This a post that is being shared extensively on facebook. And he has a fair point. Those pakistani Muslims in the US must protest trump’s ideologies but a much more monstrous task is to rid Pakistan of all the evil, bigoted hate-monging, radical ideologies only a few talk about.
*"I have seen many worse than Donald Trumps in Pakistan and the American clown we see ranting on television neither surprises nor irritates me. So he’s calling for a ban on a minority community (Muslims) in the US & Pakistani Muslims are going bonkers?
Guess what! Many years ago the government of Pakistan constitutionally imposed several bans on a minority community (Ahmadis) declaring them heretics and making every Pakistani wanting passport sign a clause calling this community’s founder an ‘imposter’.
The constitutional bans allow the state to arrest and imprison this community members for ‘posing’ as Muslims. So if they say Assalam Alaikum, read Quran, offer prayers in a mosque they can get arrested. Donald Trump?
I saw many worse than Donald Trumps when Shama and Shehzad were thrown in brick kiln and burnt alive by a Muslim mob on charges of alleged blasphemy.
Mr Trump of US is calling for a ban. Our ‘heroes’ actually went ahead and burnt the Christian couple alive. And no this was not one off incident. Remember those youthful Sialkot brothers lynched by the mob while police looked on? Remember Gojra, Yohanabad, Joseph Colony?
Remember Hindu girls in Sindh forcefully converted to Islam and married off under the ‘able’ supervision of MNA Mian Mithu of ruling party? Remember Hazara community? Alamdar Road Quetta when bereaved family members had to sit with coffins of their beloveds under open skies in the cold of January just to get heard? to get justice, to move the government? Donald Trump?
Before focusing on Mr Trump of the US, please take a look within and see what the many Trumps, rather worse than Trumps, are busy doing to Pakistan. If you have even an iota of love for Pakistan, just look within and use all your activism where it is actually needed. In your family, neighborhood, friends, colleagues and spheres of influence. There are plenty out there to tackle Mr Trump of the US but is there anyone bothered about these Trumpoons out to destroy Pakistan?"
here is another article by an ahmadi Pakistani who is summarizing all constitutional measures that the state of pakisan has taken against ahamadi minority and if true, makes us much worst than what trump is proposing. i am not ahmadi, so i cannot verify all the points raised by this blogger. can anyone confirm that what he is saying is factually correct? for example is that right that ahamdais cannot vote? or do not have right to assemble for their annual convention?
as we discuss how can we change some of the existing trump-istan in Pakistan, let me share this excellent post from net as to why it is only Muslims who have more problems in regards to social integration with west vs Buddhists, Chinese, hindus etc.
مسلمان ہی مغربی تہذیب سے کیوں نالاں ہیں یا اس کے ساتھ مل کر کیوں نہیں رہ سکتے؟ یہ مسئلہ چینیوں یا ہندووں کا کیوں نہیں؟
یہ صرف مسلمان ہیں، جو تہذیب، ثقافت، سماجی اقدار کو مذہب سے منسلک کرکے دیکھتے ہیں۔ اسلامی تہزیب، اسلامی ثقافت، اسلامی اقدار وغیرہ۔ جب کہ تہذیب و ثقافت کا تعلق اس بات پر ہوتا ہے، کہ کوئی معاشرہ تاریخی لحاظ سے کونسے دور سے گزر رہا ہے۔ یعنی، قبائلی ہے، فیوڈل ہے، یا صنعتی، سائنسی ٹیکنالوجی کا زمانہ۔ جسے ہم اسلامی تہذیب و ثقافت کہتے ہیں۔ وہ اصل میں قبائلی اور فیوڈل اقدار پر مبنی ہے۔ اور جسے ہم مغربی تہذیب و ثقافت کہتے ہیں۔ وہ جدید صنعتی، سائنسی معاشرے کی پیداوار ہے۔ تہذیب و ثقافت کو اچھے برے کے معنوں میں نہیں دیکھا جاسکتا۔ کوئی تہذیب اچھی یا بری نہیں ہوتی۔ وہ پس ماندہ ہوگی، یا ترقی یافتہ۔ معاشی لحاظ سے پس ماندہ معاشرے کی ثقافت و تہذیب بھی پس ماندہ ہوتی ہے۔ یہ نہیں ہوسکتا، کہ معاشرہ پس ماندہ ہو، لیکن اس کی تہذیب ترقی یافتہ ہو۔ یا معاشرہ معاشی، علمی، سائنسی، ٹیکنالوجی کے لحاظ سے ترقی یافتہ ہو اور اس کی ثقافت اور سماجی اقدار پس ماندہ ہو۔ اگر ہم ترقی کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ تو لا محالہ ہماری ثقافت و تہذیب بھی ضرور بدلے گی۔ مسلمان نہ اس چیز کے ساتھ ایڈجسٹ ہو پار ہے ہیں، نہ اسے سمجھ رہے ہیں۔ وہ اپنی ثقافتی اور سماجی اقدار کو ابدی سمجھ رہے ہیں۔ جب کہ ثقافت، تہذیب اور اقدار وقت کے ساتھ بدل جاتے ہیں۔ اسی لئے مسلمان آج بحران کا شکار ہیں۔ اور ترقی یافتہ تہذیب سے ٹکرا رہے ہیں۔ یہ ترقی تو کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ لیکن اپنے ورلڈ ویو، رہن سہن، صنفی اور سماجی اقدار کو جوں کا توں رکھنا چاہتے ہیں۔ جب تک مسلمان اس تضاد کو سمجھنے اور اسے حل کرنے کے لئے تیار نہیں ہوتے۔ یہ تصادم جاری رہے گا۔ چینی اور ہندو عملیت پسند ہیں۔ وہ وقت اور حالات کے تقاضوں کے مطابق تبدیل ہو رہے ہیں۔ وہ تننوع Diversity کو قبول کرنے کی صلاحیت رکھتے ہیں۔ اسلام مسلمانوں کو تنوع اور کثرتیت کو قبول کرنے سے روکتا ہے۔ مسلمان ‘دوسرے’ کو قبول نہیں کرتا۔ اسلام میں شرک یعنی شریک کرنا سخت گناہ ہے۔ اسلام singularity احدیت کا مذہب ہے۔ introvert. اپنےآپ کے اندر گم، کسی دوسرے عقیدے، دوسرے مذہب، دوسری ثقافت، دوسرے طرز حیات۔۔۔کو قبول کرنے سے روکتا ہے۔ یہ سب کوایک ہی اپنے جیسے رنگ میں ڈھالنا چاہتا ہے۔ جو کہ سائنسی اور فلاسفی کے لحاظ سے غلط ہے۔
This a post that is being shared extensively on facebook. And he has a fair point. Those pakistani Muslims in the US must protest trump's ideologies but a much more monstrous task is to rid Pakistan of all the evil, bigoted hate-monging, radical ideologies only a few talk about.
"I have seen many worse than Donald Trumps in Pakistan and the American clown we see ranting on television neither surprises nor irritates me. So he's calling for a ban on a minority community (Muslims) in the US & Pakistani Muslims are going bonkers? ....
Why should US citizens of Pakisani origin be too much bothered about what goes on in Pakistan. Naturally, they would be concerned about their 'home' i.e. the United States.
Pakistan is much worse than Trumpistan, but does that make American Muslims protesting Trump's statements invalid?
Pakistan is much worse than Trumpistan, but do Pakistani politicians repeat words like 'freedom' and 'civil liberties' ad nauseam?
Why should US citizens of Pakisani origin be too much bothered about what goes on in Pakistan. Naturally, they would be concerned about their 'home' i.e. the United States.
Pakistan is much worse than Trumpistan, but does that make American Muslims protesting Trump's statements invalid?
Pakistan is much worse than Trumpistan, but do Pakistani politicians repeat words like 'freedom' and 'civil liberties' ad nauseam?
perhaps when you are too close the vision gets distorted and you need to step away to get a better understanding :)
They believe a prophet after Prophet Muhammad (SAW) so by definition, they violate the basic tenents of Islam: i.e. there is one God (check) and Muhammad is the final messenger (uncheck).
So, for them to be deemed "non-muslims" by scholars is completely well within the rights of Islamic scholarly work.
But that's scholarly work.
No one has the right to touch another human life. To discredit and argue tenents of a religion is one thing. Other religious groups argue that Muhammad (SAW) wasn't a real messenger such as certain Christians and Jews and they have the right to argue it on an academic level. If they want to view muslims in America as a non-Judeo/Christian group, then that's their right. They already think we worship a non-Abrahamic God. But if they want to believe differently that's their right.
Likewise it is a muslim's right to view an Ahmadi movement as non-Islamic.
But that doesn't give anyone rights to hamper anyone's civil rights and rights to live. So on that end, I agree with the poster. Pakistan has worse than Donald Trumps. We have Donald Ducks there.
They believe a prophet after Prophet Muhammad (SAW) so by definition, they violate the basic tenents of Islam: i.e. there is one God (check) and Muhammad is the final messenger (uncheck).
So, for them to be deemed "non-muslims" by scholars is completely well within the rights of Islamic scholarly work.
