Pakistan Army Generals

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

[quote=qasim1980]
Khan sahib, army ki corruption chhupi hoti hai, zahir nahin hoti. Jabkeh doosrey mehkamon ki corruption zahir hoti hai. Lahore Defence main aik general pakra gaya jis ke account se Rs. 3.5 billion baramd huye. HAI KISI AUR MEHKAMEY MAIN ITNI BARI CORRUPTION AUR WOH BHI SIRF AIK AADMI SE.

*Uss ka naam pata tu batao k wo kon tha. Aap tu aisey keh reh hein k wo hijamat karwata hua pakra gaya aur uss k bojey say 3.5 billion rupees baraamad huey. If u have the proof report him to NAB. *

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Mian Sahib ki khakummat ko waqt hi kitna mila tha, sirf 2 saal, 2 saal main kya hota hai, kisi mulk ki khalat ko badalney ke liye mahreen-e-muaashiyaat ke mutabiq 25 saal chahyein. Yahan kisi aik ki cuorruption ho to koi bataye, hamare aik janney waley army main Major hain, Defence Phase 5 main unhon ne 7 plot allot karwaye hain, aik Major aur 7 plot!

Is waqt F/X reserves jitney bhi hain woh sirf is wajah se hain ke IMF aur World Bank ne apney karzon ki iqsaat rok rakhi hain, jis din un ki kistein jari ho gayein, aik Dollar bhi nahin rahey ga KOMI KHAZANEY main.

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Shoot the ***** and send his body to NAB for official burial**

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Zia was also a much corrupt general. Akhtar Abdur Rehman was his right hand, Ojri Camp Rawalpindi ko blast karna bhi iisi SPOOT ka kaam tha. Drug chars aur klashankof ko Pakistan ki pehchan bhi Zia hi ne banaya tha. All Pakistan Highway Authority ke record main aaj bhi yeh baat shamil hai ke Zia ke 11 saal main Pakistan main 1 bhi sark nahin bani thi.

To rule on a country, this is not a job of army officer.

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

aap kyun jazbati hotey hain, aik ko le ker kyun bhaith gaye hain.

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Corrupt politicians thats wat i hear a lot here..
but can somebody count the time politicians were in power.. out of 50-60 years of pakistan
its just the army ppl who think they are 'mamay' of everything that happens in pakistan.
with the introduction of Gen.Mushy a new era has been ushered where its a Army republic of pakistan.
I remember a text from shahab nama abt so many governments who wanted to see pak army involved in politics/business/gvt running so that they could become less professional in their own domain thus compromising the country security.thats wat is happening now..
and these dumb asses don;t understand it..

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

sorry, india is not just growing because of democracy, the democratic govts pursued the right policies and that is why it is growing, it has internal stability thats why it is growng and it has people who are fociused on education and skills development and that is why its growing. I mean china is no india in terms of democratic fredom but that has grown too. Factors are the right policies by the govt, education, stability etc.

Now if our idiots can go to school and study and move away from running on streets like a bunch of idiots and start burning tires, shooting ppl and burning buildings, maybe we would be considered safe enough to serve as offshore/outsource partners, as well as a good place for international investment.

secondly, why are other countries not ruled by military, look at their leadership. I will not say that there is no corruption, but not at te expense of the country, kick backs, this and that takes place everywhere, but none of the countries you mention were even close to being on top of the list for corruption, which was an accomplisment of our democratic elected czars

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Modern democracy is in condradiction with Muslims - especially arabs and muslims who have their roots with arabs - like Pakistanis and Afghans! Hardly there are few muslims deomcratic countries!

Muslims by nature want to rule the world! This is the basic difference between Muslims and followers of other religions.

Muslims and democracy can not go side by side!

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Qasim always do the carpet bombing, destroying everything goo or bad. nice post you have started Qasim

Truth lies somewhere in the middle and it lies somewhere in the middle of the post as well, (not in sequence but in stand)

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

:smack: :frusty:

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Aik General jis ka rank chaprasi key barabar hai!?

Dil to chahta hai bohat kuch bolon, magar bolon to kia bolon...

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

In China before Mau party (communists) took over, Mau saw government officials taking some farmers (peasants) for punishment. Mau started thinking that how is it possible that these officials (who were few) are taking these farmers for punishment and farmers can do nothing.

