Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

I came across this criticism of Islam - I wanted your input since I dont know much history to verify what of this is true or not, or how a knowledgeable muslim would dismiss these claims.

**There were 360 idols around the Kaba. The pilgrimages to the Kaba were all pagan pilgrimages, the ritual processions around the Kaba were part of pagan beliefs and custom, the white robes worn by the pilgrims were from pagan faiths, the veneration of the Kaba and black stone are derived from pagan rituals and beliefs. Pagans called out the names of their pagan gods as they circled the Kaba, today, Muslims call out Allah’s name. Pagans ran between the nearby hills, Muhammad authorized Muslims to do that in the Quran, and probably ran between the hills himself.

        The chief pagan god worshipped there was Hubal, who could be called the god of Mecca and of the Kaba.  Hubal is not mentioned in the Quran. The goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were also worshipped there and are mentioned in the Quran.**

After Muhammad took Mecca, he cleansed the Kaba. Inside the Kaba were many representations of the prophets. When his men began to cleanse the Kaba, and wash out the representations, Muhammad placed his hands on the pictures of Jesus and Mary, and said “Wash out all except what is below my hands”. Again, Muhammad went against his own principles, and sanctioned his definition of idolatry.

**Muhammad then sanctioned the pagan rituals concerning the Kaba, i.e. kissing the black stone, touching the Kaba, circling the structure, running between the two hills, etc. Later, Umar said to the black stone “I know that you are a stone, that neither helps nor hurts, and if the messenger of god had not kissed you, I would not kiss you”. (Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 2, #667). But then he kissed the stone. Like Umar, many other Muslims follow the prophet in their practice of veneration of a pagan idol.

        Before Muhammad, there was a group of people in Arabia who also abhorred idolatry.  They were known as the Hanifites.  Even the Hanifites saw that kissing the black stone was pagan idolatry.  During one of the pre-Islamic Eids, the Qurayshi were worshipping their idols, slaying sacrifices, praying, and making circuits around the Kaba.  Just as they did each year for this festival.  Some Hanifites saw them, and stood apart from them, and said:

        "By the Lord!, our people have nothing left of the faith of Abraham.  What is this stone that we should encircle it?  It can neither hear nor speak, neither hurt nor help.  O our people, look out for your souls, for by the Lord are you altogether wanting."

 One of the Hanifites was Obeidallah... later he embraced Islam.  He immigrated to Abyssinia with other Muslims.  Later he became a Christian.  After his conversion, he said to his Muslim friends 'We (Christians) see, but you are only blinking' - that is, cannot see plainly.**

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

Also about the Sabeans:

**THE SABEANS

        Who were the Sabeans?  Why did Muhammad regard them as believers in the true God?  The Sabeans are mentioned at least 3 times in the Quran:

1) 2:62 - "Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabeans; whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right, shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret."

2) 5:69 - "Believers, Jews, Sabeans and Christians; whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right, shall have nothing to fear or to regret."

3) 22:17 - "As for the true believers, the Jews, the Sabeans, the Christians, the Magians, and the pagans, God will judge them on the day of Resurrection. God bears witness to all things."

        Although what is known about the Sabeans is not comprehensive, enough has been written about them to determine a basic understanding of their practices and beliefs.  Most of the writings are from Islamic sources. Some of the writers are Ibn Hazm in 'Fisal wa-Milal', Ibn al-Nadim in the 'Fihrist', Shahrastani in 'The Treaty on Sects', and Masudi in 'Muruj al-Dhahab.



        Ibn Hazm, writing in 'Fisal wa-Milal', identifies the people then known as 'Harranians' as the 'Sabeans' mentioned in the Quran.  Hazm writes that they honored the seven planets and the twelve constellations, they have 5 times of prayer, (the same times as the Muslims pray), they fast in Ramadan, they venerate and turn to the Kaba in prayer.  Hazm also says they also worshipped the stars and idols.  Hazm further claims that Allah sent Abraham to turn them away from pagan worship, but Abraham didn't succeed.



        Comparing all the early writings on the Sabeans, we find that they inhabited Syria, and spread from there, they were definitely pagans, having a mixture of Babylonian and Helenic religion.  The 'prophets' they professed to follow were Hermes and Agathodaemon, who they identified in Shahrastani's time with Seth and Idris (O.T. Enoch). Gods who were worshipped were the gods of the 7 week-days, the god of the Jinn, the lord of the Hour, the god who makes arrows fly, the god Tammuz (a variation of the one previously mentioned), Hamam the prince, the father of the gods, the god 'North', the lord 'Fortune', etc.  They also kept the Eid of their own.  Further, the Sabeans made star worship a chief characteristic of their system.



        So, did Islam get the 5 times a day prayer? --From the star worshipping Sabeans.  What about fasting during Ramadan? - from the Sabeans. The Eid? - from the Sabeans.



        It seems very odd to me that Muhammad, the man who's central doctrine was the oneness of God, would include pagan worshippers as those who were believers in the true God.  If Muhammad were truly a prophet, how could he have made such a big mistake? How did astral worshippers get included into the Quran as those that worship the true God?  How could Muhammad's 'revelation' be in such error?



