Pak (V) Ind - Where does this hatred come from ..?

Respected All
AOA:

It is very good thing that all you r intrested in general problems.But a Define criteria should be before every one to debate
specially when u r talking about some sensitive issues,like religion or huminity.

1:any body should not get pain from ur talk
2:u should speak u confidently know about
3:take care when ur talking about religion

As a matter of islam if all the muslim has crushed by non muslim and one muslim in reaction kill even a single but innocent non muslim he will be griped at qiamat.

We, the muslims,the presentitive of allah
what we r talking about that some non muslims
r hated by us.I am very ashemed from all non muslims by this time.Muslims r representitive of allah.Their duty is first of all obey the allah's order in their lives.then check that
where the allah's orderd r disobeyed.Then
there we have three options
1: accept the allah's order
2:Stay on ur beliefs but obey the allah's
presentitive's govt.
3: in third case war decide between muslims or non muslims.

Well miss soubia do you have the so high chracter like Hazrat Khola to start a war.And
Mr jawan do u feel u have bear the torture
from non muslim at ur extreme.Just read in books and make a statemen do not show this immture behavior.
What u think U are a muslim representitive.
I am ashamed.

You all have to be strong muslims with open heart we do not hate any religion we love all human because they r creation of our allah.
But if anybody will tortur or think to let down our muslim brothers ,we will definitly
Tell the truth to them
i Think its my opinion if i have a wrong about God forgive me
By the way what u think fido
salam to all

Assaalaam muslim brothers.

Finally rani speaks up again! And im here. She said:
So Jawaan your religion teaches you to hate idol worshippers. Why does hindu way of worshipping bother you and makes you hate them, has it ever occured to you that they are causing you no harm. Hinduism doesn't teach hatred towards muslims. Religion should teach peace and goodness not hatred and worshipping ten Gods or hundred Gods does not cause any harm to anybody.

You are welcome to hate people who don't emulate your way of worshipping, but phleeeze don't complain if they hate you back.

Please read this and decide if hinduism is really a way that rani presents it. I think she is lying she is trying to present and pretend and tell others that hinduism is great.

Sailor if you doesnt like presentation of jaawan. did you ever think that why jaawan wrote or why do we muslims do not like hindus? I dont think so!
What is happening in kashmir? What hindus doing with muslims in india and in kashmir? why are you killing soo many muslims in kashmir? if you guys dont hate us why do you spend billions of dollars on defence and keep your whole population hungry and sick just so you can fight with us and get rid of all muslims from south asia? why nehru sent an envoy to spain in 1949 to get knowledge for eliminating the muslims in south asia? that really shows how hatefull hindusim is and what it teaches you guys.

Islam teach us love but if someone try to hit you than you have a right to defend our selves. And also islam teaches you to be hardfull who ever disrespects Allah.

Read my next post below this one. that tells you how hatefull and how much love hinduism teaches you. know your background and tell it like it is. Do not confuse words of others and make them look like something else. But that is typical of you.

Zar Leo

Fe-amaan-allah.


if u think, this is over than think again:)

Jar Leo aka Jawaan

**Assaalaam muslim brothers.

Finally rani speaks up again! And im here. She said: **

What do mean..do I need your permission to speak.

My response was to your statement that muslims hate idol worshippers. If you want to discuss Kashmir, you can discuss it in Kashmir affairs. We don't believe in dividing countries on basis of religion. Hinduism or idol worshipping has nothing to do with Kashmir.

Almost all the religious books of the Hindus, particularly the Dharma Shastras regarded Sakas and Yavanas, the inhabitants of Pakistan in those days, as M'leechas (unclean). The Atharva-veda regarded Pakistan as outlandish. Similarly they were unanimous in considering Vangals i.e.,Bengalees, as barbarous, outside the pale of Aryans--outscastes, outsiders. Further, they were all termed dasyus (slaves) and rakashas (devils). According
to a passage in the Mahabharata, Yavanas and Gandharas (people of Pakistan), and Vangals (Bangladeshis) are sinful creatures in earth. They did not respect the Brahmins and their religion; did not follow their laws, spoke different language and were therefore detested and despised by the
Aryan high castes. Inter-mixture with them was prohibited. Patanjali speaks of Yavanas and Sakas as sudras and relegates them outside Aryavarta. (A History of Indian Culture, by Radhakumad Mukherjee).

