Only Muslims would go to Heaven, every one else would go into Hell fire; Period…..

Asslam Allaikum Brothers in Islam,
Due to the sensitive nature of this discussion, I delved for some info regarding the issue and this is what I have found. It is an excerpt from a ruling by the famous theologian grand shaykh who recently passed away in Saudi Arabia.

"5. One of the fundamentals of Islam is that any Jew or Christian who does not embrace Islam should be considered and designated as an unbeliever (Kafir) as well as an enemy of Allah, of His Messengers and the Believers (Muminoon), and such people will be the people of the Fire in accordance to Allah’s Saying, that, “Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) and among al-Mushrikun (Polytheists), were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.” [Al-Qur’an 98:1]

And Allah says, “Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’an, and the Prophet Muhammad (sallalahu 'alaihi wa sallam)) from among the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) and al-Mushrikun
(Polytheists) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.” [Al-Quran 98:6]

It was narrated in Sahih Muslim that the Prophet (sallalahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, “Anyone of this Ummah, whether a Jew or a Christian who heard about me and died without believing in what was revealed to me, he will be among the people of the Hell-Fire.”

Based on the above, anyone who does not charge Jews and Christians with Kufr will be a Kaafir himself according to the Shari’ah principle. (ie; Anyone who does not charge the Kaafir with Kufr will be Kaafir himself.)

  1. Adulterating the fundamentals of Islamic Faith and the facts of Islamic Law (Shari’ah) to serve the call (for the unification of religions), by mixing them together and casting them to one mould is but a wicked call. It aims at mixing the Truth with Falsehood, destroying Islam, demolishing its foundations and bringing all Muslims to clear apostasy (Riddah). This can be seen in the saying of Allah, The Most High, “And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can.” [Al-Qur’an 2:217]. Allah Says, “They wish that you reject faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you will become equal (like one another).” [Al-Qur’an 4:89]

  2. The inevitable consequence of such evil calls are:

· The cancellation of differences between Islam and Kufr, Truth and Falsehood, and complete negation of enjoining the right and forbidding the wrong.

· Breaking of barriers of alienation between Muslims and Kafiroon (unbelievers) so that no loyalty nor Jihad nor struggle for the sake of elevating Allah’s Word on Allah’s earth may take place. Allah, The Most High, commands “Fight against those who (1) do not believe in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, (4) those who acknowledge not the religion of Truth - ie Islam, among the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” [Al-Qur’an 9:29]

“And fight against the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolators, disbelievers in the oneness of Allah) collectively, as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allah is with the pious.” [Al-Qur’an 9:36]

Had this (unification) call emanated from a Muslim, it would be considered explicit Riddah (apostasy) from Islam, as it is in conflict with the principles of Islamic faith, and accepts disbelief in Allah - The Glorified. This call annuls what was proved by the Qur’an as true, and denies that the Qur’an has abrogated all the books that preceded it, and also negates that Islam had abrogated all the previous religions. Based on this, the call for unification is rejected according to Shari’ah and is strictly prohibited by all evidences of Islam in the Qur’an, the Sunnah, and Ijmaa’ (consensus).

Based on the aforesaid:

· It is not permissible for any Muslim who believes in Allah as the Rabb (Creator/Provider/Owner), in Islam as the religion, and Muhammad (sallalahu 'alaihi wa sallam) as a Prophet and Messenger, to call for this abominable belief, or encourage others to join it, or spread it among other Muslims, let alone accepting it, attending its conferences or symposiums and affiliating with its assemblies.

· It is prohibited for any Muslim to print the Torah and the Bible even independently. So how could it be permissible to print them with the Qur’an in one book? Accordingly, whoever does that, or calls for it, has strayed far away (from the Right Path), as this is but a combination of the Truth (the Noble Qur’an) with the altered or abrogated books of the Torah and the Bible.

· It is prohibited for any Muslim to respond to that call for building (a mosque, a church, and a temple) in one complex, as this would imply a confession that there are religions by which Allah can be worshipped, besides Islam. This would also involve a denial that Islam is the purest of all the other religions. It would also imply a serious admission that religions are three and that people on earth may adopt whatever they wish of them, equally, and that Islam has not superseded the religions that preceded it.

