Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

[ravage]

This is an interesting move. Pakistan Army is weighing in on the drones issue, and highlighting that terrorists are badly damaged by them, and that there is a lot of misinformation about them out there.

While they are a complicated issue, and they are seen with political eyes across the board, I’ve always thought there is nothing wrong in theory with two countries in a coalition cooperating through drones to fight militants who lie at the intersection of both of their interests to fight. Our alternative is a ground operation with conventional weapons, which have a much bigger footprint. What is wrong is the lack of clarity on how many innocents are killed, how much cooperation exists between Pakistan and the US on the choice of targets, and the policy of denial of involvement resulting in an atmosphere that is exploited by those who act as political agents for the Taliban and that prevents the government from transparently and systematically supporting innocents affected by the drone strikes.

This openness is a step in the right direction. What needs to happen is more transparency, names of exactly who is killed and why, communication with the people of that area to either help them relocate or compensate them for any damages and loss of life.

Most of those killed in drone attacks were terrorists: military
MIRAMSHAH: In a rather rare move, the Pakistan military for the first time gave the official version of US drone attacks in the tribal region and said that most of those killed were hardcore Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists and a fairly large number of them were of foreign origin.

General Officer Commanding 7-Division Maj-Gen Ghayur Mehmood said in a briefing here: “Myths and rumours about US predator strikes and the casualty figures are many, but it’s a reality that many of those being killed in these strikes are hardcore elements, a sizeable number of them foreigners.

“Yes there are a few civilian casualties in such precision strikes, but a majority of those eliminated are terrorists, including foreign terrorist elements.”

The Military’s 7-Dvision’s official paper on the attacks till Monday said that between 2007 and 2011 about 164 predator strikes had been carried out and over 964 terrorists had been killed.

Of those killed, 793 were locals and 171 foreigners, including Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, Filipinos and Moroccans.

In 2007, one missile strike left one militant dead while the year 2010 was the deadliest when the attacks had left more than 423 terrorists dead.

In 2008, 23 drone strikes killed 152 militants, 12 of them were foreigners or affiliated with Al Qaeda.

In 2009, around 20 predator strikes were carried out, killing 179 militants, including 20 foreigners, and in the following year 423 militants, including 133 foreigners, were killed in 103 strikes.

In attacks till March 7 this year, 39 militants, including five foreigners, were killed.

Maj-Gen Ghayur, who is in-charge of troops in North Waziristan, admitted that the drone attacks had negative fallout, scaring the local population and causing their migration to other places.

Gen Ghayur said the drone attacks also had social and political repercussions and law-enforcement agencies often felt the heat.

About the cross-border movement of terrorists along the Pak-Afghan border, he said: “Well we have over 820 checkposts along the border to stop militant movement and there is strict vigilance, but unfrequented routes are an exception for which alternate means, including intelligence-sharing between coalition troops and the army, are in place.”

[CEO1]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

In that case why doesn't Pakistan be the sole user of the drones? US should provide information and then the Pakistanis can act upon it?

It is totally out of question for the US to hit targets within Pakistan. Pakistani govt needs to grow some **** and tell them straight.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

I am not against taking military action against terrorists but the above claim sounds way too cooked up. A drone missile does not have a conscious or eyes to know who is a terrorist and who is an innocent citizen. The missile is going to treat both the same way. When you throw a bomb at a village full of people, you cannot just say that it mostly killed the terrorists.

[ravage]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

**CEO1: **Its not unheard of for countries to lend each other expertise that the other doesnt have. Pakistan's air force has carried out operations in the middle east without feeling compelled to give the countries their planes and pilots.

The US doesnt provide the information because they rely on us mainly for the information.

TLK: Perhaps, although the army has tended not to weigh in on the debate. Yes the drone does not have conscious eyes, but its not really acting on its own volition. They are supposed to be acting on intelligence, and they are theoretically designed to be able to attack specific rooms inside a house without damaging the whole house. I suppose the payload of the bombs much be such that the whole village is not affected by an attack. Perhaps those with more knowledge on bombs and artillery etc can weigh in.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

I understand that part, USA is not going to hand over their technology to anyone, especially to Pakistan Amry. They are already afraid of all the radical elements within our army. Who to say that if they give us bunch of drones, tomorrow Subedar Hafiz Ajmal Hussain would not decide to counter attack the US forces using the same drone.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

I understand that part, USA is not going to hand over their technology to anyone, especially to Pakistan Amry. They are already afraid of all the radical elements within our army. Who to say that if they give us bunch of drones, tomorrow Subedar Hafiz Ajmal Hussain would not decide to counter attack the US forces using the same drone.

They would probably give us drone in the same way that they give the UK advanced drones. The British Royal Airforce Reaper drones operating in Afghanistan are remotely piloted by British pilots at an air base in the USA.

Pakistani drones could theoretically be operated in the same way - by Pakistani operators working from the US base, under US supervision.

The drones could take off under Pakistani control from a US-operated base in Afghanistan, ensuring tha radical elements do not gain physical posession of them, and operated in the air by Pakistani personnel, with assistance and monitoring from US personnel.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

Pakistani operators working from the US base, under US supervision.

who to say that its not happening right now.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

who to say that its not happening right now.

