Musharraf probably is the worst army chief ever in history of Pakistan. This guy had his much uttered “unity of command” for nearly a decade and yet during his tenure nearly a thousand Pakistani soldiers were killed and yet the Taliban went on from strength to strength. Villagae after village came under TTP control during his regime and despite getting nearly a thousand soldiers killed at hands of Taliban. Compare it with present operation by Kiyani where each day forces are pushing Taliban back.
Re: Operation By Musharraf Vs OPeration by Kiyani
And if Musharraf had launched a Swat style operation against the taliban in Waziristan when majority of pakistani public was still under the spell of jihadi mantra of Zia-ul-Haq era, what do you think the outcome would have been?
Who would have been screaming bloody murder if not for right wing PML-N, JI, JUI etc? All of would ave accused Musharraf of killing innocent tribals for $s. They still do that, but it would have been worse. Pakistani people will have to see the real face of taliban before they would publicly support an operation against them. Even know you have malcontents debating whether taliban are good or bad.
It is not correct. He bulldozed Lal mosque by killing number of people including women trapped in side the mosque. He should have started this mission soon after U-turn after 911 incident. But he was coward and power hungry.
Mush was the person who created MMA (Mullah Military Itehad) to give underground strength to Taliban and jehadis so that $s of uncle sam keep coming in. He was the worst military dictator after so called Amir-ul-Mominin.
And if Musharraf had launched a Swat style operation against the taliban in Waziristan when majority of pakistani public was still under the spell of jihadi mantra of Zia-ul-Haq era, what do you think the outcome would have been?
Who would have been screaming bloody murder if not for right wing PML-N, JI, JUI etc? All of would ave accused Musharraf of killing innocent tribals for $s. They still do that, but it would have been worse. Pakistani people will have to see the real face of taliban before they would publicly support an operation against them. Even know you have malcontents debating whether taliban are good or bad.
fact is musharraf allowed them to grow then hit them but not hard then again allowed them to be alive then hit them but making sure not to kill them because they were the reason he was needed by US.
and reason people were confused was also because of him :) .
now they want to kill them and they would show them how an army fights.
It is not correct. He bulldozed Lal mosque by killing number of people including women trapped in side the mosque. He should have started this mission soon after U-turn after 911 incident. But he was coward and power hungry.
Mush was the person who created MMA (Mullah Military Itehad) to give underground strength to Taliban and jehadis so that $s of uncle sam keep coming in. He was the worst military dictator after so called Amir-ul-Mominin.
What is not correct? Are you disputing the well known fact that much of pakistani public was pro-taliban until barely a few weeks ago? Do you also know the typical jamati and nawaz league response to lal masjid operation?
Musharraf survived many assassination attempts from suiciders. He knew exactly the level of support the taliban enjoyed within and outside the army. There are many stories from previous operations where officers refused to fight the taliban because they were our "muslim brothers". After the army's incursions were beaten back in Waziristan with heavy losses, the corp commanders and other officers refused to fight in Waziristan anymore and pushed for peace deals. After all, today, isn't it the same right wing of the country who also want peace deal with killer muslim khan and radio mullah?
fact is musharraf allowed them to grow then hit them but not hard then again allowed them to be alive then hit them but making sure not to kill them because they were the reason he was needed by US. and reason people were confused was also because of him :) . now they want to kill them and they would show them how an army fights.
Tell me how you're going to hit and kill Mehsud's with limited operations? You can't. You have to go all in and displace million people and bomb entire villages. Was the pakistani public willing to accept million+ refugees in 2001 or 2002?
Again wrong. Pakistani public was never pro taliban. Historically it has always been secular and supporting secular parties when ever fair elections were held. You might be comprehending few supporters on this forum as majority of taliban supporters. After killing BB and thousands of their own people, only insane Paki would support these barbarians.
...He bulldozed Lal mosque
......by killing number of people including women trapped in side the mosque.
..
Niden Yara.
Kiya jazbati statements maartay ho?
Lal masjid was never "buldozed" it is still standing.
Secondly.
**
There was NO woman killed. Unless you have a name or names of women. Then you post them here.
**
Thirdly
No one was TRAPPED in the mosque. They REFUSED to come out. And in fact these Jihadis shot and killed so many law enforcement agents.
Mullah Aziz burqaposh should have been hanged for his crimes aka inciting a rebellion against the state.
**
Why do you all love to post lies and untruths. This really boggles ones mind.
**
Re: Operation By Musharraf Vs OPeration by Kiyani
though i wasnt in favor of this current operation either. i can appreciate the difference between two. musharraf was a staged fiasco to stress on his regime's worth, besides he was as much responsible for festering the situation since his own minister was involved with the two brothers. kiyani was never in power so he isnt answerable for the reasons or causes behind the problem. would be disingenious to compare two since they occupy different political power perches.
Re: Operation By Musharraf Vs OPeration by Kiyani
Who cares? Musharraf fought some one elses war, kyani is doing the same. Musharraf had all the power when he created all this mess, now this has been split between Zardari and Kyani to make it more efficient resulting in hell of a mess. Sighs
Who cares? Musharraf fought some one elses war, kyani is doing the same. Musharraf had all the power when he created all this mess, now this has been split between Zardari and Kyani to make it more efficient resulting in hell of a mess. Sighs
Yes, of course, it's someone else's war wihen bombs are going off in cities and terrorists are taking over nwfp and south punjab. In fact it is Sri Lanka's war. We should invite them to fight it in nwfp and punjab.
Good job, you're a genius.
Again wrong. Pakistani public was never pro taliban. Historically it has always been secular and supporting secular parties when ever fair elections were held. You might be comprehending few supporters on this forum as majority of taliban supporters. After killing BB and thousands of their own people, only insane Paki would support these barbarians.