He pondered and then realised that, certainly, if these farmers were stronger then those officials, officials could not have managed to take them. Thus, it struck to Mau and he made statement that ‘Power comes from the barrel of a gun’.

Actually, anywhere in the world, power of ruler depends on the power that ruler possess in the country. If Army is ruling the country, they are ruling because no other power in the country is more powerful at the moment, then the army.

We should remember that:

Politicians get power based on their popularity amongst the population. If they are popular amongst masses, they gain popularity amongst army too, as people in the army are also part of population. That popularity safeguards them from army generals acting against them.

**Army generals **initially get power from the army they command. They can only overtake a country if the politician in power is not popular enough to challenge that takeover. No army general can takeover a country for personal reasons. If a general would try to overtake a popular political government, army would revolt.

Thus, army only manage to takeover a country when the politicians in power are not doing their job. This happens when politicians in power are corrupts, incompetents and are spreading nepotism. Well, whatever the reasons, takeover happens when people (and army) are not behind politicians and are fed up with them.

As for Nawaz Shareef and BaiNazeer, they and their party collectively ruled for 11 years and during those time, both showed they were mega corrupts, incompetents and full of nepotism. Army could have taken over anytime, but they did not. If army allowed them to stay in power for 11 years collectively, it was because no one in the army wanted to kick them.

Even army (Musharraf) would not have taken over Pakistan if Nawaz kept himself within the law. To try to stop commercial aircraft of a national airline (PIA) carrying Musharraf from landing in Pakistan was asking for takeover. Army reacted and Nawaz was out.

What Nawaz Shareef did, not even president of USA could do, that try to stop a aircraft of an American commercial airline to land in USA and thus risk the life of all on the aircraft, just because he does not like a person on the aircraft.

Well, even sacking army chief, Gen Karamat or trying to sack Gen Musharraf was a provocation, that no politician in the world would do. Pakistan is not Nawaz colony nor Nawaz is King of Pakistan that Nawaz as prime minister can sack someone just because he does not like that person. It seems Nawaz became lunatic assuming that he became God in Pakistan. [Pakistan may ussay vazarat kiya mili, Nawaz samjhnay laga kay woh Khuda ban giya hay].

Even prime minister of UK could not do that. He cannot sack a lowest rank army personal or even a lowest government servant, just because he does not like that person.

[Nawaz is lucky to be alive. If I was in place of Musharraf or if there was some other person, Nawaz would have met his creator before his father. When Nawaz tried to get Musharraf killed, as that would have happened because plane would have crashed if army did not acted, it is surprising why Musharraf did not do the same to Nawaz (get him legally killed).

Just imagine that Bhutto did not even threatened Zia life or tried to sack Zia, but based on assumptions that Bhutto was having some bad feeling for Zia, Zia got him legally hanged].

Regardless, what I want to say is that, for Pakistan to have sustainable democracy, we need new political faces that have no corrupt background, are honest, competent, above nepotism [they are not aqarba parver, be it on the basis of brotherhood (bradri), provincialism (subayeet), party loyalty or personal relationship], and are willing to serve the country intelligently, humbly and selflessly. Unfortunately, I do not see any politicians like that in present Pakistan.

Once we have such politicians, they have to become popular enough to get victory in election and become prime minister. Once that is done, their performance based on above characters would make them popular enough that no army general would takeover (well, such politicians would become popular in army too).

Else, Pakistan will always have politicians that could not rule as right (haq) but would rule with consent of army.

Once an army general starts ruling the country (after takeover), people also start judging him on above basis and if that general is good, he gains popularity amongst the masses. Most people wants efficient person with good characters (as mentioned above) to rule the country and are not much concerned how they got into power.

In 1999, when Musharraf came to power, Pakistanis had not seen his performance and he was much weaker in power then today. For politicians to oust him in 1999 was easier (if they had any popularity amongst people) but today, he is many fold stronger as its not only army behind him but many amongst masses, whereas, most politicians have lost their little popularity they had in 1999.

Thus, for all who want a change in Pakistan (unless Musharraf decides to leave voluntarily) they should keep barking or praying.

MMA: In 2001, during American bombing on Afghanistan, we saw the best what Mullahs could throw (few demonstration here and there) and if they could not show much strength then, their future chances are nil. They got few NA and PA seats (due to Musharraf nawazish, a way to kick Peoples party and Nawaz party and probably also to send messages to USA about what could be there) but it seems, MMA future is bleak.