The strange fact is that the basin of the Indus and the Punjab West of Sutlej came to be regarded as impure land by the Brahmins of interior India at quite an early date. Orthodox Hindus are still unwilling to cross the Indus, and the whole of West Punjab between that river and the
Sutlej is condemned as unholy ground, unfit for the residence of strict votaries of Dharma. (Oxford History of India, by VA Smith, 3rd edition, edited by Percival Spear)

The Jat's spirit of freedom and equality refused to submit to Brahminical Hinduism and in its turn drew the censure of the privileged Brahmins of the Gangetic plain who pronounced that 'No Aryan should stay in the Punjab for even two days because the Punjabis refused to obey the priests. (A History of Sikhs, by Kushwant Singh).

The inroads of those foreigners blotted out the memory of the memory of the Aryan immigration from the North-West (i.e. Pakistan) which is not traceable either in the popular puranic literature or in the oral traditions of the people. To the east of Sutlej (i.e. East Punjab, India) the Aryans were usually safe from foreign invasions and free to work out their own way of life undisturbed. They proceeded to do so and thus to create Hinduism with its inseparable institution of caste. (Oxford History of India, by VA Smith, 3rd edition, edited by Percival Spear)

It is noteworthy that according to the Bandayana Dharma Shastra the Indus Valley was considered impure and outside the limits of Aryandom proper. Any one who went there had to perform sacrifices of purification on return. (Tribes in Ancient India, by BC Law)

The Brhat-Samhita mentions Vokkana country as situated in the western region of India (Pakistan). In chapter XVI, V.35, Varaha Mihira includes the Vokkana among those belonging to Rahu, together with barbarians, evil-doers and the like. (Roruka: was it Moenjodaro? by Pranavitana, Studies in asian History: Proceedings of the Asian History Congress held at New Delhi in 1961)

In later vedic literature there are references to confederation of un-Aryan tribes living in the north-east and north-west of the sub-continent in the first half of the 1st millennium B.C. Pundra and Vanga in Bengal, Madra in the Ravi-Chenab Doab. (The Peoples of Pakistan, by Yu Gankovsky).

While the Aryans by now expanded far into India their old home in the Punjab and the north-west was practically forgotten. Later Vedic literature mentions it rarely and then usually with disparagement and
contempt, as an impure land where the Vedic sacrifices are not performed. (The Wonder that was India, by AL Basham).

Both Buddhism and Jainism flourished in Sind and it had revolted against the superiority of Brahmins. They ignored their Gods and denied the Vedas. (Sindhi Culture, by UT Thakur).

It might have been noticed that by the beginning of the Christian era, the racial and ethnic character of Pakistan had undergone complete transformation. Whatever Aryan elements were left had almost disappeared in the avalanche of Central Asian Saka and Kushan tribes whose disregard of strict Hindu principles antagonised the high caste Hindus, ultimately leading to mass conversion of Pakistan to Buddhism during Kanishka's time. With this development, the differences in ethnic and racial composition between Pakistanis and Indians also assumed religious colour. It was because of the hatred for the people of Pakistan that, as already stated, the Hindus never built any holy city or temple or regarded any river in Pakistan sacred. The Punjab Gaztteer Vol. XX says that "the
Punjab can show but few Hindu antiquities." It may be be noted that the remains of pre-Vedic (Indus Valley Civilization) and Buddhist periods are found in Pakistan but not of the Hindu period which came between the two and again appeared to a limited extent after the fall of Buddhism.

The Aryans who settled down in the Gangetic Valley had come to their journey's end after a very long and arduous march. The rich fertile doab of the Ganges was the baikuntha, according to their heart's desire. To entrench themselves in this paradise they took two measures:

(i) they adopted the policy of aparatheid (the caste system); and (ii)they made earnest efforts to turn the marginal lands into a buffer zoneand to seal their nearer borders (i.e., the eastern border of the western wing and vice versa) against foreign intrusions.

