If the state of Pakistan did not Allie itself with the United States of America this internal semi civil war would not have occurred. Not only this, if you fund my neighbor to bomb my house id probably bomb you as well. ...get my drift?
Agreed. And the US terrorists are happier than a pig in #*!# right now. Pakistan should not be fighting an American war.
Re: Operation in Waziristan
these coward women beater and abusers are running like rats from one place to another instead of putting up a fight. I think they’re under the impression that this operation is a limited scope one, like the previous operations, designed only to target an area or two, hence, their strategy to regroup in a different part to avoid the fight and once PA pulls back they can come back. These dumb ****s don’t realize that PA is coming to wipe them out once and for all.
Pakistan’s battle with Taliban militants expands north | csmonitor.com
**
Pakistan’s battle with Taliban militants expands north**
Many Pakistan Taliban fighters are fleeing an Army offensive in South Waziristan for another tribal agency, Orakzai, where troops killed 22 militants Sunday.
By Taylor Barnes
posted November 23, 2009 at 8:22 am EST
•A daily summary of global reports on security issues.
Pakistan militants are fleeing a military offensive in South Waziristan that has killed hundreds and are regrouping in another tribal agency, Orakzai. Pakistani security forces have followed, killing at least 22 Sunday in a battle in a village bordering Orakzai, which is just 10 miles south of Peshawar, the capital of the North West Frontier Province.
Pakistan’s Army says that while the South Waziristan offensive has taken out the country’s largest Taliban sanctuary, militants falling back into Orakzai could become the military’s next focus (read part B below), Bloomberg reports.
Map of Pakistan that includes Orakzai, Peshawar, and South Waziristan
http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/pakistan.gif
Some escaped militants will abandon the Taliban movement and others will continue, making Orakzai the army’s possible next target, [Military Spokesman Major General Athar] Abbas said. Pakistani paramilitary troops fought Taliban in Orakzai yesterday, destroying an FM radio station used by the guerrillas, Akhlaq Khan, a spokesman for Orakzai’s political agent, said by telephone.
Yesterday’s clash continued an escalation of violence in Orakzai, where air force jets have bombed suspected Taliban strongholds this month, killing scores of people, Pakistani news media have reported.
In the village Shahukhel, troops in Sunday’s offensive also took out a communications tower and a training camp, according to the Pakistani daily Dawn.
Troops, the sources said, were now targeting militants’ hideouts in other part of [Shahukhel] situated in Upper Orakzai from the [Shahukhel] area in Hangu.
Pakistan has waged an offensive against militants in South Waziristan since Oct. 17. The military says more than 500 Taliban and 70 soldiers have been killed in the Waziristan assault, according to Reuters. While the US has welcomed the Waziristan offensive, it is looking for more action as it scouts for ways to disrupt Afghan Taliban factions in the lawless tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, Reuters adds.
Washington is keen to see Pakistan also tackle Afghan Taliban factions based in lawless enclaves along the border.
[Local police official Fareed] Khattak said forces had entered the lawless Orakzai region where many Taliban insurgents had fled. “Now helicopter gunships are striking Taliban hideouts in the agency,” he said.
The Pakistani Army says it killed nearly 40 militants Sunday in several operations in the tribal areas, according to the Associated Press. But the AP adds that reporters have little access to this turbulent region, making it difficult to confirm casualty numbers.
Violence resulting from the Pakistani military’s offensive in South Waziristan has spilled into nearby cities and towns, especially Peshawar. A suicide bombing near a bustling courthouse Nov. 19 killed at least 19 people, though more could have died had security forces not caught the assailant before he entered the courthouse. The Christian Science Monitor reported that the near-daily attacks on Peshawar in mid-November may indicate that the frontline in the battle against the Taliban is inching closer to the center of the country.
What’s not clear is whether such bombings are the last gasp of weakening Taliban fighters – in response to the Pakistani Army offensive in neighboring Waziristan – or a continuing trend.
