Pakistan is developing another advance jet fighter besides FC1. This project is a collaboration of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC). Various pieces of evidence indicate its finaly design is likely to feature a EF-2000 style retangular air intake (with splitting plate in the middle?), and a J-7E style double-delta wing may also be adopted. The aircraft will certainly be fitted with advanced avionics including: “glass” cockpit with color MFD, HMS, GPS/INS, air data computer, RWR, digital quadruplex FBW, digital fuel management system, new PD fire-control radar. A variety of newly developed air-to-air (e.g. AMR-1 active radar-homing AAM) and air-to-surface weapons (e.g. C-701 TV-guided ASM) are also expected to be carried under 11 hardpoints. Powered by a single AL-31F (or AL-31SM?) turbofan Engine. Some US military analysts believe that J-10 could become a serious challenge to F/A-18E in terms of maneuverability.
Musalman, where did you get this info from??
Musalmaan saab .. umm ... i soooo wanna believe this but i knwo better, this is an aircraft that the US says china is developing but in reality it's still in the concept stages and even if it were true pakistan has nothing to do with it. Even if we believe that this project is alive in china, it would take 15 - 20 years for it to be inducted in to the airforce, provided pakistan shows interest in it. I saw this photo somewhere and i'll try to find the link for it.
Other than that, Pakistan is pushing for china to start showing interest in the FC-1, whose first prototype hasn't even rolled out yet. I think pakistan had a 25% share in the aircraft but chinese aresaid to be more interested in the J-8 and SU27 licensed production that they accquired from the USSR.
So the reality is quite harsh guys, pakistan currently has very little capital to accquire 3rd or 4th generation aircraft, let alone develop them indegenously.
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
http://www.concentric.net/~Jetfight
Ok this is a really neat site if you guys are interested. Other than that i forgot to add, J-10 is supposedly the name given to the aircraft technology the chinese have acquired from Israel’s dumped Lavi project, which in turn was based on f-16 technology ..
So guys interested in this topic lets get together and start a new thread.
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
Any good pak military site..
Pakistan may go for this aircraft rather then FC1, because Chinese airforce is more interested in this one rather then FC1. In that case funding for this one will be a priority then FC1, that is why PAF may choose this one a more advanced fighter over FC-1 as this has PLAAF’s full support.
Please follow the source link: http://www.concentric.net/~Jetfight/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm
http://wenxuecity.simplenet.com//military/photo/china/air-force/Fighter/Fighter.htm
Ok here you go, everything you need to know about the fighters china has acquired or is in the process of developing :>
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
The source link suggest that PAF may be more interested in J-10 because it has the blessing of Chinese Airforce. Pakistan Aeronotical Complex (PAC) may take 20% to 40%
Stake in this project.
Yes it does take some amount of capital to develop an advance fighter aircraft, but these days there are lots of tools to cut the cost down. I am my self an Aerospace Engineer and I have worked on some advance concepts of Airfoil designs. For example the use of CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) should cut a lot of time and money, also advance tools in ROTOR DYNAMICS are also avaliable, so we do not have to depend on other suppliers for engines, we should be able to develop our own Turbo Jet engine. Iran has already designed a Turbo Fan type Jet engine, perhaps we should talk to Iran, and make a joint project out of it. Lots of other tools are there we have to have will to do it. Allah(SWT) will help us too if we wake up and finally start thinking and getting our act straight. All in all I estimate about 1.5 to 2 Billion Dollars of R&D. Then about 25 to 45 million dollars (if made as a joint venture Pakistan and China) a piece for a very advance 3rd or 4th generation Aircraft. Pakistan should ask other muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE etc. for the necessary cash to develop a joint project perhaps start a Islamic coalition in defence matters.
[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 05, 2000).]
Musalmaan,
I agree that Pakistan should spend more ofit's meger resources on R&D but the problem i forsee with that is the same with the indian LCA, the time it takes to develop a solid platform something much better is available off the shelf, take the LAVI for example, it was all but developed by the IAI but was salvaged for the f-16s. Now Pakistan does have the necessary expertise AT PAC Kamra but i think as far as Engine development and avionics is concerned pakistan is severly lagging.
What i always wanted to know, and your opinion would be appreciated is, what is the feasability of allocating more resources to an affective Missle defence program Sur-Air? and for offensive purposes rely more of S-S conventional missles. Pakistan , courtesy Abdul Kadeer Khan sahib, already has the necessary knowhow in that area ....
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
[This message has been edited by Wadi (edited November 05, 2000).]
Wadi,
I understand what you are saying, putting resources in R&D should become some type of priority for Pakistan, because we spend lots of money to buy the hardware, which is marked up 50 to 100 times its original cost by the selling company/country. The way I think R&D should be done is to project the World air power lets say for next 50 years, and then start R&D according to that, in my opinion the reason our R&D is partially not in the right direction is we try to develop projects which will some how match our immediately perceived threat in very short period of time. Take FC1 for example, there has been non ending changes and upgrades forever, this is because we see some thing from present day point of view, then we try to develop it and by the time we are half or three quarter way done with the modification it is already obsolete. This is a paradigm, and we need to shift it, by doing R&D on advance projects. In my opinion, if funds allow, we should run a parallel R&D program. One which takes care of our needs in immediate or the needs for near future. One which is very advance and will shift the paradigm altogether. Not only labs and government agencies should be working, universities and colleges should also be involved in this R&D to figure out the theory and science, then make the necessary science as a platform to develop technology.
