not exactly. china pakistan relation is very special. pakistan even gives its territory to china and china being a permanent member of security council breaks all international norms and even gives nukes. they even give missile tech for missiles more than 300 kms, when international norms clearly mention that technology for more than that range should not be given. pakistan's babur missile looks very much identical to chinese YJ 62 and the pace with which pakistan got that missile(and even others), even chinese couldn't get it so quickly.
If US/Russkies can proliferate nukes/missiles to India why can't China?
There is a difference between opening ties and establishing diplomatic and military ties.
Secondly Pakistan is important because:
Energy Corridor
Solid support for 50 years in the multilateral arena
Education and social ties. Their former premier studied in Karachi and speaks fluent urdu.
More stuff here.
Man..i don't get how all this relates to the topic. and the topic is not as to who is more closer to china..whether india or pakistan. If that is not what you mean..then indeed pakistan is more closer. no denying
India was the second or third country to establish relations with germany. But that doesn't mean that germans are more closer with india than pakistan.
-and Pakistan is a energy corridor more to india than china. you cannot supply energy via worlds highest mountains.
-as far as solid support goes, india supported china to become a permenent member in security council.
-i will not comment on the third point
-and india is a bigger market. trade with india for china is rapidly growing. (actually it depends on how you see this. a chinese may see india as a competitor/threat from this or may see as an oppurtunity. I see it as an oppurtunity )
Pakistan is naturally very generous with their friends, demonstrates by giving expensive gifts, show warm relationships. This trait can be seen in any (true) Pakistani. Unlike hypocracy, blood sucking trait (a common bhindians quality) demonstrated by bhindia with friends and enemies alike cz no matter how much diplomatic they pretend to be, inreality, they are friends to none but only other bhindians.
what about pakistan giving a piece of kashmir to china as gift?
I was waiting/expecting for this exact reply...(particularly from you)
The topic is about pak china relations...from the perspective of chinese. China arming pakistan, is india centric.
Now let's assume russia indeed arming/proliferating to india...from the perspective of a russian. Is it pakistan centric??...no.
No accusations please, China has been arming and investing in Pak long before India started breadthing. And if china did proliferate it was only after US/Russkes did first so keep proliferation yada yada out coz it isn't gona cut it.
Now why would Russiaan proliferation be Pak centric?
not exactly. china pakistan relation is very special. pakistan even gives its territory to china and china being a permanent member of security council breaks all international norms and even gives nukes. they even give missile tech for missiles more than 300 kms, when international norms clearly mention that technology for more than that range should not be given. pakistan's babur missile looks very much identical to chinese YJ 62 and the pace with which pakistan got that missile(and even others), even chinese couldn't get it so quickly.
Actually, thats Kashmir territory, thats administered by Pakistan... And if its to be returned, we can discuss that when Indians decide they want to settle the issue... But barring that, I see no probelm in the Chinese using the territory. The whole issue is a cheap way for Indians to try and brow beat Pakistan and try to divert attention from their own abysmal Kashmir policy.
Dont know about giving Nukes, and as far missiles go, it certainly isnt a problem for anyone other then the Indians for some reason. Why should you be worried about Pakistan defensive imports?
I think Indians having their natural bias towards both Pakistan and China tend to blow things out of proportiion.
I was waiting/expecting for this exact reply...(particularly from you)
The topic is about pak china relations...from the perspective of chinese. China arming pakistan, is india centric.
Now let's assume russia indeed arming/proliferating to india...from the perspective of a russian. Is it pakistan centric??...no.
Actually, if anyone with even an iota of common sense; would know that any weapons given to India, would, if there ever were another war, be used against Pakistan...
Seems to me that from the anyones perspective, arming either Pakistan or India, could mean having those arms used against the other...
So doesnt matter who is arming who. Ultimately, your just as guilty as anyone else.
Dont know about giving Nukes, an far as missiles go, it certainly isnt a problem for anyone other then the Indians for some reason. Why should you be worried about Pakistan defensive imports?
The topic is about chinese relations with pakistan from a chinese perspective. and hence the reasons for chinese arming pakistan also came up. and their intention behind arming you!!
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I think Indians having their natural bias towards both Pakistan and China tend to blow things out of proportiion.
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man...when india signs a deal for civilian nuclear deal (not military), things get blown out of proportion from pakistan and china. is there a natural bias?..yes. Fact is, chinese relations with pakistan goes beyond friendship coz Both have a comman enemy.
Man..i don't get how all this relates to the topic. and the topic is not as to who is more closer to china..whether india or pakistan. If that is not what you mean..then indeed pakistan is more closer. no denying
India was the second or third country to establish relations with germany. But that doesn't mean that germans are more closer with india than pakistan.
