Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
^a wrong action (or actions) doesn't allow other wrong actions to happen!! things that can be stopped/ avoid, should be stopped/avoided!! Not specifically talking about this girl because until now, haven't read about the issue in detail but here I am talking general!
Stop defending insanity. Its a book printed on paper & often sura and ayats are printed in textbooks and newspapers...most ending up in trash.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
Value it Please!! It helps us learning Quran..
Valuing it does not mean stomping on life of others!
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
What the so-called liberals and 'secularists' miss out on the most is......that the changing/abolishing the law wouldn't yield anything. because the law has never resulted in any punishments, and also law contains provisions protecting the minorities and falsely accused.
The problem is the illiteracy of the crowd and uncontrolled molvies who prey on those illiterates. The only solution to the problem is to make education wide spread and free for all, so that the poor are not forced to send their children to madrassa's and all that jazz.
Unfortunately, no one seems to be fighting for the solution. On one hand we have lunatic illiterate molvies and their 'army' on the other hand we have westernized-wannabe angraiz-elitist-pseudo intellectuals, who have no idea of the ground realities and go to the same extreme of biggotry as the molvies in their opinions and view points.
Serves her right....
...for being born a Christian..
...In Pakistan
...and a girl.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
What the so-called liberals and 'secularists' miss out on the most is......that the changing/abolishing the law wouldn't yield anything. because the law has never resulted in any punishments, and also law contains provisions protecting the minorities and falsely accused.
The problem is the illiteracy of the crowd and uncontrolled molvies who prey on those illiterates. The only solution to the problem is to make education wide spread and free for all, so that the poor are not forced to send their children to madrassa's and all that jazz.
Unfortunately, no one seems to be fighting for the solution. On one hand we have lunatiic illiterate molvies and their 'army' on the other hand we have westernized-wannabe angraiz-elitist-pseudo intellectuals, whizo have no idea of the ground realities and go to the same extremewe of biggotry as the molvies in their opinions and view points.
We could start deradicalizing the society by removing anything that could encourage extremism or promote in anyway discrimination, and victimisation on religious grounds. Let's see, can anyone think of a law, for example, that legitimizes such victimization? Hmmmm... Oh right its called the blasphemy law! The repeal of this idiotic law may not solve the problem overnight, but at least its a move in the right direction. Back towards rationality!
And of course its illiteracy that produces extremists! Because as we all know, All qaeda are all illiterate, as was the time square bomber. There has never been a educated extremist!
Oh and of course, anyone with half a brain must be a Pseudo westernised liberal! Not a real liberal, because brown people are never liberal, and of course only people in the west could possibly have a good logical idea, any paindoo desi with a good idea employing actual logic is obviously an "angraiz" wanna be.
Let's leave it to home grown brownies like you, with all your proven desi pind solutions to solve everything. Because if one thing is certain, home grown solutions have built our great Islamic Republic. The West with all its fancy ideas, and advances, and prosperity can shuv it where the sun don't shine!
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
How did the instance of this ONE other man lead you to make the jump to ALL?
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
What the so-called liberals and 'secularists' miss out on the most is......that the changing/abolishing the law wouldn't yield anything. because the law has never resulted in any punishments, and also law contains provisions protecting the minorities and falsely accused.
1) Of course it would b/c that would take away license to kill accused w/o due process of law by mullahs.
2) How many people have been punished for falsely accusing people for blasphemy?
Also, these laws are on books in all south Asian countries (laws were passed by during British Raj in 1860s and have nothing to do with Islam). Only Pakistan made blasphemy capital punished in 1980s & Zia gave mullahs licence to kill anyone especially minorities. And even people who are exonerated by courts are often killed by mullahs and their supporters b/c the law gives them sense of impunity from prosecution.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
1) Of course it would b/c that would take away license to kill accused w/o due process of law by mullahs. 2) How many people have been punished for falsely accusing people for blasphemy?