· Undoubtedly, approving, believing, or accepting this call is considered Kufr (disbelief) and explicit error as it plainly contradicts the Noble Qur’an, the Purified Sunnah, and the Muslim Ijmaa’ (consensus). It would also imply an agreement that the alterations done by the Jews and Christians are from Allah - Glory Be to Him. Moreover, it is not permissible to call churches, Allah’s houses’, as the Christians do not perform a correct worship that is accepted by Allah, and it is a kind of worship not based on
Islam. Allah, The Most High, Says, “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [Al-Qur’an 3:85]"

The website address is
www.islaam.com/articles/interfaith.htm

Assalamu alaykum!
Thank you brother Iqadeer for posting that superb article by Ibn Baaz.

This articulated the belief of Islam perfectly.

:)

wa salaam

Asif

Both arguements made by MNI and Iqadeer are based on the opinion that Christians and Jews are Kafirs. Some questions:

1) Are Christians and Jews labelled Kafirs in the Quran? Or Hadith?
2) Is there a difference between Jews and Christians who existed pre-Muhammad and post-Muhammad? Didn't they both reject the message of Islam (i.e. Jews rejected Isa, Christians rejected Muhammad - both were preaching Islam)?

If the answer to question number one is yes they are labelled Kufr and the answer to question number two yes their is a difference between past Ahl al Kitab and present Ahl al Kitab (thus reconciling confusion in verses 2:62 and 5:69) than you will have convinced me of your point of view - Christians and Jews by the dictates of Islam are hellbound.

Note: Iqadeer, no one is arguing for the unification of the three religions. Just the question of the destiny of the Ahl al Kitab. Is it set in stone, and we as Muslims can claim with 100% assurance that Ahl al Kitab will be bound to Hell or is their a possibility that they may meet up with some mercy from Allah, depending on His will and choice.

Achtung

MNI wrote: "1. You have thus far ignored verses like: 5:75-76. "They disbelieve who say God is Christ son of Mary ....Whoever joins other Gods with God, God will forbid him The garden (jannah) and the fire will be his abode."

I think you've misquoted. These verses are not 5:75-76. The verses causing confusion are 2:62 and 5:69. That is why I am concentrating on them. Find where these verses fall in the Qur'an and I'll comment on them, they are not 5:75-76. They read:
*
YUSUFALI (5:75): Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
YUSUFALI (5:76): Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
*
MNI wrote: "Despite my repeated reminders, I might add. You sound more like an intellectually dishonest apologist rather than someone who's interested in having a discussion."

I am very much interested in having a discussion.

MNI wrote: "SO NEXT TIME I WILL NOT EVEN READ YOUR POST IF YOU DO NOT ADDRESS THIS ISSUE."

Is that a threat or a promise? Anyway, I think I've addressed it now.

Achtung

Achtung:

would you please mind to tell us that in your openion:

Christian, Jews, Kafirs and Mushriks would go to heaven on the base of their dead or only Christian and Jews would go to Heaven along with the Muslims?

Second: Do christains believe in the good deads to go into the heaven?

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
[5:72]

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. [5.73]

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah’s is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things. [5:17]

9:30: The Jews call Uzair a son of God and Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth;they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. God’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth.

And the most unequivocal to me is this:
4:150-151:
"Those who deny God and his Apostles, and (those) who wish to separate God from His apostles, saying: “We believe in some but reject others”: And those who wish to take a course midway.They are in truth unbelievers (kafiroon) and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. "

Is this enough from the Qur’an for Mr.Achtung or does he want more?

The answer to achtung’s second question is of course YES! I never said otherwise…and that’s exactly how all the above is reconciled with the verse that 2:62 verse.

Rgds
MNI

MNI

Assalam Allaikum Achtung,
This article was posted by me in full sincerety without any motive to put you or anyone else down or to prove you wrong. The article in itself deals with the questions of the jews and the christians quite effectively, and also happens to be a verdict of a world-renowned Alim. If after reading the article there is some confusion or lingering doubts in your mind please make dua to Allah subhanu taallah to clear them. In my humble opinion it has stated all the principles according to the Quran and the hadith to determine the status of those who call themselves christians or jews in today's world. Regards and dua.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited June 14, 1999).]

Iqadeer: "This article was posted by me in full sincerety without any motive to put you or anyone else down or to prove you wrong."

I understand. And I'm glad you posted the article.

I'm on the verge of changing my opinion. Thanks for quoting the correct verses MNI (they are self explanatory). The only confusion which remains (at least with me) is in reference to 2:62 and 5:69. If indeed these verses are referring to the Jews and Christians of the past, how are they different from the Jews and Christians of the present and further why are Sabians included in the verse. The reason I ask, is because to the best of my knowledge, these groups both pre and post Muhammad have rejected the message of Islam. So why has Allah given pre-Muhammad, Christians, Jews and Sabians, the possibility of entering heaven? What is the difference between the two groups? Jews rejected Isa, Christians associated Isa with Allah, they both continue to do so today, so why does 2:62 and 5:69 discriminate between present day non-believers and past non-believers?

