hi you have made through research on it.
hats off!!
i can say it better than this. awesome
something about SU-MKI the radar system is classified.
my man was involved in inuction of it.
first 10 aircrafts were SUMK-1, then later on indian specifications, SUMKI was developed all MK-1 were sent back to russia and MKI were imported.
as far as radar is concerned its classified.
so i dont have any hard data on it.
but my man told me one thing " if one does not feel dizzy while discussing
implication of SUMKI, one does not know what he is talking about".
as an insider i know primary concern of IAF is PLAAF(china).
and all effors on IAF part is channelized towards modernization.
had this been IAF VS PLAAF
i must have told you about them in most analytical way.
with regards,
jeetiaf
hi you have made through research on it. hats off!! i can say it better than this. awesome something about SU-MKI the radar system is classified. my man was involved in inuction of it. first 10 aircrafts were SUMK-1, then later on indian specifications, SUMKI was developed all MK-1 were sent back to russia and MKI were imported. as far as radar is concerned its classified. so i dont have any hard data on it. but my man told me one thing " if one does not feel dizzy while discussing implication of SUMKI, one does not know what he is talking about". as an insider i know primary concern of IAF is PLAAF(china). and all effors on IAF part is channelized towards modernization. had this been IAF VS PLAAF i must have told you about them in most analytical way. with regards, jeetiaf
True indeed! I guess the radar about which I have mentioned was there till 2001 only later they have done some/complete change(s)! I guess because of this classified thing Indians had refused to use their Radar in US Air Space, while participating in Red Flag 2008, reason being the fact that such sensitive technology shouldn't fall in foreign hands.
Re: PAF vs IAF
India’s expansive plans regarding its Air Force (only combat Aircrafts)
AWACS Ilyushin/IAI Phalcon 3 to be placed in service from Jan/Feb 2009, Sept 2009 and Feb, 2010; order for another three in process
PAF’s expansive plans
God, stop yelling hurls and answer my questions!
Re: PAF vs IAF
let's not forget another key issue that befell PAF in the past. They buy some planes but run out of spare parts. The political and economic instability and frequent contract suspensions have played havoc on their procurement and sparing plans.I wouldn't be surprised one bit if cannibalization is rampant
hi
My friends! PAF has such glorious pilots that they are been called by other countries to provide CAPs over their borders. I just want to say that fight between two jets doesn't depend on the maneouverablity or perfection of a jet but depends upon the decision making power and immediate reaction of a pilot. I think i dont need to tell anything about MM Alam, he destroyed Indian HUNTER with his old F-86 in DOGFIGHT. And Not only 1 but 4 and just in 57 sec. This wasn't any miracle but the pilot was miracle and every Pakistani pilot is a miracle. Another example is: My father is a retired Squadroun Leader of PAF. He had a director named SATTAR ALVI. Alvi was providing CAP over Syrian border. meanwhile two Israeli mirages entered in Syria. he was alone in his Mig-21 but responced immediately and hitted a mirage with his ASM Sidewinder. then he chased the 2nd mirage upto israeal. So my friends perfection of a plane depends upon the pilot not on jet OR a jet is nothing but a goat without his shepard
secondly single back fin aircraft mostky makes U manoeuver and double finned makes almost L so due to technalogy it is easy to shoot any U by L. F-86sabre was the first supersonic and HUNTER (SU-22) was subsonic both slow in speed and slow in manoeuver. an easy prey for Sabre. it would take same time of Any IAF pilot to shoot 4 in 57 seconds. thirdly SUMKI can jam other aircraft missile with it classified radar system. and any aircraft is nothing in front of it.
jeetiaf
Technically in a dog fight even if an aircraft is jamming your missiles it can be taken down by aircraft mounted guns, this is what exactly happened in redflag 2008 that India participated in, in that Su30 MKI's with some young pilots where deliberately put in front in a dog flight with USAF F 15's, even though the MKI were jamming the missiles, F15 did take them out with aircraft mounted guns which cannot be jammed, but close combat victory depends upon pilot training and individuals, but to get to the close combat mode the pilot should get near the aircraft and this is where IAF has decade of superiority on PAF.