Also, these laws are on books in all south Asian countries (laws were passed by during British Raj in 1860s and have nothing to do with Islam). Only Pakistan made blasphemy capital punished in 1980s & Zia gave mullahs licence to kill anyone especially minorities. And even people who are exonerated by courts are often **killed by mullahs and their supporters **b/c the law gives them sense of impunity from prosecution.
So you do believe there is due process of law. Interesting.
A- Who punished anyone on false accusation?
1- Law
or
2- those who went against the law?
Zia gave mullahs to kill anyone? That is a news.
Not that I am a fan of Zia but your assessment is false. Zia did not give anyone any license to kill anyone in this respect.
B- Mullahs kill people? Which mullah did that?
C- Where did you find "sense of impunity" for anyone to go ahead and kill someone within the law?
Please quote the law. Does law say any civilian can take the law in to his/her hand and not be responsible for such a high crime?
Please read carefully what I wrote.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
^^^ Before Zia none of this was happening. And since you defend barbarism murder of this man is on hands of likes of you.
Pakistan’s blasphemy vigilantes kill exonerated man - CNN.com
Talahore, Pakistan (CNN) – Mohamed Imran had been accused, jailed, tried and cleared: if anything, society owed him a debt as a man wrongfully accused.
But his crime was blasphemy. He was meant to have said something derogatory about the prophet Mohammed, so in Pakistan justice worked a little differently.
Two weeks after he returned to his small patch of farmland on the rustic outskirts of Islamabad, his alleged crime caught up with him.
Two gunmen burst into the shoe shop where he was sat talking to a friend. Imran tried to duck, to seek cover behind the man next to him – terrified so greatly for his own life that he perhaps forgot about those around him.
But the gunmen found their target and Pakistan’s controversial blasphemy laws claimed another victim.
His brother Ikram told CNN: “When I saw him lying there, I felt the blood leave my body, and that I was now alone.”
When I saw him lying there, I felt the blood leave my body, and that I was now alone.
Now Ikram has only his brother’s unmarked grave to visit, next to the plot of land close to what was once the source of Mohamed Imran’s livelihood. This farmland no longer feeds his family, who have moved away to live under the charity of a friend. The threats remained.
We found his daughter, four-year old Kazma who knew her father was dead but somehow felt he would come back. His wife was in tears, but remarkably maintained that the blasphemy laws were important as they protect the Muslim faith. It was hard to tell whether she believed that or was speaking out of self-preservation.
Two high-profile politicians have this year been assassinated for their criticism of the blasphemy laws: Punjab governor Salman Taseer and minorities minister (and Christian) Shahbaz Bhatti.
Some observers see their deaths and the climate of rage around the blasphemy laws as symptomatic of a broader rise in fundamentalist tendencies in Pakistan.
Others say that religion is all many people have, given the levels of poverty and state dysfunction, and that they don’t like it being insulted. It’s reported that more than 30 of the hundreds of people convicted under the blasphemy laws have been killed by vigilantes. The state has yet to execute anyone for this crime.
The curious part about this blasphemy case – and many other such convictions and allegations under the controversial law – is that they do not specify what the accused is meant to have said.
The first complaint delivered to the police in 2009 refers to a conversation Imran allegedly had with another man in a cafe, but says the exact blasphemous phrase cannot be repeated as that too would be an act of blasphemy.
By the time we get to the court appearance earlier this year, the charge is clearer (but we won’t repeat it here, given the sensitivity of the matter). You are left wondering whether by this stage of the case many had already found reason to damn Imran.
All the same, this level of evidence was not enough for the judge, who released Imran. But it was enough for the gunmen.
We went into the nearby town to talk to clerics at the local mosque. Some accused these holy men of fueling the anger against Imran. Incidentally, Imran was a Shia, and hence a minority often targeted in Pakistan.
As soon as we got out of the car near the mosque and showed our cameras, tempers frayed. They didn’t care why we were there, they just saw us as outsiders, perhaps American spies.
We left promptly, ever more aware of the growing rage on Pakistan’s ordinary streets, fueled by generations of poverty, decades of what many see as government ineptitude and years of foreign intervention.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
I can't believe how thick some so-called educated people are on here.