But that's scholarly work.
Ahmadis believe in both i.e., oneness of Allah and that Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet and messenger of Allah and was Khataman-nabiyeen. the only major difference is identity of who is Mahdi and Masih of later days as was prophecised. I will stop right here as topic is completely different. the issue is 'double standards and munafiqat' of our nation that feels pain when elsewhere human rights especially rights of 'muslims' are usurped but keep mute when same is done at their home.
[quote]
No one has the right to touch another human life. To discredit and argue tenents of a religion is one thing. Other religious groups argue that Muhammad (SAW) wasn't a real messenger such as certain Christians and Jews and they have the right to argue it on an academic level. If they want to view muslims in America as a non-Judeo/Christian group, then that's their right. They already think we worship a non-Abrahamic God. But if they want to believe differently that's their right.
Likewise it is a muslim's right to view an Ahmadi movement as non-Islamic.
But that doesn't give anyone rights to hamper anyone's civil rights and rights to live. So on that end, I agree with the poster. Pakistan has worse than Donald Trumps. We have Donald Ducks there.
[/QUOTE]
you may be considering someone a non-muslim but if he identify himself with Islamic scriptures and rituals etc. no one has the right to dictate him how he should be following his religion. No one has the right to stop him from uttering Kalima and reciting holy Quran, offering prayers and all that. No one has the right to threaten them with different means if they follow their heart and act upon their religion the way they prefer.
They believe a prophet after Prophet Muhammad (SAW) so by definition, they violate the basic tenents of Islam: i.e. there is one God (check) and Muhammad is the final messenger (uncheck).
So, for them to be deemed "non-muslims" by scholars is completely well within the rights of Islamic scholarly work.
But that's scholarly work.
No one has the right to touch another human life. To discredit and argue tenents of a religion is one thing. Other religious groups argue that Muhammad (SAW) wasn't a real messenger such as certain Christians and Jews and they have the right to argue it on an academic level. If they want to view muslims in America as a non-Judeo/Christian group, then that's their right. They already think we worship a non-Abrahamic God. But if they want to believe differently that's their right.
Likewise it is a muslim's right to view an Ahmadi movement as non-Islamic.
But that doesn't give anyone rights to hamper anyone's civil rights and rights to live. So on that end, I agree with the poster. Pakistan has worse than Donald Trumps. We have Donald Ducks there.
Slippery slope here Ms PCG. Who decides what are basic tenants of Islam and who decides which of us muslims violate these tenants?
The scholars who we think should decide this sit likely in Mecca or Lal masjids of Pak. They have dozen wives, 100s of kids and molest goats On weekends. Those scholars?
Why not ban all religion from state business and base laws on common sense. Put all religion where it belongs - in the past.
agreed ...lets pls not take this discussion towards the verifiability or disqualification of a certain religion or sect by another sect. The point is that we already have ahamdis existing in Pak as a minority today. That is a fact. why they became a minority or shd they be a minority is a separate discussion.
they are there today facing constitutional discrimination worst than what trump wants to hand over to muslims in usa....and now that we are facing tough music in the usa and europe, it is a chance for us to feel the pain of minorities in our own country and we shd raise voice for it.
^ Well that's what I'm saying, even if you were to deem them non-muslims, they still have their rights. Ex. The Yazidis being left alone for 1400 years.
Ahmadis believe in both i.e., oneness of Allah and that Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet and messenger of Allah and was Khataman-nabiyeen. the only major difference is identity of who is Mahdi and Masih of later days as was prophecised. I will stop right here as topic is completely different. the issue is 'double standards and munafiqat' of our nation that feels pain when elsewhere human rights especially rights of 'muslims' are usurped but keep mute when same is done at their home.
you may be considering someone a non-muslim but if he identify himself with Islamic scriptures and rituals etc. no one has the right to dictate him how he should be following his religion. No one has the right to stop him from uttering Kalima and reciting holy Quran, offering prayers and all that. No one has the right to threaten them with different means if they follow their heart and act upon their religion the way they prefer.
Agreed.
I have Ahmedi friends who have woken me up for Sehri in Ramadan and we fasted together. I don't see any reason to be harassing them.
Maybe I'm mistaken then - I guess they accept Mr. Qadiyani as the Mahdi? I thought they viewed him as a prophet.
These pakistanis want equal rights when they travel abroad, cry on injustices happening to muslims in india and elsewhere, and criticize Trump for speaking his mind about terrorism but they treat minorities living in Pakistan like subhumans.
This is a great example. Now export all these shameless shopkeepers to uk or USA and they would demand full religious freedom but in their own country they are protesting against the local police for trying to stop religious bigotry.
