Out of control, as usual

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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ISI thuggery agianst the people they are supposed to protect continues, this time they even beat up 80 yr old war heros. :disgust:

Still too busy beating their own defenceless countrymen to actually win any wars

Is anybody safe from these thugs? Not surprising when the country is an
unaccountable dictatorship:

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

As if there wasn’t enough excitement on the national scene already, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has once again lived up to its reputation of being in no one’s control. Roughing up civilians hardly raises any eyebrows. But agency operatives barging into the house of a retired brigadier and roughing up his family members right in the heart of Islamabad takes the cake. This after a quarrel between two sets of youngsters, presumably one of them related to someone high in ISI.

Ansar Abbasi deserves praise for breaking the story. According to it, an SI raiding party led by a major barged into the house of the retired brigadier, dragged out two of his grandsons and when the boys’ mother tried to intervene, picked her up too, an example of the ISI’s idea of chivalry almost calculated to take your breath away.

Two other boys were picked up from a house some distance away. The youngsters, four in all, were beaten black and blue before being abandoned, along with the mother, at a deserted spot later that night.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm

This twice decorated officer retired from the army as a brigadier, and for many years has been living peacefully in his home (his castle?) in Islamabad. Peacefully, that is, until nine days ago. Why — is explained in a letter sent by Brigadier Taj to President General Pervez Musharraf on July 2 :

“Last night, an ISI major in plainclothes who called himself Tipu, with some 10 men also in plainclothes, armed with automatic weapons, entered my house and beat me, my daughter-in-law and my two grandsons.

“They kidnapped us and took us away to a deserted location where they threatened us with death if my grandson did not cooperate with them in identifying the children who had been involved in a playground incident with the relatives of a senior ISI officer.

“I told them that I was not aware of the incident but could ask the people in the neighbourhood to identity the children involved. We were brought to Faizabad in a convoy of at least five vehicles where the major proceeded to threaten the residents, and beat up and kidnapped another two boys. My daughter-in-law and grandsons were sent away to an undisclosed location by the major. In the meantime, a crowd of local residents gathered, freed me and took the major into custody. The Islamabad police, who had been called by the residents, arrived and took the major away.” Brigadier Taj went to the I-9 police station, filed an FIR, and then another ISI officer (also in plainclothes) appeared. Taj explained the situation to him, and the officer, a Colonel Nisar, ordered the release of Taj’s daughter-in-law and grandsons. They were dropped at a deserted location near his house in Sector I-8/4 an hour or so later. All three had torn clothes and were bruised and battered.

His letter ends : “I am 80 years old now and can only look to you, Sir, as the President of Pakistan and the Chief of the Pakistan Army that I also proudly served, to restore my dignity as an ex-army officer and protect my basic rights as a citizen of Pakistan, and to order immediate action against all officials involved in this criminal act.”

There were many witnesses to the incident that took place on the night of July 1. Three houses on Street 86, I-8/4 were targeted by armed men in two separate cavalcades of double-cabined vehicles. From one house, an ailing teenager awaiting heart surgery was dragged out of his house, thrown on to the street, beaten and then thrown into one of the vehicles. His mother tried to come to his aid but she was pushed aside, her clothes torn, and she also was loaded into a vehicle. Brigadier Taj was slapped, pushed, roughed up, and pushed into one of the double cabins, and the cavalcades sped away.

The mother and her sons were taken to the G-9 office of the ISI while Brigadier Taj was taken to Faizabad to identify the other teenagers involved. Two other boys were picked up and sent to an agency ‘safe house

Major ‘Tipu’ is supposedly a Pakistan Military Academy-trained man. What sort of men does this proud institution spawn, and who teaches them what?

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if any ex-army is not spared, civilian can just pray to be away from these so called ISI- Inter Services Idiots!

RD is it your name that people are not posting here or they are scared of ISI?

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Re: Out of control, as usual

:) I'm sure it's the fact that Army boot lickers simply have nothing to say,

there is no way they can defend this.

accents.......
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Re: Out of control, as usual

If respected men within the establishment cannot save themselves from the brutality of the ISI, imagine what the neglected class of Sindhis, Balochis etc. goes through at the hands of ISI. They have no recourse within the system to ask for justice. So it should be no surprise to know that they have turned to extreme ethnic nationalism.

