Ottomans in 1500 AD

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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By 1500,

250 years had already passed since the Mongol destruction of Abbasi’s Baghdad
200 years had gone by since the utter defeat of Muslims in Spain

50 years more and Ottomans were taking their last breath.

On the other hand, in Europe, the tide was already turning. In 1500, Oxford was home to a 300 years old college (Morton). Scientific discoveries, especially in metallurgy had already established itself in major European cities. Ottomans were severely lagging behind and solely dependent on European steel.

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Seems like a Jewish Radio Channel :hehe:

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Re: MAToos: in 1500 AD

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
By 1500,

50 years more and Ottomans were taking their last breath.

[/QUOTE]

that was one hell of a long breath....
it lasted even till the 20th century....

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Actually, Ottoman power was still awe-inspiring by 1500. It was only by 1700 that their nation weakened.

Remember, less than 200 years later they were knocking on the gates of Vienna, less than 200 years later they not only recovered from the elimination of their navy by Venice, but avenged themselves and crushed the Venetian navy.

Ottoman decline only began around 1700 when European trade began going by sea, rather than overland where the Ottomans taxed it it for the bulk of their income.

The Ottomans failed to make economic reformt o deal with the new situation and economic decline began. And as in many Muslim societies today, economic decline led to corruption, which led to inefficiency, which led to further economic decline, which led to loss of military might and the ruin of nations.

Armughal, the Ottoman Empire survived until the 20th century based on massive Western European support designed to prevent Western Europe's rival, Russia, from seizing Turkey. Western European nations gave such enormous volumes of interest-bearing loans that the Ottoman Empire was hugely saddled by debt; in many cases, such as the Crimean War, the Ottoman Empire had to rely on European powers to provide troops and ships to fight for it.

A slow recovery was underway in the early 1900s when the Ottomans requested German help to modernise their country, but that ended with the defeat in World War 1.

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Re: MAToos: in 1500 AD

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
By 1500,

250 years had already passed since the Mongol destruction of Abbasi's Baghdad
200 years had gone by since the utter defeat of Muslims in Spain
[/QUOTE]

Actually, you overlooked 2 other relates timeframes.

200 years had passed since the Mongols accepted Islam in all the Muslim lands where they were present.

50 years since the complete annihilation of the Byzantine empire by the Muslims.

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I doubt this thread was started to give us a proper appreciation of history, but it has turned into one heck of a fine informative thread. Thanks m_S :k:

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is he related to one of the other posters who said that the soviet union was destroyed due to lack of navy? haha...man these M Ms (mod. muslims) sure seem to be enjoying the liberal hobby of marijuana.

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He is the very same guy who claims that Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union fell due to a lack of naval power :hehe:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Actually, Ottoman power was still awe-inspiring by 1500. .....
[/QUOTE]

Awe-inspiring in 1500 and awfully inspiring by 1550.

Being Mad will surely deprive someone the faculties needed for a scientific analysis of history.

Here is a quick summary for those who truly want to learn:

1538 Battle of Preveza was the last biggy won by Ottomans under the command of Khairuddin.

Naval techniques, the steel industry, mathematics and other scientific knowledge quickly went far beyond Ottomon's MAToos.

Backwardness of Ottomans resulted in their defeat during the battle of Lepanto (1571). From then on, Europe did the leap frog thingy and Ottomans were treated as "Sick man of Europe" according the words of the then Russian diplomat.

MAToo Munkees on this board want to live in a make belief history. That is fine with me. The result however will be devastating for the followers of such MAToos and the Mullah Moe.

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ok i think its about time someone told me what MAToo actually means…

i tried to figure it out on my own but to no avail… :konfused:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Backwardness of Ottomans resulted in their defeat during the battle of Lepanto (1571). From then on, Europe did the leap frog thingy and Ottomans were treated as "Sick man of Europe" according the words of the then Russian diplomat.
[/QUOTE]

The Ottoman navy was rebuilt to full strength within 6 months of the Battle of Lepanto, thereby limiting the strategic gain of the Holy League.
Indeed, the defeat at Lepanto completely failed to prevent the Ottomans from crushing the last vestiges of resistance on Cyprus later that year and consolidating their hold on it.

And the "sick man of Europe" name tag only became applied to the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s, due to the economic decline of the 1700s and its consequences.

The battle of Lepanto had nothing to do with it. In the fate of the Ottoman Empire, it was just one blip which was overcome within 6 months with the recontruction of the fleet.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

The Ottoman navy was rebuilt to full strength within 6 months of the Battle of Lepanto, thereby limiting the strategic gain of the Holy League.
Indeed, the defeat at Lepanto completely failed to prevent the Ottomans from crushing the last vestiges of resistance on Cyprus later that year and consolidating their hold on it.

And the "sick man of Europe" name tag only became applied to the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s, due to the economic decline of the 1700s and its consequences.

