*New world has emerge from rubbles of WTC(twin towers),before they even fell drum beats of war was in the air.1st Anniversary is coming in few weeks.Where world stand in these past 11 months? NO body knows what exactly happening.are we as human race moving forward toward a better world or majority of us have our heads tucked in sand hoping that we won’t get hurt by unknown fear.
Fear is the most disgusting feelings someone can have in this era, where people are talking about revolutionary wirless technology,commercial trip to space,hybrid cars and etc.While west is struggling to fight Obesity east is trying to survive from malnutrition.Is this one world or simply two different worlds.if they are two different world then why can they be on 2 different ways? why one force is trying to control both worlds? who’s afraid of who? are they really afraid of us or its US, (like china town in Newyork where chinese Mafia collects money from chinese businesses to provide safety from mafia it self).So they are in Japan some 53,000 troops as of today, they are in Taiwan,S.korea,germany … list goes on and on,so basically they are scattered all over the world in order to protect us from One World power which happen to be themselves.
Yesterday was 57th anniversary of first destruction in this world brought by America to Japanese.Mayor of Hiroshima Tadatoshi Akiba (former asst.prof. of Mathematics at Turfts University in Boston)
surprisingly condemn U.S foreign policies and its unilateralism.Same protest was mentioned in speaches by ruling party leaders(Liberal Democratic party).In Europe MR. Gerhard Schroeder,the german chancellor has expressed strong reservations about any military attack on Iraq, he added that “such a move could destroy the international alliance set up following the 11 September attacks”. Malaysian and Iranian presidents in last months meetings condemn American acts of wars. More suprisingly Musharraf has said in his Newsweek interview that " He didn’t think it was Osama behind those attacks of Sept.11, he can be financier, supporter or motivator but he didn’t planned or carried it out …".
Growing differences between U.S and Saudia is raising Question about their Friendship.Heavy investment in Nigeria to Drill more Oil,friendly hand toward Russia(currently supplying 10% of u.s Oil needs) while having Venezuela(Leading Oil producer after Saudia) in back pocket drowned in debt.U.s can crumble saudia in months if not weeks, which is bound to happen its just a matter of time when saudia can Drink their Oil because no one in the market will buy.
But after all this U.s is forgetting one thing which was common in dominating power as we look into our history. we can look back to fall of Roman empire to byzantine Empire ,Arab to Ottoman Empire and most recently British empire.All those Empire were different in their regional boundaries, ethnicity,race and religion but one thing was Very COMMON among them , they all fell and left traces in history.
**Hercules once thought that he is so powerful he can spit up in the air far to make it disappear and he tried but what happened after few seconds he had his spit all over his face. ***
[This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited August 07, 2002).]
What you say and point to has great merit. Many in US do indulge in hubris and could do with more humility. No doubt about it. There is one difference from the past that you quote: The ship is getting smaller and we, humans regardless of nationality, are all in the same boat. We have to figure out how to get along. There are going to be 14 to 15 Billion of us within this century, and very difficult to feed even if we all pull togather. Human misery stares us in our faces and most of our grand children will surely live in a very constrained and hardship laden world. Having said that, it also behooves us to see who and what organizations we can work with that can bring understanding and peace. Dissing USA all the time just isn't the answer.
[quote]
Originally posted by OldLahori:
What you say and point to has great merit. Many in US do indulge in hubris and could do with more humility. No doubt about it. There is one difference from the past that you quote: The ship is getting smaller and we, humans regardless of nationality, are all in the same boat. We have to figure out how to get along. There are going to be 14 to 15 Billion of us within this century, and very difficult to feed even if we all pull togather. Human misery stares us in our faces and most of our grand children will surely live in a very constrained and hardship laden world. Having said that, it also behooves us to see who and what organizations we can work with that can bring understanding and peace. Dissing USA all the time just isn't the answer.
[/quote]
- I wasn't gonna reply you but changed my mind.Why do you think i'm dissing USA? If it was Sweden i would say the same thing.Living in U.S doesn't mean that you have to be loyal dog for good or bad everyhting.And regarding your concern about humanitarian issues, the best thing could happen to us if U.S get the F**k out of other countries and stop controlling their internal and finanacial issues.believe me World will be better place in decade or two.