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Re: Out of control, as usual

Sindhis neglected? What have you been smoking....Three out of 4 Prime Minsters have been Sindhis...and if they are still neglected, then don't look furhter then the extreme feudal culture that exists in the interior Sindh and PPP Stalwarts whose constituency is Sindh, and who have not done zilch to alleviate the situation...

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I’m not talking about the power elite. When it comes to elite, even a Balochi sardar was PM for a short time. But when it comes to the masses, Sindhis of all kind are clearly neglected.

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Re: Out of control, as usual

This was a huge shock. I really credit Ardeshir Cowasjee for his efforts in helping people suffering such problems. He always extends help and ppl find a real saviour in him.
It's a shame what this major did. He should be courtmartialled asap. such men dont deserve to serve the army. What a shame. And such treatment to a war hero in his 80s. I hope Gen Mush would take stren action asap. It is a case of abusing authority and that too for immoral or indecent personal matters. those involved definitely deserve courtmartial. and Brig Taj deserves an official apology.

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And who is responsible for that...your own Sindhi feudal lords and their cohorts the politicians of PPP...

But unlike Balochistan...Sindhi politicians and elite has had more access to resources and opportunities to improve their situation...So if anybody the blame should squarely be on the shoulders of PPP...the supposed "people's" party, dubbed as the best thing to have happened to the poor awam, founded and lead by the most dynamic meglomanica of our time Bhattu...why the frick did he not deliver for his own constituency...

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Yes, of course, waderas support the highest bidder, PPP, army or anyone else. It's the masses that suffer between the power plays of who controls the state machinery.

Anyway, the point is that if retired army heros can be treated in such a way, the middle class from Sindh or Balochistan who support their nationalist struggles have no chance to save themselves from ISI antics. Remember, that most feudals are actually supportive of the army rule and establishment politics, since that is where they get power from.

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Re: Out of control, as usual

yes, its powerfull elite vs poor people of Pakistan. not focused on any ethinic group as you portray. now this punjabi ex officer become only an retired army officer, but if he happened to related to sindh or balochistan, you could have branded this was against ethinic basis.

so dont make everything ethinically biased. fact is its all the power hungry elite vs people of Pakistan regardless of ethnicity.

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Re: Out of control, as usual

Shak, there aren't too many Sindhi or Balochi speaking army officers to begin with, so that wouldn't even be an issue to bring up. Of course Punjabis suffer as well in Pakistan and I've never denied that, nor have I ever said that Punjabis are the only ones responsible for the morass that Pakistan finds itself in.

However, what is undeniably true is that the smaller provinces get neglected more than even Punjab's poor in many cases. Just look at these forums, majority of Punjabis will support the army dictatorship and rule over Pakistan without any moral reservations, but majority of Sindhis, Balochis and Pashtuns will be against army rule. Why do you think there is such a large divide in opinion along ethnic lines? And let me tell you it's not because Punjabi brains work differently than others, it's because elite Punjabis and to some extent elite Mohajirs know that they control Pakistan as their own personal fiefdom.

How many people are willing to speak against torture, killings, and detentions by ISI? From what I can see, the majority are silent. How many people have called Musharraf on his lies of water wastage in the Indus? Other than Sindhis, not many at all. How can we unify as a nation, when the majority ethnicity is so easily willing to overlook the facts and support the army even when they have been wrong so many times (Taliban, Jihadis, Kashmir, Kargil, Nuclear proliferation etc.)? Can you imagine a democratic government getting away with the blunder that army has been able to get away with?

If Musharraf was a civilian prime minister or president in any moderately functioning democracy, he would have been kicked out on his ass right after the AQ Khan scandal broke let alone all the other debacles under him. Yet, because of the largest province supports him, he cannot be touched. Yes, there is no denying that feudal and tribal leaders from other provinces support the army, but most of the population in the smaller provinces are against undemocratic rule, since they lose the most in those times.

