" original sin is to LIMIT the God…DONT"
Any idea what this might mean folks…
Any thoughts if each of us is guilty of that…
I ma not sure, but its meaning could be in the word .. LIMIT ..
'cos God has no limits, and no limitiations...
Gizzy
You are asking answer for the fact that there is no answer. Creation of all these religions is due to this fact. Smart and cunning people at that time created these faith and asked stupid followers to follow it. Islam is a good example of this fact
When I mentioned this you will see how many blind followers try to eat me live.
realpaki,
The majority of members here are not so foolish as to spend any more time trying to convince you of anything.
Frankly, I think they've bored of you already, so don't expect a battle royale.
My understanding of original sin was that it is a christian belief...and that Jesus died for our sins...
I thought that the original sin was one..eve tempted adam with the apple..and adam and she both sinned by eating the apple..and were removed from paradise.
Therefore, all humans are born on Earth because of the original sin.
I think the concept is inappropriate and wrong...why would god punish people for acts that someone else did?
So perhaps that is the limit..
Kashmirigirl,
I suggest you should do a little research, into the judio-christian books, before you jump to conclusions about what is appropriate and what is not. Here is something to enlighten your mind ("The way to the truth is always to keep an open mind...." by me.)
Please read the posting What would Jesus do, verses what......, particurlarly the section on Slavery, where Mohammed(pbuh) allows Aisha's slave to be beaten, in place of Aisha. "why punish one for the sins of another ???"
No offence just an observation
SLAVERY
Muhammad allowed slaves to be beaten. When his wife was being examined as to whether or not she committed adultery, Muhammad's son in law, Ali, brutally beat Aisha's slave in front of Muhammad, in order to insure that she tell the truth about Aisha. Here is the quote from Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", translated as "The Life of Muhammad", by A. Guillaume, (page 496):
"So the apostle called Burayra (Aisha's slave) to ask her, and Ali got up and gave her a violent beating saying, "Tell the apostle the truth,"....
Muhammad did not stop Ali from beating the slave.
Excuse me but this IS the LIMIT
"dont pin it on me"
[This message has been edited by particleboard (edited January 31, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by particleboard (edited January 31, 2000).]
Kamshmirigirl:
You are right, also there is no concept of original sin in Islaam. The person who attacked you on your view is just a bigot and lying. I would love to see that he/she debates with me.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
[quote]
Originally posted by particleboard:
**Kashmirigirl,
I suggest you should do a little research, into the judio-christian books, before you jump to conclusions about what is appropriate and what is not. Here is something to enlighten your mind ("The way to the truth is always to keep an open mind...." by me.)
Please read the posting What would Jesus do, verses what......, particurlarly the section on Slavery, where Mohammed(pbuh) allows Aisha's slave to be beaten, in place of Aisha. "why punish one for the sins of another ???"
No offence just an observation
SLAVERY
Muhammad allowed slaves to be beaten. When his wife was being examined as to whether or not she committed adultery, Muhammad's son in law, Ali, brutally beat Aisha's slave in front of Muhammad, in order to insure that she tell the truth about Aisha. Here is the quote from Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", translated as "The Life of Muhammad", by A. Guillaume, (page 496):
"So the apostle called Burayra (Aisha's slave) to ask her, and Ali got up and gave her a violent beating saying, "Tell the apostle the truth,"....
Muhammad did not stop Ali from beating the slave.
Excuse me but this IS the LIMIT**
[/quote]
Can you please give me the complete name of the author. Name and ISBN number of the book you have qouted? Name of the Publisher etc.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
Is there a original sin ?
The key to Christian and especially Missionary Christian doctrine is the concept of Original Sin, namely that all mankind is condemned to death and eternal torture in Hell because of the sin of the original two people who disobeyed God and ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
The teaching goes that God cursed them and all future generations and their act introduced death into the world.
And there is nothing we can do about this inherited curse of our own accord. We are condemned from the moment of our birth and need a savior to rescue us. Left to our own devices we are literally, "Damned if we do and damned if we don't."
