I think its a good step, if Pakistan - Afghanistan come closer and resolve their issues themselves without involving foreign powers. Best of luck to both countries in this endeavour.
Re: Pakistan - Agfghanistan rapprochment
Mods please change the spellings of Afghanistan in the post title
Re: Pakistan - Agfghanistan rapprochment
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/17/pakistan-afghanistan-set-up-joint-commission-to-pursue-peace.html
Pakistan, Afghanistan set up joint commission to pursue peace
By Shumaila Andleeb | APP
KABUL: Pakistan and Afghanistan on Saturday agreed on the formation of a joint commission to carry forward the reconciliation process, following the withdrawal of foreign troops from the insurgency-torn country.
Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani and Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who held exhaustive talks here at the Presidential Palace, described the parleys as “historic”, saying that “the two countries stand together as they have shared destinies.”
Prime Minister Gilani said that he in consultations with President Karzai, Chairman Professor Burhanuddin Rabbani and members of the High Peace Council, had agreed to establish the two-tier Afghanistan-Pakistan Joint Commission for facilitating and promoting reconciliation and peace.
The first tier of commission will include the chief executives, foreign ministers along with chiefs of the military and intelligence services of the two countries while the second tier will comprise senior officials of foreign ministries, military and intelligence services.
“I have assured President Karzai that Pakistan strongly supports an Afghan-led and Afghan-owned process for reconciliation and peace,” Gilani said.
He also extended Pakistan’s full support to the efforts of President Karzai and the High Peace Council, for initiating an inclusive process of grand national reconciliation in which all Afghans not only have a stake but the process also promises the future peace and stability in their country.
“We firmly believe that this process must have full Afghan ownership,” Prime Minister Gilani said and added that it was for the Afghan nation to determine the parameters on which a reconciliation and peace process would be shaped.
“Conditions, qualifications or demands at this stage, in our view, may not be helpful,” he added.
He said that the restoration of stability and peace in Afghanistan was essential for peace, security and well-being of the people of Pakistan.
To a question about President Asif Ali Zardari’s recent statement wherein he warned that a destabilized Afghanistan could have a negative impact on Pakistan, Gilani said he fully endorsed the views. He said his visit was particularly aimed at working out a common strategy to jointly fight terrorism that was a threat to both the nations.
Asked whether the United States (US) was on board regarding the Pak-Afghan talks, Prime Minister Gilani said “the US is on-board. That’s our core group and whatever will be decided, will be among Pakistan, Afghanistan and the US.”
President Karzai, while speaking on the tripartite arrangement, said that his country welcomed consultations with the United States in this regard.
He said Pakistan’s role as a facilitator was also important and added that whatever Prime Minister Gilani said was a “fundamental shift” of Pakistan from its views in the past.
“We today have clarity, which never existed earlier,” Karzai said.
Gilani, when asked about al-Qaeda’s presence in Pakistan, said “it is your country’s problem and you have to decide and set parameters.”
About the role of the United States in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Gilani said “whatever is the policy of the US on Afghanistan, Pakistan will support Afghanistan.”
Gilani also strongly dispelled the notion that terrorists were entering into Afghanistan from Pakistan and said the two countries were already interacting at political, intelligence and defence levels and this cooperation would enhance in the days ahead.
Gilani said that he held in-depth consultations with President Karzai on the situation prevailing in the region and various initiatives that were being talked about for promoting reconciliation and peace.
“I would like to laud the efforts of our Afghan brothers and sisters across length and breadth of Afghanistan to realize their legitimate aspirations for peace and stability.”
President Karzai described the message from Prime Minister Gilani on the reconciliation process as very “clear” and “important” and added that the two sides held detailed talks on all aspects, including the situation in the region and bilateral political, economic and trade relations.
Prime Minister Gilani termed the drone attacks “counter-productive” and added that loss of precious human lives could not be just dismissed as “collateral damage.”
Gilani said similarly, suicide attacks, resulting in loss of innocent lives as well as attacks on places of worship were not only inhuman and barbaric but evidently designed to denigrate Islam and to sow discord among Muslims, communities and societies.
Prime Minister Gilani said his visit to Afghanistan was aimed at reaching out to the Afghani people. He said in his opening remarks that he was here to convey respect and admiration for the great Afghan nation and to renew “deep-rooted bonds of fraternal solidarity.”