Surface to Air Missile defense program: I agree we have to have some kind of missile defense program, as for a surface to air missile defense program against incoming ballistic missile through kill vehicles is a very complex matter, first of all we have to have a very robust sensing and detection methods of incoming missiles. Land based radar systems is only a partial answer to the problem. To top it all designing a kill vehicle which has to be guided to a very fast moving target is a challenge by itself. Guidance system without true global positioning methods is nothing but waste of money along with designing such a kill vehicle itself. Therefore I think it is very inefficient.
Missile/Arial defense system of my choice: Pakistan/Islamic world should pay more concentration on High Energy Physics (High Energy Laser Beams) and access to Space. We would still need a robust sensing detection method for the incoming missiles and even aircrafts. Land based radar system should be supplemented with sensing hardware in space geo stationary orbits. That will give us a robust sensing and detection platform. Then to begin with we can have high intensity laser beams installed close to our precious assets, like Labs and important manufacturing facilities. As soon as hostile vehicle is targeted we will shoot it down with High energy laser beams. Advantages, laser being light particles, will be travelling at the speed of light towards comparatively much much slower objects. This wouldn’t require, designing kill vehicles which in terms of vehicle itself and then guidance systems for the vehicle, a major technological challenge, besides that it can never be as efficient as a laser beams. Apart from land based high-energy lasers, we can also fit them into special purpose aircraft (may be 747), which in conjunction with AWACS will be flying in wartime and be shooting enemy vehicles entering our airspace. This will be somewhat safer because, even if the enemy crafts are equipped with BVR (beyond visual range) type weapon systems it would not effect the flying laser crafts. This will act as surface to air as well as missile defense needs for us.
Offensive weapons: I think we need to work on ICBM’s as well as Cruise missiles, very importantly we must have some kind of global positioning system to guide our vehicles. We do not have that yet. Long range ballistic missile are only strategic weapons, to win battles we must have tactical weapons. So advance aircrafts and cruise missiles should be a must weapons in our inventory.
All of the above should be done in collaboration with other Islamic Countries. Every body pitches in and the results will be made useful to the entire Islamic Ummah.
http://www.timesofindia.com/080600/08worl13.htm
While we are on the subject..
Yes i agree with you. The Nationalists would ask “why should muslims unite and jepordize their national identity?”. It’s 'cause nationalism has no place in Islam ( ME THINX ).
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
Hmmmmm…very very nice discussion for a change…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Okie the site says that the J-10 is being developed based on an F-16 given to china by pakistan…
Now I dont know about about the J-10…but the F-16s which have been written off from pakistans fleet…the stories about 1 of em are very dodgy…I did research on the topic (mainly trying to get info out of PAF pilots I know
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
)…and it does look like that one was given to china…
Secondly…Pak and china are developing “some” fighter…and PAF wanted 2 pilot and engineers to go through Test Pilot training at National Test Pilot Training School (NTPS) in the US. but the state dept didnt give visas to them…then they turned to Britain branch of NTPS…they were refused again…and THEN they tries south africa (???
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif
test pilots in south africa!!!) but it was still a NO GO…and NOW - like as in these days really - some are training in china… and two of them are doing some test flying there…so there is some activity going on… and its very serious…cuz both the pilots test flying these days are of the best in the LOT (F-16s) and graduates from Combat Commanders School (CCS sargodha)… Like i know their names and all the details…but dont know what they are doing, I mean what they are flying or what they ARENT flying…this J-10…I have heard the name for the first time…I would think of something on the looks of F-16 Excel …like the LAVY is based on it and the chinese have the lavy…they supposidly have an F-16 from us…our F-16 pilots are flying the thingie (or atleast helping out cuz they have been there for a couple of months)…SO i would go for something very close to F-16s Airframe with chinese engine and avionics…Can anyone fill in the details…???
ME ME ME!!!
fuee.tripod.com
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http://144.132.53.121/recent?0
picture
Yes sir you are right, the J-10 is based on the LAVI which was photographed in Chinese hangars by american spy sattelites and there was a big row about why the israelies loaned them the Lavi, .. as u said it's based on the F-16 but is a much more capabale platform overall. However, it's the first time i've heard from musalmaan that Pakistan is involved in the project.
As far as America is concerned, the days of it helping pakistan are all but over. Pakistan was about to acquire the Swedish Grippen but the deal didn't materialize 'cause the americans didn't give export license for the Engine . Yes saab uses an american engine. I think it's the same one used in the f-16 .. maybe muslmaan can explain in detail.
As far as the training of pakistani pilots is concerned i heard that it was taking place in turkey.
South Africa has long been an airforce power, it's modifications of Mirage 3 and 5 aircraft have been higly successful, maybe that is why pakistani pilots are there....
I say modify the Mirage 3s and 5s to be onpar with the 2000s !!!
hahhaahj/k
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
[This message has been edited by Wadi (edited November 07, 2000).]
Here are some more project related pictures:
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/2/J-10-2.jpg
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/2/J-10-4.gif
Both pictures seems to me are SU-27, note Delta wing and Canard wing are some of the features of J-10.
[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 07, 2000).]
Cool pics guys!
Some more pictures of the actual project:
Okay Musalman,now these last two I have seen for the first time.Where did u get them.url?
And yet more pictures:
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/2/J-10-004.jpg
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/2/J-10-005.jpg
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/2/J-10-006.jpg
There are more pictures follow the link:
http://wenxuecity.simplenet.com//military/photo/china/air-force/Fighter/Fighter.htm