There are two phases in Pakistan's history as far as this law is concerned: before that mardood zia tinkered with it and after that.
Now before the changes, people were not being accused, lynched, and killed. However, that's exactly what has been happening ever since the changes. Don't you think that this freakin' law, in its current form, might have something to do with that? Anything that zia, the hypocrite, touched has been cursed ever since.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
The things we do in the name of religion are disgusting.
However, I fail to see how blasphemy law was responsible for Imran’s death? He was tried and cleared. It is rather failure of our law enforcing authorities that such criminals roam around freely. I do not agree with parts of the law but how can that law be blamed if Imran was not convicted? It is rather failure of our criminal law, politicized and corrupt police and elitists protecting these murderers that we see such daring crimes in broad daylight.
These things happened pre-Zia as well, even in Mughal times. Yes, Zia-ul-Haq’s policies took Pakistani society towards much greater violence but we cannot put all blame on that guy and claim moral high ground. Many administrations have succeeded him, and nothing has been done to improve law and order in the country. Why just keep blaming something that happened a few decades ago? Why not do something about it!
If you want to, we can go centuries ago… a case in point:
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
^ Those who forget history are bound to repeat it - don't know who said it.
No harm in looking at the past to assign responsibility and learn from it IMO.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
^ Those who forget history are bound to repeat it - don't know who said it.
No harm in looking at the past to assign responsibility and learn from it IMO.
No harm, indeed. But blaming past for your present shortcomings and inabilities is not a great idea either.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
The things we do in the name of religion are disgusting.
However, I fail to see how blasphemy law was responsible for Imran's death? He was tried and cleared. It is rather failure of our law enforcing authorities that such criminals roam around freely.
Well, I find it amusing that people know what is happening is wrong, but they are unwilling to condemn it or push for changes. You may ask why? And the answer is simple...in the name of Islam (or any religion) you can do anything, including murder, and people would be able to justify it. To me, this is precisely what is wrong with holly books and divine laws...vagueness & unspeakable crimes in the name of God.
As for specific to the topic, I wish PPP had pushed for change in these laws after murder of Salman Taser. Sadly, they don't have courage to take on mullah lobby.
Btw, state cannot provide security to every person all the time. It is impossible, but he was killed by those who felt he must die even when he was cleared of alleged crime.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another.
Max Beerbohm
To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity.
Roy P. Basler
History consists of a series of accumulated imaginative inventions.
Voltaire
Clio, the muse of history, is as thoroughly infected with lies as a street whore with syphilis.
Schopenhauer
History is now strictly organized, powerfully disciplined, but it possesses only a modest educational value and even less conscious social purpose.
J. H. Plumb
Imagination plays too important a role in the writing of history, and what is imagination but the projection of the author's personality.
Pieter Geyl
History is a myth that men agree to believe.
Napoleon
History is the distillation of rumour.
Thomas Carlyle
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
Blasphemy Laws + Minorities + 2012 = Pakistan
Nuremberg Laws + Jews + 1938 = Nazi Germany
I see no difference.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
^ interesting -! Nice quotes - don't think I agree - but still very interesting.
@pm
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
..... As for specific to the topic, I wish PPP had pushed change these laws after murder of Salam Taser. Sadly, they don't have courage to take on mullah lobby....
My point is that changing the law is not going to work. It would be more like suspending mobile phone services from fear of terrorist attacks.
Even if the blasphemy law is repealed, would that change mentality? Why not apply the existing laws, 302 for example, on the people who killed Imran? I am just saying that it is not the blasphemy law that is the problem. The problem is our general attitude that laws do not apply to the rich and powerful. This has nothing to do with divine laws or holy books. Almost all religions and all 'worldly' laws would agree that a murderer of an innocent human being should be punished severely.
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
So said one of the biggest megalomaniacs to have ever Graced our humble planet.
By the way, why are you quoting from westerners? I thought any brownie who professed any interest for Western thought was in your words a “westernized-wannabe angraiz-elitist-pseudo intellectual”? 
Re: Pakistan disabled girl arrested for blasphemy
my bad