](Pakistan's battle with Taliban militants expands north - CSMonitor.com)
If the state of Pakistan did not Allie itself with the United States of America this internal semi civil war would not have occurred. Not only this, if you fund my neighbor to bomb my house id probably bomb you as well. ...get my drift?
And Pakistan would have been declared a terrorist state by the world community which would have led to a total collapse of Pakistan with trade and economic sanctions imposed on Pakistan
Pakistan would resemble Somalia today.
Pakistan does not have Oil like Iran to survive being labeled a terrorist state.
Re: Operation in Waziristan
Excellent analysis - also confirms the long-held view that AQ and its affiliated network is calling the shots in the region - so much for India/Israel conspiracies!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - AQ and the Arab-led Salafi Jihad Network is the PRIMARY sponsor of the TTP thugs.
**
Al Qaeda hierarchy in a pocket?**
Thursday, November 26, 2009
Ikram Sehgal
In six weeks of intense fighting the Pakistani Army has killed 600-700 militants while capturing an undisclosed number, probably disrupting the Al Qaeda worldwide network, if not damaging it substantially. Guerrillas are not supposed to stand and fight unless they have substantial reason to do so. In many of the locations in South Waziristan they did just that. One may well ask why they were they fighting so hard?
Athar Abbas maintains that many melted into the countryside and into North Waziristan. This rather contradictory ambiguity tends to muddy some unpalatable truths, that the foreigners have nowhere to go while their paid Mehsud “army” will take their chances as “guests” of their Waziri cousins. Since the impending operations in South Waziristan was public property for months, interdicting their routes and possible havens should have been catered for.
As winter sets in and the army restricts itself to the localities, a classic guerrilla campaign may be in the offing against the tough militants in the area. One can only pray for the forces presently engaged in operations in South Waziristan. Those include my unit of which a mechanised infantry company carries my name, bestowed on it during the 1971 War in the Thar Desert on Sanohi Ridge overlooking Chhor on Dec 13, 1971, by the-then commanding officer, Lt Col (later Brig) Muhammad Taj (SJ & Bar). Luckily, from the major general to the common soldier, this army has come a long way because of their “acid test” in Swat.
Too much detail is being given about the counter-insurgency operations when bland statements could suffice. We are not the US and South Waziristan is not Vietnam, we have to keep a lid on things rather than look good and grandstand in the media while others are doing the actual fighting.
On Oct 23, 2004, I had written, “One should certainly ‘embed’ journalists with units in peacetime and (maybe) during conventional war, to allow the media access to the area of operations during a counter-guerrilla warfare campaign is nothing less than madness, if not outright propaganda ‘hara-kiri’! the Pakistani Army is engaged in a bloody cross between classic guerrilla warfare and pure terrorism, excesses can be complicated by misreporting, the political and geopolitical merits and demerits (and sensitivities) of indulging in counter-guerrilla operations notwithstanding.” Nobody listened to me then, no one is likely to listen to me now either.
After the Afghan War was over by the late 1980s, a substantial number of foreign volunteers had nowhere to go. Five years ago, on Jan 27, 2005, I wrote, “To go back to their own countries would have meant instant incarceration, and maybe even instant death. In the 90s decade the foreign militants in South Waziristan lived in relative peace. This changed after the army entered South Waziristan in 2004.”
To quote my article of Oct 23, 2004, "A largely rocky and barren country with walled tribal villages, each with one or more watchtowers, South Waziristan has poor soil, with only small patches of cultivation around the villages. The main source of survival for the locals has been banditry and smuggling–i.e., till the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979. Both North and South Waziristan thereafter became staging areas for the Afghan Mujahideen, this spurred some economic activity, and even sparse affluence. With the advent of US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan and the rout of their Taliban mentors, there was an fresh influx of foreign fighters as elements of Al Qaeda found a safe haven in this no-go (self-imposed by the government) territory, operating at will on both sides of the Durand Line.