Yeah its all Americas fault,again.Funny how you bring up Japan and mention American destruction on Japan but you don't mention they(Japan) ATTACKED America first and declared war on us but hey thats ok.Just because there is a army base in alot of countries doesn't mean we control their money and goverment i.e.Cuba,S.A.,Germany just to name a few we don't control them.You did get one thing right though the drums of war were beating before the WTC fell, the cowards flying the planes and the people backing them were banging them as they flew into thousands of innocent people.
[quote]
Originally posted by just2much:
Yeah its all Americas fault,again.Funny how you bring up Japan and mention American destruction on Japan but you don't mention they(Japan) ATTACKED America first and declared war on us but hey thats ok.Just because there is a army base in alot of countries doesn't mean we control their money and goverment i.e.Cuba,S.A.,Germany just to name a few we don't control them.You did get one thing right though the drums of war were beating before the WTC fell, the cowards flying the planes and the people backing them were banging them as they flew into thousands of innocent people.
[/quote]
Isn't time for you to play PS2 or listen Eminem or Jay-z.seriously you sound like some teenager who just happened to watch Cnn occasionally or finally paid atention to History class.Anyway i would answer you even though its waste of time. Japs attack and drop planes on battleships not on any city Killing some 220,000 innocents.What do you think 53,000 Troops doing in japan today? Same goes in Germany,Go ask Clinton Administration How much Saudi's have Paid since 1992-1999.(over $ 67 Bil.)Do you think U.S Govt is doing Social work in the world? well if they really are then send their troops to Africa where whole region is in Chaos due to civil war.anyway this should be enough to knock some sense in you.
[This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited August 08, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
** * I wasn't gonna reply you but changed my mind.Why do you think i'm dissing USA? If it was Sweden i would say the same thing.Living in U.S doesn't mean that you have to be loyal dog for good or bad everyhting.And regarding your concern about humanitarian issues, the best thing could happen to us if U.S get the F*k out of other countries and stop controlling their internal and finanacial issues.believe me World will be better place in decade or two.*
[/quote]
I did not mean that you were dissing USA. I was merely referring to many of the arguments that are posted. I agree with you, and side with the isolationists at times. However, I don't think given the technology and industrial state of the world that it is possible to operate as if the ultimate reality is the nation-state of the 19th-20th century. Regardless we live in a small world where the greed of the many honchos of the Multi-National Corps. just emptied out the retirement of Old Americans, devestates many parts of the world, spreads propoganda making it nearly impossible to know what is true and what is not.
The closest analogy I can think of is the East India company! The British finally decided that they better take over the "property" of the company and run them like colonies with Chinese or Indians and Dogs not allowed signs. The American Government just is not going to go that route because it cannot, and we were left with this hodge podge of semi imperialist, semi commercial, mess of an evolving international order. In this evolution US, China, Europe, etc. are the big players and the rest are divvied up into blocs; it is their interactions that are going to set up the rules. Hopefully and mercifully some sort of sensible international order will emerge in the coming decades.
[This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited August 08, 2002).]
History class should also teach you about Japanese war crimes committed from 1931-1945 which killed hundreds of thousands.
Hopefully the class would also include how US rebuilt Europe and Japan after the war.
And maybe its not enough for some of you (but it is for US taxpayers), US humanitarian aid to foreign nations dwarfs that of any other country in history.
[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
**
History class should also teach you about Japanese war crimes committed from 1931-1945 which killed hundreds of thousands.
Hopefully the class would also include how US rebuilt Europe and Japan after the war.
And maybe its not enough for some of you (but it is for US taxpayers), US humanitarian aid to foreign nations dwarfs that of any other country in history.
**
[/quote]
Seminole: There is little doubt that US strides across the globe as a Giant. Frankly, the technology, science and inovation that US has generated has changed the world. Whether it was the Green revolution of 1960's, or the satellite communication of the 80's, or the internet of the 90's, it has been changing the world faster than what many countries and people can adapt to. None of the above can be rolled back. Can we stop the biological revolution that is rolling out of the labs across the US and Europe right now? Americans do not have the luxury of going isolationists. Whether we like it or not, Americans are going to be one of the big players in evolving the political international order under which various nations and blocs of nations will operate in the forseeable future.
