Re: Open Season
There would be one God, one name for one God. Every religion defines god differently,
Just because I call it tree and you call it darakht and someone else calls it shajar does not make a tree, 3 objects. There is only one God, one creator. We may have different names and different definitions, but respect remains the same.
Re: Open Season
Thoerist...you are a helpless case.......why don't you understand??
Re: Open Season
mm if you stick within judaism, christianity and islam, yes. otherwise no. greek pantheon, egyptian pantheon, indian pantheon, norse pantheon, etc etc etc..
Re: Open Season
Your opinions are mostly a smearing campaign against Allah . If you use the right diction nobody will be offended and you can say what in your opinion is right. Your opinions consist of badmouthing the deity we believe in . Instead of emphasizing on how our beliefs are wrong and lame in your opinion , you become blasphemous and use offensive language against Allah. You are free to use offensive language for believers and their beliefs but not against the deity they believe in. No religion and no forum on earth other than forums run by atheists will allow blasphemy.
Re: Open Season
Just because I call it tree and you call it darakht and someone else calls it shajar does not make a tree, 3 objects. There is only one God, one creator. We may have different names and different definitions, but respect remains the same.
Not true. Ever looked outside of Abrahamic faith? Even christianity is not really monotheistic. It's based on holy trinity. Anyway, you evaded the question.
Did Iblis deserve what he got? Does lifetime of worship mean nothing to god? If it doesn't, why do you expect god to treat you any better? He in theory doesn't even sound all that promising.
Re: Open Season
Did Iblis deserve what he got? Does lifetime of worship mean nothing to god? If it doesn't, why do you expect god to treat you any better? He in theory doesn't even sound all that promising.
You gave away the whole definition of Islam in your question. Yes, life time of worship is nothing if it does not come with complete obedience. That is why we call ourselves Slave of Allah, cause Slave is not the best of best worshiper (Angels were there already), but he is the most obedient of all.
Re: Open Season
Your opinions are mostly a smearing campaign against Allah . If you use the right diction nobody will be offended and you can say what in your opinion is right. Your opinions consist of badmouthing the deity we believe in . Instead of emphasizing on how our beliefs are wrong and lame in your opinion , you become blasphemous and use offensive language against Allah. You are free to use offensive language for believers and their beliefs but not against the deity they believe in. No religion and no forum on earth other than forums run by atheists will allow blasphemy.
Ok so let's discuss it in a polite manner. You found it offensive because to you the devil is a horrible/nasty/ being. I am going way beyond just the characteristics attributed to him by humans. What is it exactly about the devil (shaitan/iblis) that you think is bad?
Re: Open Season
You gave away the whole definition of Islam in your question. Yes, life time of worship is nothing if it does not come with complete obedience. That is why we call ourselves Slave of Allah, cause Slave is not the best of best worshiper (Angels were there already), but he is the most obedient of all.
So what is obedience? You are saying you are a slave of Allah out of fear? Isn't that it?
Re: Open Season
So what is obedience? You are saying you are a slave of Allah out of his fear? Isn't that it?
nope. I am slave of Allah out of my choice, (not out of fear) - Just like you dont consider yourself his slave, out of your choice. No compulsion on you or on me.
BTW, why do you think that religious people are some coward brain dead zombies who only follow religion because they are afraid of hell fire. Why cant I obey Allah because I am grateful of what he gave me?
Re: Open Season
So what is obedience? You are saying you are a slave of Allah out of fear? Isn't that it?
just curious if law abiding citizens do that just our of fear of police?
Re: Open Season
Ok so let's discuss it in a polite manner. You found it offensive because to you the devil is a horrible/nasty/ being. I am going way beyond just the characteristics attributed to him by humans. What is it exactly about the devil (shaitan/iblis) that you think is bad?
I know where you are going with this.
I will say this if equate Shaitan with God/Allah. To me it is blasphemous to the nth degree.
Re: Open Season
the way i see it, if you are an atheist, discussions on religious matters that don't really concern you are best left alone. iblees vs. god etc. - no self-respecting atheist can say much before it gets hilarious in their heads.. leave the religious discussions to those that are into it.
