Its a great feeling to have won a test against India. Theres nothing like it, especially in front of your home crowd who have expected so much from the team.
I just have this feeling though that pakistan batting’s ability (or lack of) to play a new ball on seaming wickets has been somewhat covered up by the fact that pak won this game.
When the conditions are right i.e. new ball + early morning moisture + green top… we were down 39/6. Are our batsmen really up to the task of surviving in these conditions?
Akmal and Razzak played brilliantly to bail us out, no doubt about that. And then in the 2nd innings we posted a huge total though it was evident that the wicket seemed to have eased out just a little bit. And when Irfan Pathan didnt get any assistance from the wicket he became toothless. But say if Mohammad Asif or Shoaib Akhtar were bowling to us at that time, would we have survived that long?
My point is the scores we made were against a pop gun attack (as geoffery boycott put it). When we go abroad to England and Australia, are we adequately prepared to face their swing bowlers on conditions that seem to stay morning-like all day long?
Once again, it seems like I am the only one still supporting the idea of hiring neutral curators for International Cricket. Doesn't seem like a formidable idea to anyone else, so I will move on...
That is a really good question to ask. I am sure most of us thought about it at one time (well, especially at the conclusion of first day of third test match), and this type of query definitely seeks an answer to it. My personal opinion on this matter is, if we do start creating (and maintaining) green-top surfaces over the course of next year (and knowing that even though the tracks will be almost dead by the end of Day Two-Start of Day Three), our batsman will gain more experience as time goes along, and should be able to adjust themselves better in conditions when the pitch is expected to remain in its infancy all throughout the duration of the game. It is pitches like these which will provide a major breakthrough in our batting line-up, as we will certainly come to witness the key areas of our batting 'strength' and our potential to survive in such circumstances.
As long as we are determined to play on 'FAST AND BOUNCY' (another term for 'flat') surfaces, outside conditions will always play a gigantic factor in ripping apart our weaknesses, one by one, but when we will start playing on tracks like the one we recently played on, it is destined to propogate our batting in greater numbers, as we will become familiar with the 'outside world'.
Although, yes, I completely understand there is a simple-enough reason for exploiting a home advantage.
I agree with Captain Lota. I think Pak batting was totally submerged in hot water when the ball was new and swinging off the pitch in the first innings. Technically speaking, Younis Khan and Butt didn't have a clue of how to play the ball.
I don't think that Pak is not looking towards the tour of Eng in summer of 06 because we have Bob Woolmer and he knows the English pitches better than anyone else. I am sure that he must be working on the techniques esp. of Younis Khan and youngsters like Butt and Faisal Iqbal to how to play on green tops.
Apart from that, Pak bowling is stronger and even getting better by the inclusions of seemers like Mohammad Asif and Rana Naved. Remember when Asif uprooted Tendulkar's stumps, Dean Jones said he is waiting for Asif to be bowling in England. So, yea, Pak has good prospects for bowling no doubt, but they need to look at the batting options esp. on green tops. But nevertheless, this team combination is doing great and I am sure that they will overcome any mishaps they make playing on green tops soon.
Also, KUDOS to Pak fans as Pak did a fantastic job of winning the test game and hopefully do the same for ODIs. Also, Catain Lota always have interesting points and this is the first time of mine to really get myself in the gupshup forum and I enjoy the threads deeply..
Any team can collapse on a day. Australian top-order can do that too (unfortunately not too often). I wouldn't suggest taking 3rd test first day collapse to hang too heavily against our team.
Playing in Pakistan, unfortunately, is very different than playing in Aus and Eng. We all know that. After the disaster of a test series in Australia, the subsequent ODI's showed our team to be coping well with the same Aussie conditions. It takes time for a team to settle down. Expect to see some embarassing results when Pak team plays warm up games at the start of their British summer tour.
If you go back and check the score cards from the disastrous Aussie tour (tests only), you can see a marked improvement with each test. Younis, Yousaf, Butt, Asim all had some decent innings. The problem was consistency. The team was pretty much routed in tests. Came back strong in ODIs, as they had settled into the Aussie conditions.
Even back in '01 when Pakistan toured England under Waqar, Younis played a decent knock in the second test that Pakistan won. The first test Pakistan lost badly (by an innings) because the team had not adopted to the conditions.
Point is, its not that our batsmen can't play in UK/Australia. Its just that it takes time for anyone to get adjusted to the seaming conditions and bouncy pitches. Once they adjust and settle down, they are as good as any. With Woolmer at the helm, hope is, that there will be more tricks up his sleeve to prepare the "boyz" for British conditions and to adapt quickly. Its a full series, so the team has time to gel again and make it an interesting contest. Our bowlers are very capable and will shine in England, Insha Allah. Pakistan has beaten England in England before. And even in very trying circumstances of team morale (remember the disjointed outfit that went under Miandad in '92 that rode the brilliance of 2 W's?). So its very much doable. And with this team, with its fighting spirit and unified approach, the prospects are very good for a successful campaign.
I mean, I agree with all the "hopes and dreams" of experiencing Pakistani Team playing a blasting cricket outside of the sub-continent, but the fact remains that our batsmen are unable to adjust themselves quickly in extreme conditions, and in a formidable manner at that. To actually implement an idea in our sub-continent that prepares green-top pitches for the home series (which, in turn, would provide a huge advantage in an away series as well), what gives?