Taliban was born out of pakistani madrassas and while the majority of the public voted along with their feudal parties, they always have had sympathy for the holy and pure taliban.
Pakistani public was pro taliban as long as they were killing in Afghanistan, but as now they have turned their guns against their former masters, the attitudes are changing ever so slowly.
Yes, Musharraf was a powerless leader who could not stop militants coming and settling in Quetta and Peshawar. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/world/asia/19legacy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
He was so terrified of criticism from the right wing that he wouldn’t do anything with the billions he’d get from US but can send right-wing leaders on exile or ignite violence when another one tries to threaten security in the largest city in Pakistan. He also needed ‘support’ from Islamic parties to keep himself in power and so could not do anything to anger them. (remember 17th amendment?)
He was so peace-loving that he wouldn’t do anything about the militants even when they would take Pakistan military-men (not students of cadet college) hostage and negotiate with them. Musharraf Frees Taliban Militants | Newsweek International | Newsweek.com
Pakistan was facing a bigger threat from judges, lawyers and human rights activists than militancy and therefore they were the main target after imposing emergency here. Taliban the big winners - Telegraph
Thus the emergency’s first target is not the extremists terrorising northern Pakistan, but the democratic, secular elite. Dozens of judges, lawyers and human rights workers have been arrested while more have gone underground to avoid arrest. Journalists and the media are being targeted and harassed in an unprecedented manner… But Gen Musharraf’s first concern is his own survival rather than combating the extremists, while the army is deeply demoralised and unwilling to fight a never-ending war against its countrymen.
Our dear president thought that the Pakistan military officers are so versatile that they can hold public offices as well as secure Pakistan borders at the same time.
The bottom line is, you need a democratic government, however bad, to legitimize (globally and locally) any action like a peace deal or military action. Otherwise, they would always be unpopular. You need to threat, blackmail and appease people to keep yourself in power.
Re: Operation By Musharraf Vs OPeration by Kiyani
^Looks like you know absolutely nothing about how the army works and the pro-taliban sentiments that were heavily present at that time in the military and are there even today. How do you think Musharraf's security was breached so many times by suicide bombers nearly killing him? Who do you think killed Maj Gen (retd) Faisal Alavi? Why do you think 300 soldiers surrendered without a fight in Waziristan?
Even today the Haqqani network remains active in Pakistan and Mullah Omer is a guest in Quetta courtesy of the army. Will you blame Musharraf for this too? There are institutional issues with the army, not one man, either Musharraf or Kayani can completely control. Not only the corp commanders, but both senior and mid level officers play a part in the army's actions and outlook.
Re: Operation By Musharraf Vs OPeration by Kiyani
^ So, you claim that Musharraf was totally helpless as chief of army or president? He managed to stay in power for so long while being threatened by a 'heavy taliban support' in the institution? He could do nothing but ask for prolonged support from US for staying in power threatening Taliban takeover and suppressing political activity in the country?
Your claim that Musharraf managed to rise up to the CoA position and then remain president of the Military Republic of Pakistan for 8 years without support of his subordinates is absurd to say the least.
Tell me how you're going to hit and kill Mehsud's with limited operations? You can't. You have to go all in and displace million people and bomb entire villages. Was the pakistani public willing to accept million+ refugees in 2001 or 2002?
reason people were unwilling to accept it because of him and his actions of keeping himself in power.
its all about perceptions people hated him and they perceived whatever he was doing was for himself and america.
As for lalmasji do you know he allowed to to grow to divert attention from judiciary movement, and when it became monster he hit them and hit them wrong although people supported action initially but when there was a chance to get it resolved in better way he bulldozed everything, PM went to eat kulfi and he having his wine...
he was one of the worsts...zardari can be worst as well but they can be contained but these generals when in power cant be..
Niden Yara.
Kiya jazbati statements maartay ho?
Lal masjid was never "buldozed" it is still standing.
Secondly. ** There was NO woman killed. Unless you have a name or names of women. Then you post them here. **
Thirdly
No one was TRAPPED in the mosque. They REFUSED to come out. And in fact these Jihadis shot and killed so many law enforcement agents.
Mullah Aziz burqaposh should have been hanged for his crimes aka inciting a rebellion against the state. ** Why do you all love to post lies and untruths. This really boggles ones mind.
**
I agree with you. maulana aziz aka burqa mula who tried his best to run away from the scence . They dont want girls to go to school but it was ok for mulla burqa to give bamboo sticks to his girl students and make them protest on the roads of islamabad..why to blame mushraf for everything, . these Mullahs are cowards . This has once again been proved in swat where the talibans forced people not to go to barbers but when they had to escape from the operation they got their haircuts and beards shaved.some even used burqas to run away from the army. Good example set by mullah burqa.
burqay walli khatoon, the discussion is about why Mush did not take action what persent general is doing against taliban. As usual MQM and Mush supporter using different nicks does not make you parsa and truthful. If Mush could bulldoze lal mosque and kill Bugti in the caves, help mqm 12th may carnage to stop Cj rally, he could have done the same thing against Taliban after making u-turn after 911. What is that you don't understand this simple logic?
I agree with you.
...
Thank you.
......the talibans forced people not to go to barbers but when they had to escape from the operation they got their haircuts and beards shaved.some even used burqas to run away from the army. Good example set by mullah burqa.
Mullah burqa is just a mindless robot in the hands of Saudi terrorists. It is the Saudi abuse of burqa that Pakistanis have adopted.
Haven't you seen the Saudis caught in Mehmand agency???
hhahahah.
They were all caught wearing burqas.
p.s. Still the Pakistani born robot followers of Beduins keep on lying about "lal masjid being bulldozed".
While the mosque is still there.
Lier liers' pant on fire.