused will get killed, what would the “society” do?

[diwana]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@KatDaddy

Putting a person in jail even for a day on frivolous grounds, this law seem to support is against all norms of a civil society.

All laws are broken at some point by people who do not respect laws, and unfortunately frivolous or false charges are not so uncommon either.

Hence ALL laws should be abolished?

[diwana]

Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy

@KatDaddy

Because they are insane.

Are you trying to answer why almost every person who is charged with blasphemy is insane?