“With plenty of cash from the foreigners, with religious sentiments decrying the occupation of Afghanistan by western powers and with a heritage of spurning laws that are not essentially tribal in nature, besides being a safe haven this became an ideal recruiting ground from among the youth of the area. Before the Afghan War reliance was on generally obsolete weapons. Their weapons and equipment are now at par with the modern armed forces, on-the-job ‘training’ has made them sometimes even tougher. While modern communications and intelligent exploitation of the media are major force-multipliers to their potency, the use of IEDs as a terror weapon adds a new dimension.” Common knowledge since 2004, it is appalling that our own intelligence agencies (and others with far more sophistication) could not capitalise on telltale signs about the “safe haven” for the Al Qaeda hierarchy.
Going into South Waziristan in 2004 without adequate manpower or firepower, and given the stakes for Al Qaeda, the Pakistani Army had to get a bloody nose. To quote my article of Oct 23, 2004, “According to Comd 11 Corps, Lt Gen Safdar Hussain, 246 militants have been killed during the course of military operations in the last few months in South Waziristan, at least 100 foreigners (Uzbeks and Chechens among them). He claimed that 579 militants have been arrested. And then came the shocker, 171 of our Pakistani soldiers (regular and paramilitary) have also died during the operations, 21 because of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). As a company commander of an infantry battalion (44 Punjab now 4 Sindh) which suffered (and inflicted) the maximum casualties (some of it in hand-to-hand fighting) during counter-guerrilla operations in Balochistan in 1973, even for me the high casualty rate is alarming. Ruling out the presence of Osama Bin Laden in the area, he confirmed indications that Tahir Yuldash, a leader of the Independent Uzbekistan Movement (IUM), could be operating with the hostiles. What this successor of renowned Uzbek Mujahideen leader Juma Namangani (killed fighting with the Taliban in Konduz in Oct/Nov 2001) is doing in Pakistan is anyone’s guess!”
Why not bring to book those that sent the army into Kargil (1999) and FATA (2004) without proper planning or logistics? Don’t the Shaheeds have a right to hold accountable those who sent them to their deaths without reason and/or adequate support?
The militant ORBAT (order of battle) in South Waziristan had an inner circle of Uzbeks, Chechens, Arabs, etc., guarding the core comprising the Al Qaeda hierarchy, with an outer mercenary circle of Mehsud tribals, short on ideology but long on rhetoric about it. The inner core almost never comes into view, beefing up the various sub-units of the outer circle during actual fighting whenever required. This was a perfect arrangement. For the benefit of the outside world, while Al Qaeda remained incognito, the Mehsuds naively revelled in the publicity and got duly knocked over from time to time, one Mehsud cousin happily taking over from the other.
The momentum of the present operations must be continued and the remaining militants captured or killed. The next two weeks before the first flurries of snow are crucial. The army most scour the countryside to locate and deny hideouts for the militants. The Al Qaeda hierarchy is definitely in a pocket in South Waziristan. Now is the opportunity and the time to take them out!
The writer is a defence and political analyst. Email: [EMAIL=“[email protected]”][email protected]
Re: Operation in Waziristan
Inshallah Everything will be in-Control soon. Allah help us
Inshallah Everything will be in-Control soon. Allah help us
Does Allah really help Muslims killing Muslims? This only helps the real threat in the region, the US terrorists.
Excellent analysis - also confirms the long-held view that AQ and its affiliated network is calling the shots in the region - so much for India/Israel conspiracies!
I've said it before and I'll say it again - AQ and the Arab-led Salafi Jihad Network is the PRIMARY sponsor of the TTP thugs. ** Al Qaeda hierarchy in a pocket?** ....
Perhaps this article should have been written in two parts.
We can blame Mehsuds for their primitive tribalistic naiveté. However the Acquired Islamists self-Destructive Syndrome (Islamists' version of AIDS disease) has really infected large portions of urban Pakistanis too.
Once the Islamists's AIDS virus infects an individual's brain, he/she tends to become even more religious and thus open to the exploitation by the conspiracy theorists. This forum is clearly a place to find out who has been infected already.