If it was happening, it would have been openly declared by now. The Pakistani military has no issue with collateral damage from its own anti-terrorist operations, as you can tell from the employment of imprecise heavy artillery during FATA operations (pro-government tribes already act against militants in their midst; only anti-goverment traitorous tribes continue to shelter them).

If Pakistani operators were controlling the drones, it would have been easier for both Pakistan and the US to come out and declare that the drone strikes were a sovereign operation by Pakistan.

The fact that no such statement has been made, and in fact that Pakistan continues to suggest that the US should share drone technology, suggests that this is not the case.

The main reason I can think of is some articles that I read a while back (no link available) suggesting that the US does not want to rely on Pakistan for attacks, because the US on occasion seeks to attack militants that the Pakistan army views as potential assets. There were allegedly some incidents where information on upcoming strikes was shared and the targetted individuals were tipped off and escaped.

Of course, even such cases are a violation of sovereignty, as it means Pakistan's own internal domestic militant management strategy is upset.

[ravage]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

For the sake of balance and context, its also important to remember this:

http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/14/drone-strike-wipes-out-mans-family-faith.html

The army is surely underplaying it when they say

Maj-Gen Ghayur, who is in-charge of troops in North Waziristan, admitted that the drone attacks had negative fallout, scaring the local population and causing their migration to other places.

Gen Ghayur said the drone attacks also had social and political repercussions and law-enforcement agencies often felt the heat.

And that is how the military does see civilian casualties.. an operational problem that complicates their mission. Whats needed here is more of the civil intizamia’s role. Every mistake should be a premium, and the military (Pak and US) needs to feel pain when they destroy people’s lives as the man above. The military should not be able to write it off as fallout and collateral damage.

[ravage]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

If it was happening, it would have been openly declared by now. The Pakistani military has no issue with collateral damage from its own anti-terrorist operations, as you can tell from the employment of imprecise heavy artillery during FATA operations (pro-government tribes already act against militants in their midst; only anti-goverment traitorous tribes continue to shelter them).

If Pakistani operators were controlling the drones, it would have been easier for both Pakistan and the US to come out and declare that the drone strikes were a sovereign operation by Pakistan.

The fact that no such statement has been made, and in fact that Pakistan continues to suggest that the US should share drone technology, suggests that this is not the case.

The main reason I can think of is some articles that I read a while back (no link available) suggesting that the US does not want to rely on Pakistan for attacks, because the US on occasion seeks to attack militants that the Pakistan army views as potential assets. There were allegedly some incidents where information on upcoming strikes was shared and the targetted individuals were tipped off and escaped.

Of course, even such cases are a violation of sovereignty, as it means Pakistan's own internal domestic militant management strategy is upset.

Good points Maddie. What do you think the fact that the Army has come out in quasi-support of drone strikes means? I think it has to do with some negotiation of positions from the meeting in Oman, and such an arrangement might be being made.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

Good points Maddie. What do you think the fact that the Army has come out in quasi-support of drone strikes means? I think it has to do with some negotiation of positions from the meeting in Oman, and such an arrangement might be being made.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised either if the army always maintained this belief secretly beforehand, and only came public to put pressure on the goverment not to push too hard for an end to strikes.

[ravage]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

True. Also I think its even possible that the Army might prefer it not have to operate the drones from an American base. I dont know if its is an image-improvement from being seen as unwilling partner who is fighting for more control with its own set of conflicting priorities to being seen as an out and out partner operating from what can be seen as a compliant position inside American bases.

[firenze]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

what the hell is "The Military’s 7-Dvision’s".
any body have more info ?

[ravage]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

Seems to be a unit with a history dating back to the partition

http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/awpreview/TextContent.aspx?pId=195

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

so out of these about 1000 militants, how many were "TTP" members?

[firenze]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

I fully supported the drone attacks from the day one. Keep the momentum up.

[IceSoul]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

This is a very nice move on the part of the Pakistan Army. Drone attacks are pretty useful and I genuinely believe they have been helpful in our war with the Taliban.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

According to the above article "The Military’s 7-Dvision’s official paper on the attacks till Monday said that between 2007 and 2011 about 164 predator strikes had been carried out and over 964 terrorists had been killed." although the exact number of strikes are much more

[firenze]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

@Ali_Syed

According to the above article "The Military’s 7-Dvision’s official paper on the attacks till Monday said that between 2007 and 2011 about 164 predator strikes had been carried out and over 964 terrorists had been killed." although the exact number of strikes are much more

who is the source, ansar abbasi?

[shardmanny]

Re: Pakistan Army comes out to bat for drones

ive not been following these developments for a long time but from previous interest i do know that there is one aspect we cannot rule out. that is even if pk army wanted to stop drone attacks they are still limitted in what they could do if the US insisted

statements to some extent are just pr

if you look at every development theyve always needed encouragement. sometimes the evidences of encouragement (dan dah) were only appearing indirectly after events