On most of the IAF fighters iaf has radar from Russia and avionics from India, France and Israel means potentially American technology which can detect PAF fighters 100km before PAF Fighters can detect IAF fighters and Night combat capabilities IAF sure has more than an edge and PAF has hope.
hi,
the Dogfight according to TACDE(TAC-D) situated at Airforce station Maharajpur Gwalior is "the coupled action of manoeuverability of machine and skill of pilot in handling it.
I would reassert that a slow manoeuver aircraft is more vulnerable to fast manoeuver aircraft keeping pilot training and skill as equal.
for example, Sabre jets can defeat Hunter anytime and everytime.
During Red Flag exercise IAF didnt allow its pilots to use classified radar system due to some classified feature of it. This lead to kill them too many friendlies.
Each radar is equipped with IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) so shooting down any aircraft in this case depends on flyer visual range and to identify whether it is friend on foe. Mostly by the lights fitted on the aircraft.
As and when SUMKI jams enemy aircraft missiles it fires its own at the bogey and shoots it down.
This aircraft can take on 16 aircraft at a time and can engage with 4 most fast approaching bogey simultaneously.
Another few more excercises would reveal better capabilities of this aircraft.
This aircraft is in full operational mode whereas comparable f-22 raptor is still undergoing tests. so lets see what happen in next excercises.
with regards,
jeetiaf
Re: PAF vs IAF
[quote]
*
LOL, Pakistanis critcize IAF's MIG-21s eventhough some of their aircrafts (Nanchang A-5) are even worse than that. Except 10 JF-17 and 44 F-16A/B none of your aircrafts are more capable than MIG-21. Now, who will take care of IAF's 80+ Su-30MKIs, 39 Dassault Mirages 2000 , 56 MiG-29s, 114 Jaguars, 120 MiG-27s and 20 MiG-23s
[/quote]
My Friend The Potential of an Air Force is not measured by an Air Craft, but it is measured by the ones Operating it, & i am quite sure that if you see the Record of your Air Force you will get your Answer who is batter & who is not.
PAF had never had advantage over IAF , in Number or in Technology Yet IAF was never able to PAF in the Skies.
Regards
Champ
hi folks
the simple thing is there is far more difference from 1971 and now. in 1971 PAF has godd planes some even better than IAF.
but during kargil when IAF used Mig-29 to provide aircover to Mirage-2000H and PAF has no reply for it. if because of circumstances war break out IAF will be easily able to gain air superiority this time.
Cover news of Aero India show from 11 feb. IAF is going to borrow another 126 MMRCA soon.
PAF has to increase moderanization of itself otherwise self proclaimed "better training" wud not be able to compensate for this.
technology gives better edge and thats why Israel is ahead of all of us
regards
jeetiaf
Re: PAF vs IAF
One of the healthiest and meaniningful discussions I have witnessed on GS in the last seven years.Well done people…
:k:
Re: PAF vs IAF
[quote]
hi folks
the simple thing is there is far more difference from 1971 and now. in 1971 PAF has godd planes some even better than IAF.
but during kargil when IAF used Mig-29 to provide aircover to Mirage-2000H and PAF has no reply for it. if because of circumstances war break out IAF will be easily able to gain air superiority this time.
Cover news of Aero India show from 11 feb. IAF is going to borrow another 126 MMRCA soon.
PAF has to increase moderanization of itself otherwise self proclaimed "better training" wud not be able to compensate for this.
technology gives better edge and thats why Israel is ahead of all of us
regards
jeetiaf
[/quote]
i am sorry but i have to Reject some point of yours,
1. The Reason PAF didn't Retaliate on Kargil was not that they were unable to Fight the Mirage, or Mig29, but was that they didn't wanted to Start a full scale war, you should know that two of IAF Planes were Shot down by Just Using MAN PADS,
Yes i do agree that at the moment PAF is lacking in the Technological department, but still we are not that much behind that we cannot defend our selves, in just around 3-4 years the Moderation plan of PAF will be complete, & then the advantage IAF holds right now , will be Over.