Re: Open Season
Queer bhai zindabad
Re: Open Season
nope. I am slave of Allah out of my choice, (not out of fear) - Just like you dont consider yourself his slave, out of your choice. No compulsion on you or on me.
Out of choice? No one slave away their life by choice. You didn't choose Islam. It chose you. You were born in a muslim family.
[QUOTE]
BTW, why do you think that religious people are some coward brain dead zombies who only follow religion because they are afraid of hell fire. Why cant I obey Allah because I am grateful of what he gave me?
[/QUOTE]
No, I don't. What did he give you? life? How do you know it is the God defined by Islam that gave you life? Again, every believer has a personal God it is thankful to. Heck, I am happy that the big bang happened. That the universe gave life to me. So I am as thankful as you are. perhaps matter and evergy are the God? does matter and energy talk to people? Does it care about little details like hijab or whether someone has a beard or not? NO...When a line after line says the word "hell"..it's drilling fear into your head. This is the ONLY reason you personally care about details. If god could be pleased and if it ever spoke to mankind, there would be ONE religion. HIS religion.
Queer- You are right. I shouldn't be arguing. The thing is I don't discuss these things with anyone apart from people on GS. You have no idea how hard is to be an atheist among muslims. I know their faith is strong so I learn something while talking to them. It is not me always wanting to insult religion. Maybe my idea of God is seriously skewed so perhaps one day they can help me see it.. But before that happens, such threads get closed. As if I infect it or something ...
It is not hilarious to me. I am a different kind of atheist I guess.
Re: Open Season
Out of choice? No one slave away their life by choice. You didn't choose Islam. It chose you. You were born in a muslim family.
yes out of choice .. I was born in a Muslim family but staying muslin was a choice, an educated choice.
Re: Open Season
Did Iblis deserve what he got? Does lifetime of worship mean nothing to god? If it doesn't, why do you expect god to treat you any better? He in theory doesn't even sound all that promising.
Yes he does deserve it.
You could be a straight A student all your life. You choose not to study in your final year and you will fail. A lifetime of hard work will not count. Are you going to accept responsibility for your decisions or are you going to blame your failure on the teacher or the bazillion temptations like tv, playstation, internet, or the creators of these temptations that you just can't resist, or your parents for keeping these temptations at home or your friends who dragged you out every evening and didn't "let you" study .... anyone but you? You aren't going to pass final year unless you work hard and pass repeat exams. We aren't going to be forgiven by Allah swt unless we ask for forgiveness. Iblis is anything but apologetic... so yes he does deserve what's coming his way. And yes I do deserve to be thrown in hell if after all those revelations, prophets, messages, warnings, I still choose to follow Iblis having been told a gazillion times that he's my enemy. Just because you've served a company for years doesn't mean your boss can't fire you if you suddenly started breaking rules. He's not going to sit there and analyse how much you've done for the company. If you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing, he has the authority to fire you. Just because someone's been a GS member for 10 years doesn't mean we can't ban him/her if he/she crosses the line and starts posting porn or something. Don't like it? Tough.
And by the way, this Iblis that you're backing up actually doesn't have a feud with Allah swt, he's spiteful of us humans. He doesn't claim to be greater than Allah, he claims to be greater than humans. He isn't out to prove Allah wrong (he knows very well he can't), he's out to drag us to hell with him out of spite. Even after disobeying Allah's commands to bow to Hazrat Adam as he refers to Allah as "My Lord!"... and even after challenging Allah taala that he will misguide His so called "best creations" to hell, he acknowledges that he will not have any control over Allah's devoted servants. "Except thy servants from among them, the devoted ones" - Quran 15:40
So there you go.. Even Iblis does not deny Allah swt's absolute power, I don't know why you feel so bad for poor widdle shaytaan who means us nothing but harm.
And did we not have this blasphemy discussion like exactly 14 days ago? This is what you said 14 days ago:
Ok, this does make sense to me. Yes perhaps I failed to see how making that statement was completely unnecessary. O and trust me, I do not have the desi victim mentality. I am willing to admit my mistakes but I must see them as mistakes first. You just said it wasn't worth mentioning and you are absolutely right. It was a dumb thing to say on my end.