-and Pakistan is a energy corridor more to india than china. you cannot supply energy via worlds highest mountains.
-as far as solid support goes, india supported china to become a permenent member in security council.
-i will not comment on the third point
-and india is a bigger market. trade with india for china is rapidly growing. (actually it depends on how you see this. a chinese may see india as a competitor/threat from this or may see as an oppurtunity. I see it as an oppurtunity )
Pakistan through Gawadar could be used as an energy cordidor by connecting Western China to the Gulf etc.
There are plans to build a rail line between Pak and China, aswell as an expansion of the Karakorum Highway...
You obviously havent been reading.
You know aswell as me that your second statement is pointless... Pakistan has been a solid aly of the Chinese for far longer then India...
India is also a rival, a country which has for many years has had an adversarial role towards the Chinese... Now with Indians trying to sleep with the Americans, has obviously raised some eye brows among the Chinese. Your right, its an oppurtunity and a threat... China certainly seems to be playing you as both...
Yeah, fine, you certainly sound bitter in your posts…
Go talk to the Chinese about why they are upset over your little deal… Fact of the matter is that Pakistan has certainly not made a huge issue of it, and the Chinese will naturally have a problem with anything that involves such massive transfer of technology to country thats right in their backyard… Or are you going to tell me that this should be no concern to them?
And India does blow things out of proportion when they fail to factor in the fact that China has been making huge investments in many of Indias neighbors aswell.
Even India recognizes this fact when they warned the Sri Lankans not to look to CHinese for support…
China has also invested in East Asia, and also Africa including in Nigeria…
Yeah, fine, you certainly sound bitter in your posts...
Go talk to the Chinese about why they are upset over your little deal... Fact of the matter is that Pakistan has certainly not made a huge issue of it, and the Chinese will naturally have a problem with anything that involves such massive transfer of technology to country thats right in their backyard... Or are you going to tell me that this should be no concern to them?
err..no. i am not bitter. so finally chinese have a problem as per you. and it should not be of any concern to them, as it is a civilian nuclear deal and not military. and for a country like china if it is a huge issue, are you telling it is not a huge issue for pakistan??...
err..no. i am not bitter. so finally chinese have a problem as per you. and it should not be of any concern to them, as it is a civilian nuclear deal and not military. and for a country like china if it is a huge issue, are you telling it is not a huge issue for pakistan??...
Glad your not bitter, but add a smile to your posts, it will give the imprssion that your satisfied and at peace...
Well, if it is , Pakistan hasnt made a hue or cry over it... Its more a problem for China, a regional power.. Pakistan doesnt have any delusions of its own worth.
Getting back to the point, Pakistans only importance is in its strategic location. As far as the Chinese go, Pakistan just part of their grand scheme which cover many countries in the region, including India...
-and Pakistan is a energy corridor more to india than china. you cannot supply energy via worlds highest mountains.
-as far as solid support goes, india supported china to become a permenent member in security council.
-i will not comment on the third point
-and india is a bigger market. trade with india for china is rapidly growing. (actually it depends on how you see this. a chinese may see india as a competitor/threat from this or may see as an oppurtunity. I see it as an oppurtunity )
Okay I will take your last 4 points as they are the most prudent to the conversation.
The idea of an energy corridor is not that in the traditional sense. Its like an oil pipeline to India or one from the CIS. It is the old fashioned take tankers through the mountains routine. But more importantly it is an energy corridor for China firms and military based in the Indian ocean.
You know why Gwadar is such a silent but deadly subject? It is right at the mouth of the gulf. Meaning even a small naval fleet can cut off access to the oil coming through there. Pakistan has already given China the go ahead to have its navy stationed there. Additionally Pakistan established an EPZ for China only a few weeks/months ago. The current one is based in Karachi and the next will be based in Gwadar. Considering Pakistan's military and technology ties how much do you wanna bet those EPZ will be used for military based industries.
Secondly and more importantly it gives China a strong port in an oil rich region. If they finally move their naval forces there you can bet there will be issues with the US.
We are the ones that got China their seat in the UN because we ran an active campaign to remove Taiwan from the UN. I can proudly say that our Ambassador at that time was one hell of a diplomat. The US agreed only after we set up the Kissinger trip.
Good we agree.
We have an FTA with China as well as construction contracts for alot of infrastructure development. If only Afghanistan could settle down and we will be doing alot more.
China has $1.3 trillion dollars in Forex reserves - the largest in the world. It is investing like mad all over the world, and Pakistan is one of the main destinations of it's investments. Gwadur Port, Makran Highway and countless other construction projects are proof of that.