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[quote]
Yet, because of the largest province supports him, he cannot be touched.
[/quote]
I beg to disagree with this perception, and I think you would second me if you knew the views of ordianry Punjabis. My perception is that Musharraf has greater support in Karachi than in Lahore, Multan etc. But, an average Punjabi is more likely to support army as an institution than an average Muhajir, Sindhi or Baloch.

Political parties (PML-Q, Patriots, MQM) are only interested in gaining power and allow themselves to be used by military leaders. It's easy to manipulate parties when they know who the boss is. Even Karachi based leaders of MQM have recently indicated that they are ready to form the next government with PPP under Musharraf regime. Musharraf is said to be helping them extend their influence beyond Sindh, which, in my opinion, is not a bad thing in itself. There is little doubt that many liberal Punjabis support Musharraf because they see him as an antidote to Zia era. For this liberal class, Nawaz Sharif, though democratically elected, was rather retrogressive and Benazir proved herself an inefficient and corrupt leader (thanks to her husband). These liberals in Punjab and other provinces are probably not ready to face the 'pains of democracy'.

Nevertheless, my perception is that Urban Sindhis are more supportive of Musharraf than Punjabis. But Punjabis and to some extent Pashtuns are more supportive of the army as an institution.

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I’d disagree with that, the PML (Pervaiz Musharraf League) is his real support base, the party has virtually no party wise presence in Sind (even less so in karachi) what they do have is a few constituency influentials and the Pir of Pagaro. So even if we were to take the present assemblies at face value, the only province where the PML is the majority party is Punjab, similarly most of the defections from the PPP that have occurred have been from Punjab.

The MQM was in Mushs bad books till as late as just before the elections, it did not support his referendum and the government forced it to boycott the first local elections because Mush had made a deal with the JI.

Reasonable priced outfits please?
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Re: Out of control, as usual

zakk, maybe I'm privy to more information when it comes to ordinary people of Punjab. Nawaz was far more popular leader than Musharraf in Punjab. PML has been divided and is being manipulated by Mushy NOT Punjabis. You can call PML-Q PML-M. There is no difference. As far as MQM is concerned they are clever guys. They know how to play their cards. They would get all the support from Mushy and still cry foul.

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I am well aware of urban punjabs preference for Nawaz Sharif. But my point still stands the PML is the largest party in Punjab. As is the tradition of provincial politics in Punjab, it's electorate is divided between pro and anti establishment voters. And as is also the tradition the pro establishment voters are the biggest group.
,
The same can't be said of the MQM which only allied with Mush after an agreement in 2002 on the shutting down of the no go areas, the governorship as well as a commitment on provincial autonomy. I can understand the MQMs predicament post 2002 elections, it was loath to support the PPP and was equally aware Mush was not going to allow the PPP survive in power(without a deal confirming his position) and neither could the PPP clean up the no-go areas or offer the Governorship to the MQM.

To Karachi voters credit they have a healthy tradition of opposing the establishment(with some unfortunate exceptions) electorally ever since Ayub khan vs Fatima Jinnah in 1964 .

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The tradition of opposing the establishment is not healthy or sick. You don’t oppose every establised thing only because it is establised. You try to change things for the better regardless of whether these things were newly formed or well-established.

Urban Punjab was not the only group that had a preference for Nawaz Sharif, as is evident from the results of the election that brought him into office. He also won ‘a few’ seats from other provinces. Now the vote bank of Muslim League has been divided not only by the divisions within the league but by the ARD style shenanigans as well.

People know that Nawaz can not come to power even if they vote for him. People also know that Hashmi (the new PML-N chief) can not become the prime minister either, as long as Musharraf is the boss. As a result people have to switch their loyalties. Not all of them. Many of them still voted for anti-Musharraf parties. Liaqat Baloch was elected from a constituencey in Lahore. I have spent enough time in Lahore to know that people of that constituency are not Jamati supporters. But Nawaz, thanks to ARD style shenanigans, decided to support Baloch’s candidature and allowed JI to take the seat. You would see these kind of ‘compromises’ and manipulations throughout Punjab and other provinces. So it vexes me a great deal when people say that Punjabis are all behind Musharraf because he, after deposing Nawaz, is somehow working for Punjabis at the cost of everyone else. Rubbish!! Why is Iltaf a hero for Mushy? And why is Nawaz a traitor?