^ I just don't think we are capable of it. And not just because we don't want it. Even with the best fast bowling attack at one time (IK, WA, WY), we couldn't. Unless I see any evidence to suggest that we can actually make pitches that offer consistent bounce and off-the-ground fast seam movement, I still chalk it up as wishful thinking. Alternative is to adapt quickly to any world conditions. Be it Aus, Brit, SA or Windies. All are different.
In Pakistan/India we mostly get Dusty, Hard or Green pitches. The first two are batsmen paradise, they are slow and favor the spinners. The Green pitches are in between, they help the bowlers in the begning but nothing much after.
The thing about New Zeland and Engalnd is that due to their humid and/or wet weather conditions the bowl swings in the air, thus making it difficult for the batsmen to play any short.
Numerous research are done on pitches and how they are made but I haven't come across any article or research that tells us how a pitch would turn out and who would benefit from it?
Should there be standard for pitches?
Lastly, the Englishmen came and failed to 'adopt' to our conditions, I am pretty sure we'll go through the 'adopting period' too. Although as some of our players play county cricket, we may have some advantage.
Would someone tell me which team does NOT struggle in bowling friendly conditions? Even australians were all at sea against English attack in England and they collapsed not once, not twice, not thrice but more than that. England, South Africans, West Indies all succumb in bowling friendly conditions and i am not even gonna mention subcontinent teams.
However we need to make sure that we survive long enough to make competent scores. For that players like Younis Khan and Butt need to be extra vigilant because they form the top order.
ya true...the victory has just papered over the apparent cracks of a 39/6...but then again it can be argued that u dont get some 1 getting a hatrick in the 1st over everyday...and as long as THE TOWEROF INZ is there...i think we'll be pretty alrite...theyve done well in england before...gettin to the finals in the WC...razzaq was great at 1-down back then.,..jus need some1 to stone wall and see of the new cherry
Is this near to impossible to make green top practice pitches where we can held atleast 2 weeks camp before touring Eng, SA and Austrailia??????
Why we want our players to remain phattoo and king of flat pitches! If from the current crop Yk MY Malik and Salman have problems with seaming wickets then let this be happen and make them play on these pitches, get the technique and mindset correct of our batting line.
The point is that india also plays on such pitches as it helps their bowlers (infact one time the pitch was so “good” that the umpire had to call off the match on the account that not only kumble’s ball was turning very sharp but actually dust was flying off in the air!!! ).
It just occurred to me, why do we criticise batsmen from Asian countries only for being “flat track bullies”? How many batsmen from SA, NZ, Aus come to our countries and adapt quickly and blast our bowling? Its difficult for them to adapt to condition and perform as brilliantly too, no?
I do agree with Ehsan bhai that we shouldn’t read too much into 39/6, the credit should also goto Irfan who was able to extract good use from the pitch, it was same bowler in next overs too and conditions were also not very different but couldn’t do the same :halo:
^ but shall we keep our eyes shut from the known vulnerablity of our batsmen? If we are targetting to become No. 1 team, we need to beat Ausies, England and Saffies in their backyard. And for that we need lively and bouncy pitches to practice on. Atleast Rashid Latif has shown courage to not only create some in his academy but also has sent clay samples and has plan to bring the technology and expert from WACA to teach local curator on pitch creation process.
^ Aussies have been number 1 for a very long time, but only on their last visit they were able to beat India in India :), yes we should prepare our batsmen/bowlers to be able to perform anywhere in the world :k:
Actually, good teams coming to the sub-continent have done pretty well in batting. England made a lot of runs in Pakistan (that Shoaib Akhtar blasted them out anyway says more about Akhtar than England's batting deficiencies). South Africa made some decent scores in Pakistan a couple of years back. Australia has always done well in India (unless India has a woefully underprepared wicket). Mark Taylor made 334 not out in Pakistan back in 1998. The point is that those who are used to playing in seaming conditions find it easy to 'adapt' to the flat wickets in subcontinent, while the reverse isn't true.
Pakistani batsmen have a very hard time generally in Australia and especially on hard and bouncy Perth. Teams that are used to playing in such conditions have always done better... South Africa, England, West Indies always make decent scores on these wickets.
^ Don't forget that cricket is a game of both batsmen and bowlers. Gora bowlers struggle really badly on sub-continent pitches. Should we then suggest that gora teams should prepared flat and dusty wickets to adapt their bowlers to the conditions in sub-continent?
Point is, I completely agree that all good batsmen should score in all types of playing conditions. However, the differences in seaming conditions, wetness in the air, seam off the pitch etc are so great that realistically our best hope is that whereever the team goes, the players are competent enough to adapt quickly. That they eventually adapt, more or less, is proven. How quickly they can do it, is the real question. Almost all teams, including Australia, struggle in the warm up matches in Britain. Though arguably, both England and Australia have fast and bouncy pitches. The great team of West Indies of '70s would beat every team all over the world, despite not trying to replicate all kinds of cricketing conditions in islands of West Indies.