[quote]
Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
** Japs attack and drop planes on battleships not on any city Killing some 220,000 innocents.
[This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited August 08, 2002).]**
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Not to mention the deaths of 1.5 million muslims in Iraq.
[This message has been edited by usman_khalil (edited August 08, 2002).]
BTW, Jahanzaib, trying on these brainwashed people is not worth it, they will always try to prove another person wrong with facts that come from the most believeable news source of the world... cnn.
Their beloved cnn has addicted them, just like when a person is addicted to nicotine.
They just dont get what american media is trying to do, its just gives Islam even a worse name day-by-day.
Perhaps its time for someone to remind them to read the history again, see how much america has harmed this world just to get his own interest.
Usman Khalil
Is the major problem US military presence in some Muslim countries, like Saudi Arabia? If the US were ever involved in putting down any internal dissent there, it would not be very well taken by a large part of the world. The US does not control the Japanese economy, it is very much a Japanese setup. The Germans, also, have an independence. Britain invested in the US, from early on. That is more give and take. Up until the '80's, generally, each nation did well and exported as an addition to domestic consumption. Now, it is global competition that is the goal. The results of the general welfare aspects to this are yet to be proven or explained.
[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
**
History class should also teach you about Japanese war crimes committed from 1931-1945 which killed hundreds of thousands.
Hopefully the class would also include how US rebuilt Europe and Japan after the war.
And maybe its not enough for some of you (but it is for US taxpayers), US humanitarian aid to foreign nations dwarfs that of any other country in history.
**
[/quote]
- No offence, i bet you have learned your history from CNN & Fox.Japanese War crime is not a justification for dropping Nuclear bombs.ever wonder why U.S didn't drop Bomb on Germany? Germans have done pretty much same thing,when German Torpedo's were sinking U.S battle ships in Atlantic Ocean. Let me tell you why U.S didn't Drop N.Bomb on Germany after everything Germans did because at the end they were White Aryan brothers to U.s.
Now about rebuilding Germany and Japan after War! if you happen to know both countries are still paying that price by not having any national Military force.check yuor facts and you will know that both countries pays to have U.s bases in their countries.
well its time,U.S taxpayers should ask their Govt. for balance sheet of their hard earned tax dollars.No one need swamp in disguise of Humanitarian help.i really wanna laugh at you now,you really think U.S is biggest philanthropist in this World*.
[This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited August 08, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
** * No offence, i bet you have learned your history from CNN & Fox.Japanese War crime is not a justification for dropping Nuclear bombs.ever wonder why U.S didn't drop Bomb on Germany? Germans have done pretty much same thing,when German Torpedo's were sinking U.S battle ships in Atlantic Ocean. Let me tell you why U.S didn't Drop N.Bomb on Germany after everything Germans did because at the end they were White Aryan brothers to U.s.
Now about rebuilding Germany and Japan after War! if you happen to know both countries are still paying that price by not having any national Military force.check yuor facts and you will know that both countries pays to have U.s bases in their countries.
well its time,U.S taxpayers should ask their Govt. for balance sheet of their hard earned tax dollars.No one need swamp in disguise of Humanitarian help.i really wanna laugh at you now,you really think U.S is biggest philanthropist in this World*.
**
[/quote]
You are hung up on CNN dude. No, I learned my history in schools throughout my life, a lot of it probably before you were even born.
I'm not saying Japanaese attrocities justified nuking Japan. I am pointing out US actions in past 100 years as a world power pale in comparison to the barbaric actions of many other countries. Check your facts: Twice as many white aryan German civlians died due to Allied bombing than Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs.
Japan and Europe have received far more in US military aid than they have ever paid.
And no, I really don't think U.S is biggest philanthropist in this World - I know that US is the biggest philantropist in the history of this world. Italicize that.