        It is noteworthy that just as Muhammad incorporated the pagan veneration of the Kaba and black stone into Islam, so he incorporated the Sabean times of prayer, Eid, and fasting into Islam.



        Once again, Muhammad didn't fully know the subject he was synthesizing into Islam.  I have read nothing about their doctrine that would have led Muhammad to include them as followers of the one true God he preached about.  Perhaps he learned a small portion about their religion, and believed it to be right.  Little did he know that under that veneer of words, lay many theological differences.**

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

what the pagans did (tawaf of kaaba and hajj) were rituals (distorted a lot though) that were the sunnah of Prophet Ibrahim (as)....
Muhammad (saw) purified the rituals from the pagan influence (idols, tawaf in nudity, shirk, etc etc) but retained the sunnah of Prophet Ibrahim (as)....

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

kissing the black stone, touching the Kaba, circling the structure, running between the two hills, etc. Later, Umar said to the black stone "I know that you are a stone, that neither helps nor hurts, and if the messenger of god had not kissed you, I would not kiss you". (Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 2, #667).

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

rvikz continue to read the above text in PCG's post "Like Umar, many other Muslims follow the prophet in their practice of veneration of a pagan idol."

the author of the original text might have been an idiot and misinformed fool who had no idea that the black stone never was an idol nor worshipped as one....
do u also share the author's view????

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

no religen can exist without symbolism . it is continuation of previous practises
much more refined. all religens involve some rituals to apease god.

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

exactly,

OMAR IBN KHATTAB said the same thing as it i mentioned in BUKHARI,

and as the people say he was pagan or bla bla bla… so ask them,
if he (omar) saw pbuh doing that or they( who say foolish things) against this hadith???

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

a number (if not most) of the 'pagan influences on Islam' or 'pagan origins of Islam' type arguments are debunked in Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali's excellent two volume work, Sirat Al-Nabi And The Orientalists... i can highly recommend it... published 1997...

ISBN: 9960-770-68-0 (the set)
ISBN: 9960-770-77-X (Vol.1)
ISBN: 9960-770-78-8 (Vol.2)

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

*Reg: Pagan Influence *

The pagan of Makkah were heavily influenced by the religion of Prophet Ibrahim(as) with lot of impurities added with the passage of time, So Prophet Muhammad cleansed the older religon of Ibrahim, Moses and Esa(Pbut). And Allah gave him Quran so that impurities can be identified later if added.

Talking about similarities one can find tones of similarities in Judaism and Islam. Becasue, basically source is the same. Religious Jews at the time of prophet Muhammad(pbuh) knew that he is the same prophet promised in the books.

The hindus find similarities between their rituals and that of Muslims at kaaba, So may be their origin (thousands years back ) is the same as Ibrahimic religion ? Maybe Ram and Krishan were the prophets of their time, and so may be Gotam Budh and many more. You never know !

Re- SABEANS

The Introductory sentense is based upon a Lie How can be trust the information provided therein ??
see

[quote]

Who were the Sabeans? Why did Muhammad regard them as believers in the true God? The Sabeans are mentioned at least 3 times in the Quran:
[/quote]

Neither Muhammad nor Quran regarded them as beleivers in true God !

The verses speak for themselves

1) 2:62 - "Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabeans; whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right, shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret."

2) 5:69 - "Believers, Jews, Sabeans and Christians; whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right, shall have nothing to fear or to regret."

See the patern: first the address, then condition, then reward
eg.

Mr. Andresson ! If you accept these terms and conditions, you will be awarded with permanent membership of this society.

So Sebeans are asked to start Beleiving in One God only.

The author deliberately tried to misguide readers with false notion and continued it in later part...

[quote]
It seems very odd to me that Muhammad, the man who's central doctrine was the oneness of God, would include pagan worshippers as those who were believers in the true God. If Muhammad were truly a prophet, how could he have made such a big mistake? How did astral worshippers get included into the Quran as those that worship the true God? How could Muhammad's 'revelation' be in such error?
[/quote]

Re: Paganism as the Basis of Islam?

^ or the other equally plausible meaning of 2:62 as preferred by a number of commentators is that it confirms for former peoples (those prior to the advent of Prophet Muhammad saw) success in the Hereafter if they sincerely and obediently followed the guidance of the specific revelations sent to them... so those Jews who followed Moses (as) for example - they would of course be believers in Allah and the Last Day - they "have nothing to fear or regret"; the same for Jesus's true followers etc. etc.

one reason given for the revelation of 2:62 and like verses is that Salman al Farsi - a Christian convert to Islam - enquired of the Prophet (saw) about the Jews and Christians he had previously known who followed the message sent to them but who never reached Prophet Muhammad (saw)... what would be their fate? so the verse was revealed....

Sabeans have been variously described in the commentaries and history books... from being 'a sect of Judaism', 'a sect of Christianity', 'converts from Judaism to paganism', 'people of the book', 'followers of Noah', 'sun worshippers', 'readers of the Zabur / Psalms', 'those who have no religion', 'those to whom God's message didn't reach' and more

despite all the ambiguity, what is certain is that the Sabeans intended by the Qur'an refers to those who worshipped Allah before the beliefs of such people became corrupted with polytheism etc.