MMA is collection of religious parties, most would not like to pray behind others, but as establishment (and army) created IJI, they created MMA. MMA strength, whatever little, is due to combination of religious factions, that is deteriorating day by day, and their little popularity is fading fast.

Their little popularity was due to Musharraf ditching Taliban and many (especially in NWFP, not because of Islam but because of Taliban being Pakhtun) felt sympathy with Taliban who were bombed by Americans (in 2001), hence many in Pakhtun areas voted MMA in 2002 election (though, this was facilitated by Musharraf desire to get few religious faces in parliament).

As for Nawaz and BB, they know very well what they are worth amongst the people of Pakistan. Nawaz in 1999 was more popular then today (due to ignorance amongst some people about him at that time) and still none came out on road when army took over and put him into prison. Situation of BB in popularity is not that far behind NS, rather a bit better. Nevertheless, BB is cleaver and knows where she stands. Thus, she is trying her best to make a deal with Musharraf.

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Good Analysis saleem, Army generally takes over once there is a power vaccum developing. Exceptions may be there but generally true.

Pakistan's four army take overs all promtly fall into this criteria.

1958- Sikander Mirza (Hon Maj gen) a civil servanet turned politician abrogated his own constitution and enforced a Marshal Law, then in Martial Law Administration he could not settle his differences and was later ousted

1969-Anti-Ayub Movement was at Full Awing and Army took over from its own former boss

1977- We all know what happened-Nifaaz-e-Shareeat

similarly 1999

never in our country army got the reigns of government by usurping power from a legitimate government, all time it was given a chance by people incumbent in power.

however this does not absolve them from their responsibility in running the country correctly which i am afraid they do not have a good track record like the politicians they ousted.

While statements like what Qasim gives about chaprasee are not worth replying, a free society means you can speak as you wish, sweet dreams i would say

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Whatever, Army should not take over. They are not trained for the task, moreover, it generally defame the army, an institution which generally enjoy good reputation among the masses when not in command of the country affairs. It also paves way for corruption in a well-diciplined organization. The right to rule is only with the people, the elected representatives of the people must be respected and snatching powers from them is indefensible in any circumstances.

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

no one denying that but realpolitik is something else

i mean take over, have some new elections, fair and impartial and go back. this government business does not suit it. however no one can see the state getting destroyed and take no actions against it.(this is what our politicians have been doing always)

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

and try to leave a system where they should never have to take over again, which is surprisingly missing in all the army rules including this one where most corrupt people of all times led by chaudry shujaat are being allowed to create a dynasty. it will bite us again in future

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

MKF, was Iskander Mirza an honourary Maj Gen...?

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Aap ji bhar ke bolein. Jo chahey kahein, tanqeed karna chahein to karein. Kisi ki aitraaz nahin ho ga.
Waisey kya ye sach nahin hai ke1971 main Pakistan ko torna ka sehra bhi army ke sir jata hai?

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

Originally Posted by Haris Zuberi
Aik General jis ka rank chaprasi key barabar hai!?

Dil to chahta hai bohat kuch bolon, magar bolon to kia bolon...

Aap ji bhar ke bolein. Jo chahey kahein, tanqeed karna chahein to karein. Yaqeen karein kisi ko aitraaz nahin ho ga.
Waisey kya ye sach nahin hai ke1971 main Pakistan ko torna ka sehra bhi army ke sir jata hai?

KABZA KARNEY WALEY GENERALS KO SAHEE SAMAJNEY WALEY SIRF ITNA BATA DAYEIN KE IQTIDAAR PER KABZA KARNEY WALEY KISI BHI GENERAL KE LIYE PAKISTAN KE AAEIN MAIN DAFFA 6 KE TEHT SAZA-E-MOT KYUN RAKHI GAI HAI? kya army ke mun ko khoon nahin lag chuka?

Re: Pakistan Army Generals

[quote=qasim1980]
KYA AAP SOCH SAKTEY HAIN KEH DUNIYA KE KISI BHI MULK MAIN AIK GENERAL JIS KA RANK CHAPRASI KE BARABAR HAI, AIK ELECTED PRIME MINISTER KO ARREST KAR KE ANDER KAR DETA HAI AUR QABZA KARTA HAI

Qasim Mian yey **Chaprasi **or **General **ki rank evaluation needs a second thought. Lagtaa hey aap kuch smoke ker rahey thay jab yey comments likhey gayey.