For their further expansion and colonisation they took north-south bearings. This vertical lay-out of this Hindu (Neo-Aryan) map of the subcontinent is the key to the understanding of geo-history of this part of the world. Vishnu Purana (II, 3.1) thus delineates the land of Bharata:

The country that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains is called Bharata; there dwell the descendants of Bharata;

Kautilya, the Hindu Machiavelli, spoke of the "thousand Yojanas (leagues) of land that stretch from the Himalayas to the sea" as "the proper domain of chakravartia patha (a single universal emperor)". This north-south (vertical) lay-out of the land of Bharata has been well summed up in the famous aphorism: Himalachala stu paryantum, i.e. from
Himalayas to the end of land (Rameswaram). Vishnu Purana (11. 127-9)
gives the geo-political reason for the vertical lay-out of Bharat; it states:

On the east of Bharata dwell the Kiratas (the barbarians); on the west, the Yavanas (the outlandish Greeks/ Bactrians); in the centre reside Brahmans, Kshatriyas, Vaishayas and Sudras.

To protect the blue-blooded Aryans from the contamination of the 'demonaic' (Ashuras), 'wild' and 'carrion-eating' (Paisachas) and outlandish (Yavana)--people of the western wing and the 'barbaric' and
'boorish' Kirates, Pundras and Vangas of the eastern marginal land, the Hindu shastras laid down strict rules. The Dharma Sutra (II, 1.2.2) of Baudhayana states:

Who visits the country of the Arattas (the Punjab), or of the Pundras and Vangas (Northern and Eastern Bengal) must perform a purificatory sacrifice.

The Sutras and the Puranas are relatively late compositions. We find that the Aryan aversion for the people of the rimland had developed quite early during their migration from the land of the seven rivers.
The Satapatha Brahmanas of the "White" Yajur-Veda (OX.31 18) show that the emigrant Aryans regarded those Aryan tribes, that were still in the basin of the Indus, with mistrust. The Aitareya Brahmana of teh Rigveda states that beyond Magadha lived the Pundras of North Bengal and the Vangas of Central and Eastern Bengal who were outside the pale of Aryandom.
The Mahabharata speaks of the Bahikas of the Punjab "who are outcasts from righteousness, who are shut out from the Himavat, the Ganga, the Saravati, the Yamuna, and Kurukshetra, and who dwell between the Five Rivers" (VIII 202, 9) It further lays down:

In the region where the Five Rivers flow let no Aryan dwell there even for two days. There they have no Vedic ceremony nor any sacrifice (V,20, 63).

The imperialistic Hindu chakravartins did not always follow these rules of their Shatras. Whenever they found themselves powerful enough they invaded, pillaged and annexed as much of the portions of the marginal lands as they could. This expansionist hunger of the Hindus has not been satiated to this day. However, though they protested vehemently against "the vivisection of Bharat Mata" yet they never ceased to regard the marginal lands as impure. A remarkable evidence of their constancy in this respect is the fact that while the length and breadth of Bharat is
studded with their tirathas, --- holy towns, e.g. Kurkshetra in Hariana, Kashi (Benaras), Mathura, Haridwar (Hardwar), Prayaga (Allahabad) and Ayodha (Faizabad) in UP; Gaya in Bihar; Navadvipa (Nadiya) in W. Bengal; Cuttack Puri in Orissa; Avantika (Ujjain) in central India; Dvaraka in Gujrat; Kanchi and Ramesvram in the south; holy rivers all over Bharat and their holier confluences,--- not a single notable tiratha ever existed in what is now Pakistan. (Islam in the Geo-historical Perspective of Pakistan, by Qudratullah Fatimi)

The cleavage, as such, is not new as Indians try to make out; and what is more, the cleavage is not due to Islam only as they further try to stress. It is age-old, has its roots deep in history and is not only temperamental and spiritual but racial as well as geo-political.

It is indeed strange for the Hindus to claim Pakistan as part of Akhand Bharat on the basis of history when the entire history not only thoroughly disproves this claim but, on the contrary, amply bears out that Hindus themselves have regarded it as outside Aryavarta, as an impure land, not fit for their holy places; a land inhabited by sinners outside their fold.