Regards
Champ
Good and informative thread. Just goes to show how constructive a discussion can be when emotions and religion are kept out of the equation.
i am sorry but i have to Reject some point of yours, 1. The Reason PAF didn't Retaliate on Kargil was not that they were unable to Fight the Mirage, or Mig29, but was that they didn't wanted to Start a full scale war, you should know that two of IAF Planes were Shot down by Just Using MAN PADS,
Yes i do agree that at the moment PAF is lacking in the Technological department, but still we are not that much behind that we cannot defend our selves, in just around 3-4 years the Moderation plan of PAF will be complete, & then the advantage IAF holds right now , will be Over.
Regards Champ
hi
the first aircraft was of flt lt k.nachiketa it was a MiG-21 which was unaware of situation at that time. so it was down by using stinger system. Second was MiG-27ML of sqn ldr(late) ajay ahuja who was trying to locate former pilot. once aircraft is beloo 500 ft agl it can be easily targeted.
yes i do agree with your point that there is immidiate requirement of modernization of PAF. and the plan PAF has initiated is still deficient in fromt of plan of acquisition of 126MMRCA of IAF. JF-17 is a good aircraft what if ithas to contend with any of aircraft that IAF planning to take like MiG-35. JAS39Gripen or Eurofighter.
I fear this is not still sufficient on the part of PAF in terms of modernization.
regards
jeetiaf
Re: PAF vs IAF
[quote]
hi
the first aircraft was of flt lt k.nachiketa it was a MiG-21 which was unaware of situation at that time. so it was down by using stinger system. Second was MiG-27ML of sqn ldr(late) ajay ahuja who was trying to locate former pilot. once aircraft is beloo 500 ft agl it can be easily targeted.
yes i do agree with your point that there is immidiate requirement of modernization of PAF. and the plan PAF has initiated is still deficient in fromt of plan of acquisition of 126MMRCA of IAF. JF-17 is a good aircraft what if ithas to contend with any of aircraft that IAF planning to take like MiG-35. JAS39Gripen or Eurofighter.
I fear this is not still sufficient on the part of PAF in terms of modernization.
regards
jeetiaf
[/quote]
The Moderation of PAF does not only jnclude JF-17, JF-17 is just a replacement of F-7, & Mirag, Which is only the 1st part of of PAF modernization.
The 2nd part is to obtain a Fighter good enough to counter Su-30 & Mig 29 beside f-16 Blk 52 that we already have, that is Y we are obtaining j-10,
The 3rd Part is AWACS program so PAF an manage long Range coordinated attack & should be able to counter Any Threat from a Distance This is Part has been Completed & we will have our AWACS in this year,
4rth Part is to obtain a good ground defence vs Fighters that is Y SPADA was obtained & Ft-2000 is in Process.
I hope you understand that we are aware of ever threat which is being imposed by india & are ready to counter each & every one of it.
The Moderation of PAF does not only jnclude JF-17, JF-17 is just a replacement of F-7, & Mirag, Which is only the 1st part of of PAF modernization.
The 2nd part is to obtain a Fighter good enough to counter Su-30 & Mig 29 beside f-16 Blk 52 that we already have, that is Y we are obtaining j-10,
The 3rd Part is AWACS program so PAF an manage long Range coordinated attack & should be able to counter Any Threat from a Distance This is Part has been Completed & we will have our AWACS in this year,
4rth Part is to obtain a good ground defence vs Fighters that is Y SPADA was obtained & Ft-2000 is in Process.
I hope you understand that we are aware of ever threat which is being imposed by india & are ready to counter each & every one of it.