The battle of Lepanto had nothing to do with it. In the fate of the Ottoman Empire, it was just one blip which was overcome within 6 months with the recontruction of the fleet.
[/QUOTE]

how you compare southasia now and during mughal period?
binqasim easily defeated pakistan then now pakistan has more technology than other muslim countries.

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Jab apko pata challaye tou mujhaye bhi bata dijeye ga… please… :frowning:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

how you compare southasia now and during mughal period?
binqasim easily defeated pakistan then now pakistan has more technology than other muslim countries.
[/QUOTE]

in case u did not notice, the period under discussion is 1500 AD....

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

The Ottoman navy was rebuilt to full strength within 6 months of the Battle of Lepanto, ....[then] Ottomans [curshed] the last vestiges of resistance on Cyprus later that year ......
.......
[/QUOTE]

Full strength navy couldn't go back to the western Mediterranean.

Munkees may want to downplay the Battle of Lepanto. Unfortunately Ottoman offensive power and their commander Ali Pasha's head were on European lances. There wasn’t going to be another Khairuddin Barbarosa anymore. End! Finish!

After losing 30,000 sailors, and their commander, Ottomans never dared to attack Mediterranean ports of Europe.

p.s. Capturing Cyprus was nothing much. This is like Bharat claiming to be super power after capturing north Sri Lanka (just an example folks).

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Capturing Cyprus was nothing much??? Comparable to India boasting of taking Sri Lanka?

My young boy, you do exaggerate too much. Cyprus was part of the national territory of Venice, one of the nations that took part on the winning side at Lepanto, and that naval victory was unable to save this part of Venice from being annexed to the Ottomans.

And whilst Ottoman raiding may have diminished in the aftermatch of Lepanto, the Ottoman vassals along the Barbary coast and Al Jazeer certainly took up that flag with relish and preyed effectively on European shipping throughout the Mediterranean and North Atlantic for another 200 years thereafter.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
....[Ottomons] preyed [looted] effectively on European shipping .....
[/QUOTE]

Terrorist Munkees are always proud of looting, plundering, and terrorising.

But they do find it mighty difficult to excel in Maths, and sciences.

Down with the terrorist Munkees!

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Looted? :hehe:

My dear boy, the Barbary and Al-Jazeer sultans were predominantly in a state of war with the European powers. They weren’t looting shipping, they were merely interdicting enemy trade, just as the British navy interdicted US shipping in the early 1800s seizing cargo and crew.

But what else can be expected from the guy who thinks that the Soviet Union collapsed because its navy (which had the firepower to turn the continental United States into smoking glassland) was not strong enough :rotfl:

Word of advice for you. Finish your education and then start posting on political forums, because you’re just making a idiot out of yourself :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
..... **Barbary and Al-Jazeer sultans **were predominantly in a state of war with the European powers. .....
[/QUOTE]

And I thought we were talking about Ottomons.
These barbar Sultaans were the super power then? in what, cutting hair or cleaning armpits?

Name one major battle in the Western Mediterranean or North Atlantic where Ottomans could win like Kharuddin of 1538. Just one!

ARMughal watch out a separate thread on MAToo Math.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *

And I thought we were talking about Ottomons.
These barbar Sultaans were the super power then? in what, cutting hair or cleaning armpits?

Name one major battle in the Western Mediterranean or North Atlantic where Ottomans could win like Kharuddin of 1538. Just one!
[/QUOTE]

You should read why I typed before you replied

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: * the Ottoman **vassals* along the Barbary coast and Al Jazeer certainly took up that flag with relish and preyed effectively on European shipping throughout the Mediterranean and North Atlantic
[/QUOTE]

I referred to the Ottoman vassals, not vessels. The Barbary Coast and Al-Jazeer sultans were vassals of the Ottoman Empire, because they acknowledged the Sultan in Istanbul as their Khalif.

The sultans may not have been superpowers, but they were powerful enough for kings of Britain and France and Spain to send emissaries pleading for peace. The fact that the Ottomans did not seek to expand their influence in the Mediterranean after Lepanzo and instead use their fleet for defence led to their vassals along North Africa building up large fleets instead.

Lastly, the reason why the Ottomans could not win major battles in the Western Mediterranean or Northern Atlantic is .......

......

...... wait for it

............

THEY WERE AN EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN NATION!!!!!

They Ottoman empire had no interests to fight over in the Western Mediterranean or Northern Atlantic. Their primary enemies (the italian states and the Hapsburgs) all had their navies in the eastern mediterranean and that is where the Ottoman battle fleet was need.

Can you tell me when your next birthday is? I have a strong urge to buy you a globe and a geography textbook :)

In the century that followed Lepanto, the Ottomans' strategic objectives, retaining the Balkans and dealing with the threat of Persia, were areas that could be dealt with without needing naval might and so their fleet was used to merely ward of Venetian efforts to land on Ottoman territory. Hence there were no further major engagements.