This is the same as the South African top politician who insisted on sex with virgins in order to CURE the OTHeR AIDS.
The second point "Utter lack of civilian brains...." is even more important for the long term survival of Pak army and by extension Pakistan itself.
If you go back and study the great generals and conquerers, you will find one important thing in their arsenal. No that "thing" wasn't the latest bomb, or gun, or airplane, not at all.
The most important thing in the arsenal of any WORLD class general (and army) are the honest to goodness "military historians".
Military historians are civilians who love the military science, and the art of war. They don't care about religiosity, or nationalistic fervor. These are cool minded ANALYST who may never have picked up the gun, but they have studied the past wars, and the past follies of the generals and their armies.
In modern terms, these civilians could be college professors, or pro-military think tank researchers.
Unfortunately, in Pakistan we have very few pro-military civilian intellectuals. No need to blame army for the dearth of these intellectuals. Because generals do not produce civilian intellectuals, rather CIVILIANS produce these professors and researchers.
Have we had these pro-military historians and researchers operating in the upper echelons of policy matters, we would have avoided the debacles of Kashmir, or the follies of E. Bengal, or the stupidities of Tribal area/ Awghanistan.
It is time that Pakistani civilians take charge by working WITH the army (instead of criticizing them) to avoid the next folly, and minimize the affects of the current trials and tribulations.
The civilians thinkers with ZERO motivation from religion, and only purpose for saving our beautiful country.
Does Allah really help Muslims killing Muslims? This only helps the real threat in the region, the US terrorists.
Yes Allah really does 'help' Muslims killing Muslims, if only to the extent of sanctioning and encouraging certain killing. The killing of murderers by the state is completely mandated and encouraged. May Allah help us put an end to the murderous animals that is the TTP.
Re: Operation in Waziristan
Be vey very careful when you talk about this WAR do not ever ever again compare it with muslim-killing-muslim affair.
First you distinguish between the “enemy of state” upon which ALL other matters are deemed irrelevant and not discussion worthy.
“Such Muslims” should rightly be considered as the ENEMY no.1 of Islam and should be hanged at the 1st oppourtunity no mercy and no sympathy.
Pakistan Army is fighting a war not for the faint hearts. PERIOD
Inshallah....we must take inspiration from Sri Lanka in defeating the LTTE terrorists, Turkey in taking out the PKK, and Colombia defeating the FARC terrorists.
God bless the Pakistani Army....lets do this and send these Taliban scum to hell
Ameen to that afterall that is the first thing i liked of you against those fake talibans in pakistan supported by foreign agenciz
Ameen to that afterall that is the first thing i liked of you against those fake talibans in pakistan supported by foreign agenciz
i dont mean this with any undue disrespect but you are so stupid. before you win this war with the 'fake' talibobs your countries andrah (intestines) will be splattered all over.
your willingness to 'ameen' a do more command from a known pakistan hater, well lets not even comment on this
you will not and can not win this war
support a peaceful solution now
hahahahahahaha!!!! they don't circumcise! that must make them worthy of being killed!
[quote="Raindance, post:39, topic:212250"]
...
"Such Muslims" should rightly be considered as the ENEMY no.1 of Islam and should be hanged at the 1st oppourtunity no mercy and no sympathy.
....
why is anybody an enemy of islam...? they are the enemy of the state? why do all muslims consider any kind of an attack as an attack on their faith? the terrorists want to dismantle the operation of the govt, so they can assume control. wat has that got do with islam?
Agreed. And the US terrorists are happier than a pig in #*!# right now. Pakistan should not be fighting an American war.
u see, pakistan would not be fighting this war, simply because its none of its business, only if it were not blinded by the continuous bribe it receives from america in the form of 'funding'.
the people of pakistan my or may not support the war, but the fact that they are a part of it shows how weakly willed and inconsiderate their govt has become. you are fighting a war, losing soldiers, resources, and respect with your neighbors, and yet you cannot abandon the american cause because of the money your ur leaders get... corruption...
i dont mean this with any undue disrespect but you are so stupid. before you win this war with the 'fake' talibobs your countries andrah (intestines) will be splattered all over.
your willingness to 'ameen' a do more command from a known pakistan hater, well lets not even comment on this
you will not and can not win this war
support a peaceful solution now
Peaceful solution?