The day Nawaz Sharif was allowed to fly to KSA, Dawn stated that Sindhis would feel bad because ‘their’ prime minister was hanged, while Nawaz was allowed to go into exile. (Not exact words). What does it mean? Dawn wanted to hang Nawaz as well?

In Time magazine (or was it Newsweek?), a journalist wrote that when Nawaz sacked Musharraf, his Mohajir journalist friend told him that Nawaz had sacked a Mohajir and appointed a Punjabi as COAS. The author of the article was happy to see Mushy holding two puppies, and his friend must have felt good because Nawaz was sacked for sacking a Mohajir.

Yea, now Mushy is a Punjabi for everyone!

Don’t know why some people are unable to grow out of their ethnocentrism.

And by the way, congrats to Iltaf Bhai…

](http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/13/nat1.htm)

](http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/13/local22.htm)
Victory of MQM’s philosophy? Good one!

And hey, Mushy could be bad, but not as bad as those anti-establishment forces which want to turn the country into Afghanistan or a satellite state of India. You know anarchists and the fifth columnists always have an anti-establishment attitude.

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I want someone to confirm these stats for 2002 elections.

PML (Q) 25% of popular vote, 126 seats.
PPPP 25% of popular vote, 81 seats.
MMA 11% of popular vote, 63 seats.
PML (N) 10% of popular vote, 19 seats.
MQM 3% of popular vote, 17 seats.
ANP 1% of popular vote.

All major parties accounted for? I have a question: were these elections a true reflection of people's political ('pro-establishment' and 'anti-establishment') loyalties? I still can not find the province wise break up of almost 50% (PPP, MMA, PML-N etc.) 'anti-establishment' popular vote. We must consider a candidate an anti-establishment candidate if he was voted in from an anti-Musharraf platform. Is my definition right?

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Although i routinely play this game with both PPPliya and other people, it is deceptive to rely on %age of votes polled in a first past the vote system. The figures you’ve quoted exclude most of the independents and National alliance votes, it also does not take into account subsequent byelections and defections.
As you correctly pointed out the average voter in lahore or peshawar or karachi for that matter may support Nawaz but won’t vote for him if they think he can’t win (much the same would be shown in surveys about the MMA or Imran Khan). Still his main hold is in urban Punjab, in part because it is harder to manipulate things in urban settings. He does have pockets of support in the NWFP, Baluchistan and in sindh but as he is not in the country those who vote solely on the basis of Nawaz Sharif are the only people in PML-N who will come out to vote.

As a rule in Pakistan during military rule, nationally votes split into pro and anti establishment, normally during the controlled democracy phases when the establishment operates in the background the vote used to be PPP and anti PPP.

Anyway if you want I can post a province wise break down of votes. I’d also like to correct you I never said Punjab was pro Musharraf, it is pro establishment and the establishment vote is the biggest vote bank in the Punjab (i specify the word biggest and not majority, I also accept the Punjab has voted anti establishment overwhelmingly once..in the 1970 election).

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More on disappearences

Insufficient explanations

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

LAST week I wrote about the distinguished retired army officer, Brigadier Mohammed Taj, SJ and Bar, who, on July 1, was assaulted by an Inter-Services Intelligence major. Since then, it has been reported that President General Pervez Musharraf did the right thing and telephoned the brigadier to express his regrets.

No doubt, the general will ensure that if circumstances warrant that he run such agencies that function as does the ISI, some efforts will be made to enlist better men — if that be at all possible.

I also wrote about a couple of ‘missing’ men who had been ‘picked up’ by our agencies, and also about the hearing of six petitions pertaining to illegal detentions that had been heard by Justices Anwar Zaheer Jamali and Mohammad Afzal Soomro of the Sindh High Court on July 11.