There you go rani now you know what you really are. if you stil have some point just bring it on. I know you will make some OTHER non-sense from somewhere like you always!

Lets talk on facts and NOT on assumptions. I always have facts and i know you know that i do. :)

Zar Leo

Fe-amaan allah


if u think, this is over than think again:)

**
My very very dear Hindus & Muslims or Pakistanis & Indians,

Please stop posting here and there about bringing PAKISTAN and india close together. These two countries can never achieve that. Because the sub-continent is NOT a geo-political unit, it has never been. Ask any, and I mean ANY PAKISTANi if he wants to see a United indoPAK, and he’ll shake his head saying NEVER.
According to Kingsley Martin, “the Hindus have not forgiven the Muslim League for destroying the unity of the subcontinent when the British agreed to indpendence.” He is right because they still believe that “Bharat-Varsha is one and indivisible. Our motherland has a soul within her integral physical boundary. Any partition, spiritual or physical, is artificial, illegal, immoral and against the laws of nature.” Mr. S.R. Patel, author of ‘Foreign Policy of India’, regards the creation of Pakistan as “a major threat to the safety of India and her geographical unity is broken … The dwindling of the base of the indian nation by this unnatural division has seriously weakened india and may imperil her very freedom. Militarity, strategically, economically, historically, culturally and geographically, the reunion of the nation is imperative.” Thus hindu politicians and intellectuals want to convince the world that “geography and the mountains and the seas fashioned India as she is and no human agency can change that shape or come in the way of her final destiny.” ALL THIS SH¡T CAN ONLY COME FROM THE EXPANSIONIST MIND OF THE HINDU.

And again I here people saying, LETS TRADE! well I’ll tell you one thing Pakistan does not want any of india’s cheap soviet style junk stuff, understand. Neither do we want your cheap IT solutions etc., cause you can throw it to the dumb americans, not us. AND, I’ll tell you something very interesting, If you come up the populations ratios of the two countries, you’ll notice the PAKISTAN has a HIGHER no. of Computer/IT professionals than india, ones who damn prefer to work in their own country rather than swimming to the U.S. for a better pay. And hardware is much less expensive here in PAKISTAN than in a so-called Information Super Power india, get this, you indians cannot buy anything on the web (dumbos!!!) but we PAKISTANis can do.

I ask you, DON’T THE INDIAN MUSLIMS CELEBRATE WHEN THE PAKISTANI TEAM WINS OVER THE indians???
To my PAKISTANi fellow, they do, they celebrate like hell, just like we do.

SO YOU WANT PEACE IN SOUTH-ASIA :
Well, how may times do we have you to stop the genocide in Kashmir and let them go where they like. Really it’s just that simple ( if you dumbos get it, ofcourse). Don’t you get it, Kashmir is the only way we can settle as peaceful coutries, if not friends. Only if your military minds would stop thinking that after giving Kashmir freedom they wouldn’t have any reason to convince LokSabha to pour billions of dollars in defense expenditures. And get this two, nearly 2% of the union of india’s defense budjet goes to recruitment ads. How miserable!!!

b.t.w. if you want more information about the real india, visit http://how.to/kill.india/
**

[This message has been edited by pakistan99 (edited August 28, 2000).]

Jawaan,

I don't have time to read or analyse your cut and paste. There is no need to justify your hatred for Indians you can hate them as much as you want, but just remember if you hate them they will hate you back. You can waste all your life hating Indians...good luck.

Rani deer!

For your Poor information you can ask Azkar or any of the members of gupshup that i am NOT jawaan. Thank you. And if you still have some doubt please come on the voice chat if you are brave enough and we will make a fool out of you.
Only jawaan doesnt like hindus here, there are many many people who dont like you brahmans. I hate them most. I know you dont like your self now. lol ;)
Would you like to tell me what place your society gives you?
Are you brahman, vaish, kashtri, shudar? Dont be ashamed just tell me?
Yes you can lie! :)

LETS STAY ON the TOPIC!