[This message has been edited by Seminole (edited August 09, 2002).]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole:
** You are hung up on CNN dude. No, I learned my history in schools throughout my life, a lot of it probably before you were even born.**
You must be reading books written by Henry Kissinger.even then you were flipping pages instead of reading and you did all that before i was born. Whats that suppose to mean? are you telling me age is certification of Knowledge & intelligence? I hope you were right atleast you wouldn't be arguing with me here.
I'm not saying Japanaese attrocities justified nuking Japan. I am pointing out US actions in past 100 years as a world power pale in comparison to the barbaric actions of many other countries. Check your facts: Twice as many white aryan German civlians died due to Allied bombing than Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs.
When i talk about Hiroshima/Nagasaki its not about Death of innocents.its about terror and after math reaction of those bombs.Yeah you are right about U.S action as superpower, they don't take barbaric actions after N.bomb they change their values now they just put Sanctions through World Bank, IMF and U.N.
Japan and Europe have received far more in US military aid than they have ever paid.
If thats true then Damn,U.S got fooled not once twice.I knew Japs and Nazi are smarter then Americans.
And no, I really don't think U.S is biggest philanthropist in this World - I know that US is the biggest philantropist in the history of this world. Italicize that.
You have to be Bush to say that.are you Bush? no serioulsy, are you? becaue i see too much resemblance in what you said and what Bush said "Sahron is man of Peace".
[This message has been edited by Jahanzaib (edited August 09, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
**
[QUOTE]
are you telling me age is certification of Knowledge & intelligence? **
[/quote]
Wisdom, my Guppy friend. The word is wisdom. Although age does not certify wisdom, you don't attain it without the experience that comes with age.
[quote]
Originally posted by myvoice:
** Wisdom, my Guppy friend. The word is wisdom. Although age does not certify wisdom, you don't attain it without the experience that comes with age.
**
[/quote]
Wisdom, my Guppy friend. The word is wisdom, but you didn't read what i was talking about.Arguing history has very little to do with wisdom but knowledge. And i argue that experience comes with age only. I think different experiences happened to us through our life styles.its up to us how much we learned from it.so its more like your extracting ability then age.let me give you an example. Two friends same age, same school.one boy goes home after school playing Ps2 and doing stuff.2nd boy is raise by single mother, he gets off school and have part time job to help his mom, he happen to meet more people every day then his friend meets in a month.They both are sharp kids but i let you decide who gets more experience.
[quote]
Arguing history has very little to do with wisdom but knowledge.
[/quote]
Wrong again. I suppose to know that understanding history has everything to do with wisdom, comes with wisdom. History is more than names, dates and numbers.
[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
**
Wrong again. I suppose to know that understanding history has everything to do with wisdom, comes with wisdom. History is more than names, dates and numbers.
**
[/quote]
well you couldn't reply what we were arguing then you jumped in for this one but its o.k.My friend Wisdom has everyhting to do in our daily life and Future but when we talk about History which already had happened centuries ago their is very little left in books for our wisdom.all we can do to use our wisdom and try to understand Why U.s is not learning from Past emperors,why every super power thought and now thinks that they will rule the world for ever? specially when History proved that to be very wrong.
Jahanzaib it seems you have a sharp tongue for telling people that they have inadequate education as far as their world affairs/history knowledge is concerned. The only thing inadequate though is your judgement of people that you know little about. Hold your stereotypes for after class on the playground.
What are trying to say about America anyway? Yes they have done wrong as well as good. Yes world powers have fallen in the past and will in the future. Running around rejoicing that some day the U.S. will fall from power is on queue with those who run around with signs that say the "world is ending", there is no value in it and brings nothing new to the table. Leave the predicting to Nostradamus.
[quote]
Originally posted by Jahanzaib:
** Arguing history has very little to do with wisdom but knowledge. *
[/quote]
I also have to disagree with you Jahanzaib. Very different perspectives of history are available to people. For instance, the Palestinians are taught a version that is different than the Israelis. As you have yourself indicated, media sources report "events" and facts very differently. Historians record things based on their own perspectives and biases.
It could be said that the most knowledgeable person would be the person who has read and knows every different version of history and events that has ever been written by every possible source. Out of this hodge-podge, it can be said that truth and understanding derive from wisdom.