My apologies to all
And 2 weeks later, you're repeating the same thing again. If you agreed it was a dumb thing to say that ended up offending people then why repeat it? LKK only took action when other mods/members reported your post. He isn't acting out of personal bias. If he was, TLK bhai here isn't sleeping, he'd be on his case.
And what queer said.
Re: Open Season
I really don't see the point of an "Open Season" but ok.
Re: Open Season
Traffic…duh!!! 
Re: Open Season
Yes he does deserve it.
You could be a straight A student all your life. You choose not to study in your final year and you will fail. A lifetime of hard work will not count. Are you going to accept responsibility for your decisions or are you going to blame your failure on the teacher or the bazillion temptations like tv, playstation, internet, or the creators of these temptations that you just can't resist, or your parents for keeping these temptations at home or your friends who dragged you out every evening and didn't "let you" study .... anyone but you? You aren't going to pass final year unless you work hard and pass repeat exams. We aren't going to be forgiven by Allah swt unless we ask for forgiveness. Iblis is anything but apologetic... so yes he does deserve what's coming his way. And yes I do deserve to be thrown in hell if after all those revelations, prophets, messages, warnings, I still choose to follow Iblis having been told a gazillion times that he's my enemy. Just because you've served a company for years doesn't mean your boss can't fire you if you suddenly started breaking rules. He's not going to sit there and analyse how much you've done for the company. If you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing, he has the authority to fire you. Just because someone's been a GS member for 10 years doesn't mean we can't ban him/her if he/she crosses the line and starts posting porn or something. Don't like it? Tough.
Now we are talking. That's a horrible analogy. If you are going to use an analogy, let is be something like this:
You work for a company for 20 years in the hopes of a promotion (which his boss promised him) but instead of making you the vice president, he chooses the new guy. That's a good analogy. Is it fair? If the old guy takes action against his boss, it will be somewhat justified. Because his boss turned out to be a jerk.
[QUOTE]
And by the way, this Iblis that you're backing up actually doesn't have a feud with Allah swt, he's spiteful of us humans. He doesn't claim to be greater than Allah, he claims to be greater than humans. He isn't out to prove Allah wrong (he knows very well he can't), he's out to drag us to hell with him out of spite. Even after disobeying Allah's commands to bow to Hazrat Adam as he refers to Allah as "My Lord!"... and even after challenging Allah taala that he will misguide His so called "best creations" to hell, he acknowledges that he will not have any control over Allah's devoted servants. "Except thy servants from among them, the devoted ones" - Quran 15:40
[/QUOTE]
Right but I am not siding with Shaitan. I am only saying God is really not that different from Iblis himself. He is just as unjust. He showed injustice to Iblis. He could do the same to you but could be an entirely different scenario. Say God asks you to kill your entire family. For you to prove your loyalty you will have to do it. despite all your prayers, obedience, you will be thrown in hell if you don't do it. I am not going to ask if you are going to do it or not. And you can't say god could never ask you to do so...just look at all the bloodshed caused by religions.
[QUOTE]
So there you go.. Even Iblis does not deny Allah swt's absolute power, I don't know why you feel so bad for poor widdle shaytaan who means us nothing but harm.
[/QUOTE]
Not feeling bad about him. I don't believe he even exists. We like to blame shaitan for everything that goes wrong though we are conscious moral beings and capable of understanding the results of our actions.
[QUOTE]
And did we not have this blasphemy discussion like exactly 14 days ago? This is what you said 14 days ago:
**And 2 weeks later, you're repeating the same thing again. If you agreed it was a dumb thing to say that ended up offending people then why repeat it? LKK only took action when other mods/members reported your post. He isn't acting out of personal bias. If he was, TLK bhai here isn't sleeping, he'd be on his case.
**And what queer said.
[/QUOTE]
Because the thread got closed. That may have been unnecessary to say in that thread. But the progression of the new closed thread led me to make a similar comment. It was not unnecessary this time and in no way was offensive.
Anyway, I will listen to Queer and leave you guys alone. I shall bar myself forever from the religion forum. Unless of course invited :D
Re: Open Season
Fair enough.