Re: Pakistan - Agfghanistan rapprochment
Good move, i hope the Pak and Afghan govt can actually materialize the things, on the ground, The Karzai govt have very little say in the affairs and Taliban are dictating the terms, if the move is made to make path for the talibans/resistant fighters to reach a peace agreement then it be taken as a positive move but if the whole thing is going to be SHOT down by Americans at any stage, then it can back-fire
Re: Pakistan - Agfghanistan rapprochment
agreed, especially if the americans are kept out of it, they will make sure that the deal fails...although i believe that the deal can only materialize if foreign forces let the two countries resolve their issues themselves
Re: Pakistan - Agfghanistan rapprochment
I just don't trust Karzai or any Afghan government official for that matter. They have always backstabbed Pakistan
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
True, as karzai has repeatedly acted like a chameleon depending on who is next to him.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
I just don't trust Karzai or any Afghan government official for that matter. They have always backstabbed Pakistan
Exactly what I was thinking.
And I don't think there will be truly peace between Pakistan and Afghanistan, because of the Durand line and pashtunistan-vision by some afghan pashtuns.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
American's are not kept out of loop, their is a word going in the circles that American's offer Taliban Northern Afghanistan for permanent bases in return.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
I guess you meant southern afghanistan, as Taliban don't have a base in northern afghanistan and NA (non-paxtuns) would not be happy!
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
Well after the current operations of NATO in southern Afghanistan some taleban elements have infiltrated into the north
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
But paxtuns don't form the majority in the north so how can america offer it to them? Might as well offer whole of afghanistan as it is not like they will vacate south because of it.
From what I have seen, the north is also less arid and has agricultural potential unlike the south, which might have mining potential but who is going to invest and succeed in a troubled environment?
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
Americans and other foreign elements must be kept out of this deal. Good gesture i must say. Wish Pakistan and Afghanistan best in achieving trust.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
**‘Pakistan, US at odds over Afghan solution’
**
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/19/pakistan-us-at-odds-over-afghan-solution.html
NEW YORK: As the Afghan imbroglio heads towards another so-called endgame or impasse, US based think-tanks and experts here are saying that Pakistan and the United States are at odds over the final resolution of the crisis.
They even suggest Pakistan could seek to completely oust Washington’s influence in any resolution, which given the present situation could be a tough sell.
The Americans are seeking a strong and centralised Afghan government commanding a large army that can control its territory. Pakistan is pressing for a loosely governed neighbour where it can influence events through Taliban proxies, the ‘New York Times’ reported citing top US and Pakistani officials.
The Pakistanis are nervous of the US aim for a strong Afghanistan and are pressing for a small Afghan Army and want to play a crucial role after the American exit from the country.
The Times said Islamabad had sought to improve its leverage in Afghanistan by threatening to cut down CIA operations within its territory, cracking down on Taliban leaders to coerce their cooperation and befriend President Hamid Karzai.
The paper said the visit of Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, country’s powerful army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and head of the spy agency ISI, was the latest iteration of this new Pak-Afghan relationship.
“This was the most public of a number of visits to Afghanistan by Kayani in the past year and American diplomats both in Kabul and Islamabad declined to comment on the visit and appear to know little about the intention of the two nations to unveil a joint commission with considerable fanfare as a vehicle to end the war,” the NYT said.
“There’s something special about a relationship that only gets worse, but never actually falls apart”, the Foreign Policy magazine observed on Monday. It goes on to note: “Pakistan has been selling itself to the United States as a national security bulwark since the earliest days of the Cold War, and Washington has been an eager and often uncritical buyer, subcontracting to Pakistani military and intelligence operatives much of the effort to arm and train the mujahideen who fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s.” Only in the 1990s, with the Soviet menace gone, did Washington allow the bonds to fray altogether, over Pakistan’s nuclear programme.”
Americans have been coaxing the Afghan and Pakistan leadership to talk to each other, but not at the cost of keeping the US out of the loop or of concocting solutions that are against its interest, US officials said.
“The latest visit by Pakistani leadership trio is an attempt to sidestep the US in order to safeguard Pakistan’s interest in Afghanistan,” the NYT said.
Pentagon officials said the differences evolved around which Taliban factions should be included in any settlement, the role of India — an ally of the US but the enemy of Pakistan, and the size of the new Afghan army, which the Americans want big and Pakistani want small.
