Re: original shia part 2
There are many hadith in Shia literature which in fact denies infallibility to their imams in the full sense of the word [infallibility].
To my above statement the following was your reaction:
Being a Shia you have taken objection to my above statement, rightly so according to your views.
As Shias do take their Imams to be infallible, do you really think that Shia sites that you frequent will dig up the hadith material from their books which states the fallibility of the Imams? Highly unlikely, it will be sacrilegious!
Just to allay your fears that I must be bluffing I shall provide you with the link to the website of the one-time Shia research Student. His name is Ahmed Al Khatib. Even though he ‘problems’ with Shiaism as far as I know he has not opted for Sunnism as yet.
This is his official website in Arabic: http://www.alkatib.co.uk/ Here he has put links to the debates he has had with his contemporaries.
Here is the link to his research in English language: http://www.alkatib.co.uk/englishbook.htm
The part you will be interested in is here: http://www.alkatib.co.uk/e7.htm Just scroll down a few paragraphs till you reach the heading: **THE POSITION OF MEMBERS OF THE PROPHET’S FAMILY (AHL AL BAYT) ON INFALLIBILITY **
Brother Zero1 Would you believe me if told you hat I do not visit the sites that you have hinted at? Trust me; there are tons of others on the Net. I try to widen my knowledge from many sources. I do pay occasional visit to Shia sites too. Frankly speaking I do feel a bit allergic to sites run by ‘Sufi-types’.
Well, everybody has their own preferences.
I have read material by Aqa Mahdi Puya (Pooya) and I find him to be an extremist just as much as the sites that you want me not to waste my time on.
One of the sites I do visit is the following: http://www.understanding-islam.com/ where a very friend of mine who is an Iranian and an ex-Shia and has been a ‘thorn’ on various debating Forums with Shias with the Nick of Student ( I am sure you must have come across him.) But on this site he goes by the name of Abdullah Rahim.
You can read his articles related to the topic on hand.
**About the Purity of Ahl’l Bayet (The Prophet’s Household) **
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=2761
**Regarding Shia Muslims ** http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=2608
**Hadith Kasa ** http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=2874
You can easily notice that he has ‘soft spot’ for Shias. If I want to know anything about Shiaism; he is the one I turn to.
Incidentally there a hadith in Sahih Muslim referring to an incident where Hz. Ali (ra) burnt people to death who had attributed divinity to him. I am sure there must be a reference to this incidence in Shia literature.
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ " Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260
**Ma Mooli **
( Two flowers for you) Yes it’s been a loooong time – but I have been on the sidelines and am still tangled in a rather ‘bruising marathon’ with a Dude from Texas.
It is true that it falls down to the choice of words selected for the translations. And personal inclinations of the translator do creep in.
I have a objection to attributing infallibility to non-prophets whoever they may be.
I have given the student’s link above.