The court had summoned a serving officer, Lt Colonel Khalid Iqbal Sahoo, Assistant Judge Advocate-General, who wears the uniform of the army. He filed on behalf of the ISI and Military Intelligence a comment which stated that both these agencies were under the administrative control of the defence ministry but that the ministry had no operational control over them. His contention was that the six detainees were neither picked up nor were they sought in any case, nor were they held in custody. In short, no trace of the six had been found.

Now we have the case of two missing nephews of Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti — Bilal Bugti and Murtaza Bugti. On July 17 the Sindh High Court issued notices to the advocate-general of Sindh and others summoning them to appear on July 25 in the matter of a petition filed by Bilal’s father, Haji Mir Hasan Bugti. Allegedly, the two were picked up on July 14 by members of one of our law enforcement agencies that constantly transgress the law. The two men have not been produced before any court nor do their families know where they are.

Presumably, the government lawyers who will attend on notice will make the same noises as did Colonel Sahoo and perhaps another JAG officer will be called to produce another statement on behalf of the defence ministry shrugging off its responsibility.

But can it shrug off responsibility? Let us take the statement of Colonel Sahoo at face its value and assume, against all odds, that he stated the truth, the entire truth, and nothing but the truth. He conceded that the defence ministry had administrative control over the ISI.

The distinction between administrative and operational control is simple to understand. What it means is that the ministry has power to appoint, to remove, to determine policy, and to identify objectives, but the ISI is given discretion as to how to proceed, depending on local circumstances.

It is as if a master gives a task to a servant and leaves the precise method to achieve that task within his discretion. It is obvious that in such circumstances the ministry has the right to seek a report at any time as to what is the precise status of the operation, so as to enable it to determine the success of the operation and, if necessary, to remove or transfer the officers carrying it out for their unsatisfactory or illegal performance.

It is inconceivable that the ISI officers can refuse to give a report to the defence ministry (and therefore to the High Court) as to when and why they have detained the men in question and where these men have been detained. A refusal is clear contempt of court, both by the ministry and by the ISI.

However, this time, on July 25, the Chief Justice of the Sindh High Court, Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed is presiding over the bench and he will be quite within his rights to ask the ministry to submit a truthful reply, and, what is all important, stress that it accept legal responsibility for the actions of its agencies.

After all, the liberty of two men, presumed innocent, is involved. It is expected that the government, for all practical purposes headed by a law and Constitution-abiding President, General Pervez Musharraf, will do nothing — repeat, nothing.

Now, over to a press report of July 20, the headline reads ‘Defence secretary confirms lack of operational control over ISI, MI.’ In yet another case of a missing person, this time Munir Mengal, who heads a Dubai-based television channel called ‘Voice of Baloch,’ the defence secretary, retired Lt Gen Tariq Waseem Ghazi, confirmed in a sworn affidavit filed in the Sindh High Court on July 19 that his ministry had no operational control over the two rogue agencies and therefore was unable to enforce the court’s order on either agency in matters relating to detentions. It could only pass on directions — that was all.

Mengal’s wife has filed a petition accusing ‘some law enforcement agencies’ of having picked up her husband on his arrival in Karachi from Dubai on April 4, after which date he simply disappeared. The defence secretary’s affidavit also mentioned the fact that the ISI and MI had been asked to locate Mengal and produce him before the court, but that both had denied any knowledge of his arrest or detention.

On July 20, Chief Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed and Justice Mohammad Afzal Soomro sat to hear ten petitions challenging the ‘detention’ of ten men. They expressed their misgivings over the statements of the defence secretary and the assistant JAG and asked the government counsel to separately file details of what, if any, efforts have been made by the government to locate or recover the various missing ‘detainees.’

As they rightly observed, “Merely filing a statement that the law enforcement agencies have neither arrested nor detained the detainee is not a sufficient explanation against the background that the arrest of the citizens is attributed to the law enforcement agencies.”

Of paramount importance is the fact — if we really are not a banana republic — that we cannot just have people disappearing without trace and a government that makes excuses and pleads ignorance and, thus, helplessness. As it is, we are undoubtedly a Third World country — though some may demur at this. But do we really want to sink lower, or is the aim to rise? Why should the people of Pakistan suffer because of the follies, faults and foibles of their governments?

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