What kinda a peaceful solution is possible with people who are killing innocent people day in and day out.
We must condemn and should not support these innocent killings on what-so-ever basis...
What kind of peaceful solution can we have with people who are killing our totally innocent children who have nothing to do with any global situation or politics?
Re: Operation in Waziristan
war on terror is a devil worshipping rich mans sport, pakistan has no place in it.
take your losses now, and swallow your pride, admit the states wrong policies -even if only to describe their net result, although the moral aspect is a greater concern
people who want to use the yester deaths of innocent people as justification for the endless suffering of tommorrows victims need their head examining. they seem to have run away in dizzy state of WOT aligned euphoria where they are willing to put forward endless amounts of cannon fodder. this stinks of racism, but racism, to me. ends at minor discrimination
first you said WOT was in our interests (not that you BELIEVED init) and thats why you were supporting it, now its clear that its not in our interests and you are still supporting it.
this is so stupid im not surprised PAKISTAN FACES ABSOLUTE DEFEAT.
talibobs have very little to do with it, this amount of dis-array in any stack will bring it down
Peaceful solution?
What kinda a peaceful solution is possible with people who are killing innocent people day in and day out.
with hindsight surely you can see that there were and are deaths in one certain part of pakistan which are not always noted and never have they been mourned
from full independence of the federally administered area to a round table agreed ceasefire possibilities for peace are there
if your looking for an even cheaper deal then am afraid youve failed to comprehend developments
Re: Operation in Waziristan
**Taliban threaten to target big cities in retaliation: Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
**
LAHORE: Hakimullah Mehsud, a spokesman for Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan chief Baitullah Mehsud, claiming responsibility for Wednesday’s deadly bomb-and-gun attack in Lahore that killed 27 people and injured another 326, warned of more violence in response to the military operation in Swat and surrounding areas. Speaking to media from an undisclosed location, the Taliban commander said “I appeal to [people] of Lahore, Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Multan to vacate their cities as there will be more such massive attacks, more dangerous than this and we will target government buildings and places”. Referring to the blast site, he added, “We [have been] looking for this target for a long time”. reuters
with hindsight surely you can see that there were and are deaths in one certain part of pakistan which are not always noted and never have they been mourned
from full independence of the federally administered area to a round table agreed ceasefire possibilities for peace are there
if your looking for an even cheaper deal then am afraid youve failed to comprehend developments
Okay lets consider what you are suggesting.
Gov brings Taliban to negotiating table, they ask for teh army to pull out of FATA, as a condition for peace which teh government does. Army comes back, FATA is under Taliban, who regroup, Al-Qaeda groups hiding in Afghanistan, come back into FATA.
*Government looses control of the Pak-Afghan border.
*Resolution is presented in UN by India and US, that Pakistan is unable to clear its territory of terrorist hideouts and ask for trade embargo. Resolution is backed by all countries including the brotherly Islamic nation of Iran&Iraq, Indonesia, MAlaysia, Turkey. 5-10 arab nations refrain from voting. Exports drop by 50%, inflation rises by 100%.
*India, backed by its Afghan allies starts a terror campaign in Pakistan, like the eighties.
*Drome attacks increase on FATA, in retaliation, Taliban target western companies, counselets in Pakistan. Pressure from international community mounts.
*Baloch separatists are supported by Indians, increase their activities and gain a voice in international forums. Get a resolution in UN for right of self determination.
*Political climate deteriorates, army takes over. Qazi tells you to be strong likee Cuba, and Pakistan becomes another Cuba, where a college professor cannot buy one shoe with his salary.
*Drugs increase, unemployment , infant mortality rises.
Is that what you want for your country?