You must go a few pages back and see discussions on the present condition, the future procurement plans and pilot skills of both the Air Forces! I have given more than enough explanations and 'Ctrl C' 'Ctrl V' ain't allowed over here! :P
This is what we have been preaching from last sixty years but to no avail. Your country is not under your democratically elected officials but the chagrined armed forces. I would ask all of you to read these four articles on wikipedia to see the carnage caused by the war b/w out countries:-
Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 ** **Indo-Pakistani War of 1965
Indo-Pakistani War of 1971
*Kargil War * Though the reviews are in our favor but that is not the point, what I want to show is the no. of casualties on both sides. If you people will stop infiltrating our country we wouldn't even have to talk about all this. Taking Islam to the apex can not be accomplished by training suicide bombers or making your own country haven to the vicious terrorists, it should be done by self advancement through science and technology, literature etc. - the way christians and jews did and are even doing now. Open your eyes, see what happened to IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN. If your country will follow the same track the day is not far when Pakistan will be bombed back to the stone age. I know it is hard to believe that your own country has been involved in such brutal business but the Ist step to cure a disease is diagnosis. I believe atleast some of you will agree to what I have said.
You look to be a smart guy who wants clarity and truth. Just look into the Indra-Kessinger plans, the sacking of democratic govt in 1977, the failure of the 'successful deal' between the PPP-PNA, yet martial law enforcement. It was all the backdrop of a bigger plan to engage Pakistan with a possible USSR advancement in the area. The synthetic Islamization of Zia, his obidience to US, CIA funding Millions of $$ for Madersa Network in Pakistan and strengthening ISI. Results? US achieved its goal in Afghanistan. Pakistan and Afghanistan were left with illiterate young militants with guns and ammunation on their disposal. Drugs and AK47 destroyed Pakistani culture. Now just like what they did with Saddam before August 2, 1990 (inviting him to take Kuwait - on record now), they let things get worse in Afghanistan, that resulted in now orphaned ISI interfering with Pushtoon Madersa Students forming Taliban government. Rest you know my friend very well. Indian Embassy in Kabul is the capital of the last phase of US-India plan. Its all about erasing Pakistan from the face of this planet. The ammunation these so called Taliban in Pakistan have is never seen before, even FC and rangers can't fight with them. This can't be an Arab Sheikh sponsorship. Its State terrorism. Pakistani leadership doesn't have balls to openly tell the world who these Talibans are and who is behind them.
If you don't see it, thats OK. But what happened to former US friends like Saddam and many others, gives us ability to see in the future.
Re: PAF vs IAF
You look to be a smart guy who wants clarity and truth. Just look into the Indra-Kessinger plans, the sacking of democratic govt in 1977, the failure of the 'successful deal' between the PPP-PNA, yet martial law enforcement. It was all the backdrop of a bigger plan to engage Pakistan with a possible USSR advancement in the area. The synthetic Islamization of Zia, his obidience to US, CIA funding Millions of $$ for Madersa Network in Pakistan and strengthening ISI. Results? US achieved its goal in Afghanistan. Pakistan and Afghanistan were left with illiterate young militants with guns and ammunation on their disposal. Drugs and AK47 destroyed Pakistani culture. Now just like what they did with Saddam before August 2, 1990 (inviting him to take Kuwait - on record now), they let things get worse in Afghanistan, that resulted in now orphaned ISI interfering with Pushtoon Madersa Students forming Taliban government. Rest you know my friend very well. Indian Embassy in Kabul is the capital of the last phase of US-India plan. Its all about erasing Pakistan from the face of this planet. The ammunation these so called Taliban in Pakistan have is never seen before, even FC and rangers can't fight with them. This can't be an Arab Sheikh sponsorship. Its State terrorism. Pakistani leadership doesn't have balls to openly tell the world who these Talibans are and who is behind them.
If you don't see it, thats OK. But what happened to former US friends like Saddam and many others, gives us ability to see in the future.
Golden words bro!
Re: PAF vs IAF
given current situation where the Pakistan military has not bee able to defend against daily attacks on its own citizenry, don't even compare it with IAF or any other regular force