Afrasiab Khattak is good man, he refused to become a Minister under Zia and Musharraf. He’s also married to an Afghani!
HARDtalk: “The Afghan policy was framed by generals and run by
intelligence agencies…”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-9-2002_pg3_6
Afrasiab Khattak, lawyer, peace activist and Afghan expert
- Karzai is in a difficult situation but he is the only hope
- Afghanistan cannot afford hostile relations with Pakistan
- Kabul can have relations with any country, including India
- Pakistan has tried to control Afghanistan
- The money pledged at Tokyo must reach Afghanistan
Afrasiab Khattak is Pakistan’s leading expert on Afghanistan. He has
also been instrumental recently in freeing dozens of Pakistani
prisoners captured during the war against the Taliban. Daily Times’
Peshawar Bureau Chief, Iqbal Khattak spoke with him on the continuing
violence in that country, the post-Loya Jirga situation and Pak-
Afghan relations after the departure of the Taliban. Excerpts:
Daily Times: You have just returned from Kabul. How do you see the
post-Loya Jirga situation, the ongoing violence and the direction in
which Afghanistan is moving?
Afrasiab Khattak: The post-Loya Jirga administration is making
efforts to bring order to a chaotic situation that has evolved over
three decades. I think they are working very hard but the situation
is very difficult. The money the donors pledged in Tokyo has still to
reach Afghanistan. The Afghans are repatriating in very large numbers
and Kabul does not have the means or the funds to rehabilitate them.
The state institutions are yet to evolve. The executive is in place
but the legislature, the Parliament, has still to be set up. They
also need to establish a judicial mechanism at all levels. There are
not many skilled people and professionals. The past decades saw a
near total brain drain from Afghanistan. Now they have started a
policy of brain-gain, but it’s not easy to implement. The law and
order problem persists. Warlords have risen again and there are still
remnants of terrorist elements.
DT: Hamid Karzai appears to have weakened since the Loya Jirga. Can
he really hold Afghanistan together?
AK: He is facing very serious difficulties. But to say he cannot lead
Afghanistan will be wrong. There is no alternative to his
administration. He is doing his best. I think a lot of Afghans are
prepared to give him time and follow him because the success of his
administration is Afghanistan’s last hope. Broad sections of the
Afghan population, leaving aside the extremists, support this
government. The recent visit by Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah
Abdullah and Finance Minister Ashraf Ghani to Islamabad shows Kabul
is making efforts to forge closer relations with neighbours.
DT: But it is also a government whose president has lost confidence
in his own security system and has sought protection from the
Americans.
AK: Mr Karzai’s security is a very serious concern. We should not
forget that he is facing a grave threat from terrorists with very
strong international connections. These terrorists could even spring
surprise on the United States. It is not an internal threat. This
terrorist threat and its fallout are far too complicated for the
Afghan security system to handle. But it is a temporary arrangement
and after enough Afghans are trained, they will replace the Americans.
DT: What are the chances of Karzai’s success?
AK: He stands a good chance. Large numbers of Afghan support him. All
of them know this is the last chance for Afghanistan and there is no
viable alternative to his government except a return to extremism.
DT: Some observers believe the problems Karzai is facing are
partially because of the US. Karzai wants to put down the warlords
but the US is strengthening and coopting them in its fight against Al
Qaeda-Taliban remnants. How will Karzai tackle this problem?
AK: It’s not easy, I agree. The US presence is making things easy as
well as complicating them. This is because big powers also have their
own regional and international agendas. The oil and gas interests in
Central Asia are a prime motive for the American presence in this
region. They would like Afghanistan to fit into their scheme of
things. The US support for the warlords is the sort of thing that can
create problems for Karzai. But we should not underestimate the
Afghans; they are quite sophisticated and can tackle things as they
come.
DT: The US war has also killed civilians. What’s your take on the US
campaign?
AK: I have my reservations on the conduct of war. No one can condone
civilian casualties. Innocent lives could have been saved. I have
expressed my concern over US bombardment earlier also. But we must
remember that the terrorist network was deeply entrenched in
Afghanistan, almost like a malignant tumor. It had to be taken out.
And Afghans could not have taken it out without international support
because it was too big and too strong for them. It had demolished
Afghanistan as a state and fragmented the Afghan society. Afghanistan
was really in a bad shape.
DT: What if the US decides to chase Al Qaeda into neighbouring
countries? How would that affect the region?
AK: I think the US should take Afghanistan’s neighbours into
confidence. I don’t think the Americans should cross into other
countries from Afghanistan. Instead, they should coordinate with the
neighbouring governments. The terrorism menace has to be fought
jointly. It is destabilising every country.
DT: Some Afghans say what is happening could further destabilise
Afghanistan.
AK: Afghanistan is at a crossroads. It is reinventing and
rediscovering itself as a nation. I feel optimistic because in spite
of serious problems Afghanistan has not lost its Afghan-ness. I think
the Afghan nationhood is not controversial. Also, Afghans are sick of
war. They tried to use war to solve their problems, but have now
realised the futility of that course. These facts generate optimism.
But, yes, the situation is still very precarious.
DT: The money pledged in Tokyo hasn’t come in.
AK: That is a very serious issue. The US$4.5 billion must reach
Afghanistan, quick. That is the only way to stabilise the country.
Without employment, reconstruction and rehabilitation, there can be
no stability. The Afghan government is naturally frustrated by the
delays.
DT: How will Karzai tackle the problem of growing ethnic division?
AK: This ethnic problem was a political undercurrent, although there
is no open challenge to Afghan nationhood as such. This undercurrent
was politicized during the Russian invasion to encourage different
groups to divide the Afghans. And the neighbouring countries also
encouraged such ethnic division. Any foreign power that wants to
control Afghanistan can do so by dividing the Afghans on ethnic
lines. But the internal division is projected in a way that presents
a misleading picture. The division is not as deep as it appears from
a distance.
DT: Traditionally, Afghanistan has had poor relations with Pakistan.
Who is to blame?
AK: I think both must be blamed, but Pakistan more than Afghanistan.
They suspect each other, which is very unfortunate. Many of the older
states around Pakistan looked at us with some suspicion and I think
our rulers should have been wise enough to reach out to Kabul. There
are some people in this country, who thought we could take over
Britain’s imperial policy and decide the fate of Kabul while sitting
in Rawalpindi or Peshawar. This patronising attitude made Kabul
suspicious of us. We have also not involved the Pashtun in this
country in framing our Afghan policy. That could have had a healthy
influence. Then when we joined the CENTO and SEATO military pacts,
Kabul began making the Pakhtunistan demand to put pressure on
Islamabad. It was obvious within the Cold War paradigm.
DT: How would the dominant role of the Northern Alliance impact
Kabul’s relations with Pakistan and also with India?
AK: I think Afghans are very good at balancing their act. Afghanistan
is no more a buffer state between two superpowers. I don’t think the
NA leaders are opposed to good ties with Pakistan. This is a
misperception. Afghanistan cannot afford to have hostile relations
with Pakistan. Neither should we look at Afghanistan’s ties with
India as a threat to us. Afghanistan is an independent country and
has the right to have good relations with any country, including
India.
DT: Who is now running our Afghan policy, the Foreign Office?
AK: I don’t think there has been any fundamental change on that
front. When a civilian set-up is overthrown, the military also takes
over other departments. So, disengaging army from foreign policy in a
military government is not realistic. But the future civilian
governments must bring the foreign policy under their control. We
should also put out a white paper on our Afghan policy because it has
affected our society in so many ways. We know it was run and framed
by the generals and executed by the intelligence agencies.