Okay, let's follow the golden rule of Torah study:
don't quote a single sentence "proof text", read the whole section. What really happened here? (Please read Genesis Chapters 2 and 3. Come on, it just takes a few minutes.)
Now off to the first curse, the snake. Notice verse 15, Chapter 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers...." [1]
Clearly the curse directed at the snake is eternal, given this reference to future generations. And it is a curse as verse 14 says,
"Because you did this, more cursed shall you be..."
Now look at the sixteenth verse, the alleged "curse" of the woman. Do you see the word "curse" there anywhere? No, because it is not there. The woman was punished for her acts but not cursed.
On to Adam (Chapter 3, verses 17 -20). The word "cursed" appears in this section, right? Yes, but look at verse 17, "Cursed be the ground because of you." Not "Cursed be you." [italics mine] Big difference.
Adam was going to have to farm (work hard) for a living but absolutely no curse was applied to him directly. It didn't happen. Period.
So we don't have a curse? Wasn't the punishment eternal?
Check again. I've pointed out the reference to future generations in the curse of the snake. There is absolutely no reference to future generations in the punishments of Adam and Eve.
Wasn't this somehow implied?
Well, look at some other sections. When God meant something to be eternal, He said so. Look at Chapter 17, verse 7 which gives the time span of God's covenant with Abraham, "I will maintain My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring to come, throughout the ages, to be your God to you and to your offspring to come."
So God was perfectly capable of assigning a time frame, even an eternal time frame, to His actions when He wanted to. Obviously, a Supreme Being Who made the eternal nature of His blessing through Abraham so clear would have made the eternal nature of any curse through Adam equally clear.
But can't we prove the existence of some sort of eternal curse since Adam and Eve brought death to all mankind?
Look at God's pronouncement of Adam's "death sentence" in verse 17, "For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."
So Adam and Eve were created with eternal life and then cursed with death, right? Surely their action is the reason we all must die?
Wrong . Adam and Eve were born mortal. Note verse 17 does not says "Dust you have become" it says "Dust you are."
They never had eternal life in the first place. Then check out verses 22 through 25. God says (presumably to the angels) regarding Adam, "What if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever?"
In other words there was an action which Adam had not yet performed which was required for Adam to sustain his Body and receive an eternal nature.
And what did God do after this statement? He drove Adam out of the garden and placed an angel with a flaming sword to guard the tree of life. In other words, Adam never had an immortal nature to lose. He was simply placed in a position where his mortal nature continued.
let me explain it again :
God placed an angel to guard the tree of life to prevent Adam and Eve from eating from it for the simple reason that if they had begun to eat from this tree their mortal natures would not have effected them . No Tree of Life = No immortality . We never had an immortal nature .
The bottom line is that there never was any curse of original sin. Therefore never any need for anyone to die for us to remove such a curse. We are each responsible for our own actions and our own individual relationship with God.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
particleboard:
In your post above you have not only misrepresented the truth, but also twisted it as well. Your false allegations are so inconceivable about slave and ** Mother of BELIEVERS Hazrat Aiysha Siddiqa (ra)** that if it would have been true? The very beginning of Islaam would have been it’s end? Because the very Pagan Arabs whom our Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was delivering the Final message of God and delivering the ceremonial laws and laws of life through the Final Revelation of God THE NOBLE QURAN would have used this false allegation (for which you are lying it to be true) to eradicate Islaam from face of earth. Let us not forget that Christians and Jew of that time were also hostile against our beloved Prophet and Islaam. They would have been quick to use against Islaam and our Prophet's character too. SO COMMON SENSE BEG US TO CONCLUDE THAT YOUR LIE IS A TRUE LIE AND INCONCEIVEABLE FOR THE PERSONS YOU ARE LYING AGAINST. FURTHER FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL RESULTS PROVES THE SAME
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*
[This message has been edited by Irrefragable (edited April 05, 2000).]