Zar Leo

Fe-Amaan-allah.


if u think, this is over than think again:)

Pakistan99

You are welcome to hate India as much as you can no need to go to all these details to justify yourself. Indians really don't care. West wishes and Good luck!!!

That's the spirit, Zar my boy!

And btw... I really think there should a religion checking system installed in this forum! Nothing is impossible.


** To miss Rani : I don't suppose you got a printed invitation letter to come and spoil this forum... did ya???**

[This message has been edited by pakistan99 (edited August 28, 2000).]

Rani first things first bachii.

I am not Zar leo, and zar leo is NOT me you will know read few lines down. If you wana know ask azkar or the admin who really is what. Do not make an ass out of your self by assuming things about me! Puhleez. :) Now you know. Maybe still not.

2ndly. i think you got my answer in zar leo and pakistani99's posts, great job guys. :)

Rani you have a big broblem, DO NOT tell me what i write and DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT alter with what i write. You have a habit of doing that. Or maybe you dont understand something!!!

I said Hindus does NOT like muslims and we muslims do NOT like hindus. <that statement DOES NOT mean that islam teaches hate, does it? I dont think so. If hindus does NOT like muslims, we dont have any reason to like you. Look what hindus are doing in kashmir, killing and raping young women and kids...and you mean to tell me you like or DO not spread hate and violenceeeeeee? Puhhhhhhhhhlessssssssssssssssss give me a break.

Again i am NOT zar leo if you wana make sure come to the voice chat and if you hear 2 voices, than bend over and take that assumption of your up somewhere tight of yours. :)

Jaawan


till next time**Keep_It_Simple_Stupid**

**Wise Man says:>What I say won't really change anything, but what you say doesn't really matter!

**admin jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :frowning:

SATHYNAAASSSSSSSSS KAR DIYA MERI THREAD KA…??? :mad:

what these guys are talking about is sooooooooo totally irrelvant from my topic ???
Can anyone read ??/

:frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

Stop your relgious wars and answer the topic… if not go and fight about it somewhere else.. :frowning: **

MS

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/devil.gif


~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~

:eek: :smiley: :eek: :eek: :smiley:

MS

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/devil.gif


~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~

I think they hate Pakis cuz they can't get over the fact that India was created by muslims. Before that it was a bunch of small warring states fighting with each other.

This basic insecurity leads to claims like:

The Babri masjid is really a Raam temple,The Taj Mahal is really a temple called Tejo Maalish (or some shit like that), Bollywood is going to challenge Hollywood, etc.

Indians generally make good pets but make sure yours has had it's rabies shots.

just testing...
:)

[This message has been edited by Mem Sahib (edited August 29, 2000).]

Xtreme Saheb you are 200% right.


Mem- is that a good thing or bad thing that you know who I am??? Cuz I didn’t know if you knew that I knew who you were..heheheh.
BTW- good luck to you and your jaanu (did I spell that right? my urdu is horrible..bear with me!)
:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Oi- some people are jsut bringing up a centuries old debate..knock it off! I (almost) swear yaar…humans are the worst kind of people! Uff! :rolleyes:


Women live off three things- food, shelter and compliments.

Mem Sahib i apologize for using such words, but i had to and it had to be done...and i had no choice. :)

Xtreme well said! :)

Jaawan


till next time**Keep_It_Simple_Stupid**

**Wise Man says:>What I say won't really change anything, but what you say doesn't really matter!

[quote]
Originally posted by Zar Leo:
** The Atharva-veda regarded Pakistan as outlandish.
**
[/quote]

Gosh! Pakistan is such an ancient nation!!

Mr Xtreme... Bilkul sachhi baat ki aap ne.

Ullu .... Good one!! heehee

Rani... So who exactly invited you here? BTW, thanks for ruining this forum.


...aur bhayya, kaise ho?

Hi Bharysh

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/blush.gif

Yes he recently told me who you were… :slight_smile: :slight_smile:
Nice to meet you :slight_smile: & why would it be a bad thing to know who you are mmmmmm ??
Not bad at all.. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:
It’s all good. :slight_smile:

ANyway - keep posting - check you out laterzz

Luv

MS
( & thanks for the good luck,)


~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~