Pakistan constitution say the Ahmadyya are Khafir. Now according to Quran Sura 109 Ayat 6 Al-Kafirun which say
Unto you your religion, and uto me my religion
Now according to above Ayat who are we to say anyone that he is khafir or not. Please someone with knowlege would guid me.
Please go to religion section if you want to discuss if Mirzais are not kafir.
This is not the place for it.
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
I am not dicussing religion I do not care if someone is Kafir or not. I am discussing Pakistan Consitution.
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
^ In Sura Kafirun:
[quote]
Unto you your religion, and uto me my religion
[/quote]
do you know who is this party addressed as "you"? Yes its "kafirun", so one party is "Muslim" and the other is "Kafir".
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
Kinnare atleaast do a little Research before posting.
TakeCare
Champ
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
But are not we all Kafir. because I have seen ulema calling each other Kafirs. Like shia, sunni, Aga Khani, Dawood Bhora, Alvi we are all Kafirs. So how can our consitution say other person Kafir when we all are kafirs
Kinnare atleaast do a little Research before posting.
TakeCare Champ
can you explain your self my posting is base on ignorance because I would like gain Knowledge.
But are not we all Kafir. because I have seen ulema calling each other Kafirs. Like shia, sunni, Aga Khani, Dawood Bhora, Alvi we are all Kafirs. So how can our consitution say other person Kafir when we all are kafirs
In case of Ahmadis both Shias and Sunnis (which makeup more than 90% of Pakistan) consider them non-Muslims, hence the reflection in constitution.
But are not we all Kafir. because I have seen ulema calling each other Kafirs. Like shia, sunni, Aga Khani, Dawood Bhora, Alvi we are all Kafirs. So how can our consitution say other person Kafir when we all are kafirs
may be bcoz constition is not a person and doe not care?
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
[quote]
But are not we all Kafir. because I have seen ulema calling each other Kafirs. Like shia, sunni, Aga Khani, Dawood Bhora, Alvi we are all Kafirs. So how can our consitution say other person Kafir when we all are kafirs
[/quote]
That is Y i said Do atlest a little Research, I dont Recall ever Calling my self as Sunih, or Ahle-hadith etc etc, i always called my self as a Muslim, if you think you are a Muslim & you fulfill the Principals of Islam & dont go against Allah & his Prophet, If you Do as Said in Quran & Hadith, then Y do you care who says anything about you, you only care when you have a doubt in yourself that what you are doing is not right , thus you doubt your own faith & still say y people say we are not Muslims,
Well not only people but you speak for your own self.
TakeCare
Champ
But are not we all Kafir. because I have seen ulema calling each other Kafirs. Like shia, sunni, Aga Khani, Dawood Bhora, Alvi we are all Kafirs. So how can our consitution say other person Kafir when we all are kafirs
Kinnare Sahib it was a political/democratic decision by the National Assembly after the Ahmedi Leader himself called all others Non-Believers: see for yourself-
Finally, when Mirza Nasir stated the comment that “I believe Mirza Qadiyani is a prophet of Allah (the glorified) and he who does not have this belief I consider him a disbeliever.” It was then that all the assembly unanimously declared the Qadiyanis a minority. It also must be noted that when an agreement is made not by the majority but by the entire assembly then that agreement is considered a part of the law. The major reason this agreement was reached was due to the comment of Mirza Nasir himself who said that he who does not believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet is amongst the non-believers.
kinnare the simple answer to u is that Qadyanis are kafir and not Muslims. So why constitution should accept them as Muslims?
There are less than 0.0001% ulmas of sunnis and shias that will use word "kafir" for each other. Even that ulmas will not say it if they are talking to the person of opposite sect. So stop this old propaganda to prove urself true.
Regards
Lord
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
It is not very old history.It was a democratic move.1974 was the year when whole national assembly worked as a commitee.They gave opportunity to all to say and defend and then they decieded, It is real Islamic approach and Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was the leader of the house.
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
Who cares .....
See a country that has severe economical problems, sever social problems, severe education problems, severe power shortages and the lack of security and rule of Law and to top it off bearded animals running around and beheading foreigners + an Ally who bombard u every other day with unmanned planes ...... did i missed something
The only good news out of this horror is "soon all Pakistani will have Shariah and thus peace Malakand Style" ;)
So wait and enjoy once applied to the PPL next to u
kinnare the simple answer to u is that Qadyanis are kafir and not Muslims. So why constitution should accept them as Muslims?
There are less than 0.0001% ulmas of sunnis and shias that will use word "kafir" for each other. Even that ulmas will not say it if they are talking to the person of opposite sect. So stop this old propaganda to prove urself true.
Regards Lord
It is other way round 99.99% of ulmas do say that each other Kafir. Only people I have never heard saying other Kafir are Ismaili. my question is very simple why one muslim should call other muslim or any one kafir.
It is other way round 99.99% of ulmas do say that each other Kafir. Only people I have never heard saying other Kafir are Ismaili. my question is very simple why one muslim should call other muslim or any one kafir.
Because if they don't do it then their subconcious will kill them, after fulfiling this "duty" their subconcious leaves them alone and they resort to do whatever they wish to do (lies, cheat, fraud, dacoity, drinking, dancing etc.)
Re: Pakistan Consittution against Islam
[quote]
It is other way round 99.99% of ulmas do say that each other Kafir. Only people I have never heard saying other Kafir are Ismaili. my question is very simple why one muslim should call other muslim or any one kafir.
[/quote]
You argument about 99.99% didnt make any sort of sence, what lord said was that only , 0.0001% of gali muhilla Ulema, say each other Kafir, Any one who knows what Islam is Will never say anyone Kafir who fuflills the Principals of Islam.
The Answer to your Question is also Very Simple, We can call anyone Kafir who we can see that , he is not Accepting the Hazarat Muhammad(SAW) as te last Prophet, What Proof Else do you need?
TakeCare
Champ
kinnare, just words are not enough to prove urself true. Continue saying that sunnis and shias say each other kafir. Who will accept ur illogical sentence. The difference between these sects is not about basic principles. Its only about the interpretations. All Islamic sects have firm belief on basic principles of Islam. Now if u want the constitution to be changed in a way that we call non-muslim a muslim, then I doubt ur sense of logic.
Go and ask any Scholor of Muslims sect about Qadyani and u will get ur answer.
Qadyanis should be given rights as given to minorities, but accepting them as muslims is just as we accepting a christian as muslim. Moreover if u know that u r right in ur belief and we are wrong then why u want us to say u muslim. U must have firm belief in ur religion. Whatever others say just ignore it.
Regards
Lord