The officials told the Times that while the overall commander in Afghanistan General David Petraeus was determined to batter the Taliban as much as possible, it was a policy the Pakistani disagreed with.
But the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen has more tolerance for the Pakistan point of view.
The impression of the US leaving Pakistan out in the cold is particularly disconcerting to General Kayani because he was granted a three-year extension of his term last July, partly on the ground that he would win a seat for Pakistan at the Afghan negotiating table.
The Pakistan and US differences in particular are more pronounced as Washington wants to keep up the pressure on the network led by Sirajjudin Haqqani, a long-time asset of Pakistan.
The recent demand by Pakistan for the US to reduce the number of CIA agents and curb its drones programme is the “lowest point in memory” that the relations between the two countries have plunged.
“There was never a level of trust,” said a former American military official who served in a senior position in Pakistan. “I’m convinced now they don’t want our help.”
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
Here is the whole article from New York Times.
News Analysis
U.S. Rift With Pakistan Grows Over Drone Strikes
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The differences between the United States and Pakistan that broke into the open last week over the scale of C.I.A. operations here signaled a fundamental rift, plunging the relationship, sometimes strained, sometimes warm, to its lowest point in memory.
**The rupture over Pakistan’s demands that the Americans end drone strikes — which the Obama administration rejected — and scale back their intelligence presence within Pakistan exposed the tentative nature of the alliance forged after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. And it is increasingly apparent that the two countries have differing, even irreconcilable, aims in Afghanistan.
With the Afghan endgame looming, suspicion is overwhelming faint cooperation between the United States and Pakistan, as each side seeks to secure its interests, increase its leverage to obtain them, and even cut out the other if need be, American and Pakistani officials say.
**
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
Without ISI providing cordinates there are no drones to talk about, then why this drama? Its all for public consumption.
As for end game looming Amreeka need a face saver and whipping boy to run from A-Stan.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
well there are news that now CIA has independently setup their own spy network and they dont need ISI any more to operate within Pakistan, all this fuss is regarding that.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
well there are news that now CIA has independently setup their own spy network and they dont need ISI any more to operate within Pakistan, all this fuss is regarding that.
CIA cannot find its ass on the map let alone setup a network in a place they did not know (and still don't know) exist. All this hala gulla is for public consumption. All you have to do is ask CIA the where abouts of Bin Ladin or Mullah Omar or few others and see the table dance.
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
CIA cannot find its ass on the map let alone setup a network in a place they did not know (and still don't know) exist. All this hala gulla is for public consumption. All you have to do is ask CIA the where abouts of Bin Ladin or Mullah Omar or few others and see the table dance.
this is the case probably. CIA may hae some in the big cities but that's abt it
Re: Pakistan - Afghanistan rapprochement
Are not your claims but one of many conspiracy theories about our progress against terrorism? Do not conspiracy questions based on rumors and speculation lead to conspiracy conclusions? Should we not instead applaud the commitment and dedication of those nations who continue to fight insurgency? Is now not the time for us to accelerate our efforts to defeat the insurgency and bring justice to the thousands Muslim families who lost fathers, mothers and children, and to the thousands of innocent civilians killed or maimed by Taliban? The US, contrary to your claims and accusations, does not condone terrorism and continues to tighten its grip around the neck of terrorists. And make no mistake, as our President has made clear, we do intend to win, and turn over a more stable and secure environment to Afghanistan’s government, security forces and people.
We fully support all efforts by Afghanistan and Pakistan to counter insurgency. The US and NATO forces have developed a strong working relationship with its allies to address shared security issues. Did you know Afghanistan, Pakistan and coalition forces worked together on Dec. 23, 2010 at a tripartite commission to discuss areas for future cooperation as all seek to build on 2010 security gains against the Taliban.
http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isa…operation.html
The proximity to Pakistan’s border provides Taliban with a viable option as they continue to taste defeat at the hands of the US, NATO and Afghan forces. The US desires a safe and secure environment for Pakistan as well as Afghanistan without these countries becoming a breeding ground for terrorists. Otherwise the threat posed by our common enemy will continue to linger spread until the entire country is consumed. Our ultimate goal is an Afghanistan with the strength of self determination to provide for its own security without foreign troops.
CDR Bill Speaks,
DET, United States Central Command