Iqadeer wrote: "If after reading the article there is some confusion or lingering doubts in your mind please make dua to Allah subhanu taallah to clear them."

Good advice. I'm hoping you can also help me clear some of this "confusion".

msaqibj - I can't answer those questions, still struggling to understand.

By the way, can we start a new thread, this one is getting difficult to open (its too long). Thanks,

Achtung

Achtung,

The difference between pe-Islamic and post-Islamic Christians is that UNTIL THE COMING OF RASOOL ALLAH SAL ALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM AND THEIR PROCLAMATION OF PROPHETHOOD, THE SHARIAH OF ISA ALAYHI SALAAM WAS VALID; those who truly followed the actual message of Isa alayhi salaam were going to jannat; but once our beloved master sal allahu alayhi wa sallam's prophethood was revealed, it abrogated the shariah of isa alayhi salaam and henceforth--until qiyaamat--only Huzoor Paak's shariat is valid.

I hope that clears you doubts :)

I have started an other thread on the same topic, because a respectable member asked for it.
Please continue your arguments in the other thread.
Thanks
I am still waiting for my answers, Achtung and I will appricate, very much, if you take time to clear up my confusion.
Thanks

Two things in answer to your question:

  1. First is pointed out by 4:150 that I quoted. Before Mr.Mohammad came with supposed relevations, no Jew or Christian was obliged to believe in some Prophet who had not yet arrived. After the announcement of Mr.Mohammad that he was a prophet of god, it is incumbent on everyone to believe in him as well. If you say you believe in Jesus or david but not in mohammad, you are doing what 4:150 points to. Conversely it is obligatory for Muslims to believe in all the prophets as well and no Muslim can deny the prophethood of Jesus or David and call herself Muslim.

2: The Qur'anic point of view is that Christians and Jews are not adhering to the original message of their prophets that was Islam. They have corrupted it. And when this corruption is exposed to the world by Mr.Mohammad and company (and Mr.Deedaat today) they should be able to see it.

Now all the above is what a mullah will tell you. That's how the theologians have resolved a contradiction. This is what I believed when I was a believing Muslim. Now as an agnostic, my theory is that the contradiction is there because Mr.Mohammad said things as the occasion demanded. Over 23 years, all of us say conflicting things and if we're passing them off as god's words..the contradiction is going to seep into that as well.

MNI

MNI,

Well...you sold your soul for this dunya in exchange for eternal damnation; what a terrible deal you've made; btw, do you know what the punishment in islam for ridda' [apostasy] is??

and show some respect for the Prophet of Islam [sal allahu alayhi wa sallam];

I suppose Mr.Asif is referring to the Hadith

man baddala deenahu fa'qtaloohu

HAHAHAHA. Yep I know about that. And where did I show disrespect to Mr.Mohammad?

MNI

Asif,

Stop using threats:

"btw, do you know what the punishment in islam for ridda' [apostasy] is??"

That's how your Fundamentalist Islam stays together

You have made similar threats towards me; Listen O' soldier of extremist Islam - why don't you spell out TO ME what the penalty for insulting "your" Islam is ?

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 15, 1999).]

Assalam Allaikum Achtung,
I am glad that you have been able to learn something from the article. As to your question relating to the verses, I have found an opinion of a scholar, namely Sheikh Al-Saleh Munnajid, which I am posting here. I hope that it answers most of your concerns. Here it is:

Praise be to Allaah.

[quote]
What you refer to in your question is mentioned in two similar aayaat
in the Qur’aan. The first of them is the aayah (interpretation of the
meaning): “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and
Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last
Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their
Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah
2:62]

The second is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Surely,
those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the
Christians – whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and
worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they
grieve.” [al-Maa’idah 5:69]

In order to understand these aayaat correctly, we need to refer to the
scholars of Tafseer (Qur’aanic commentary). The great Imaam
Ismaa’eel ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his
tafseer of the aayah from Soorat al-Baqarah:

“Allaah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous
nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this
will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet
[Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will
not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they
have left behind. As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘No
doubt! Verily, the awliya’ of Allaah [i.e., those who believe in the
Oneness of Allaah and fear Allaah much, and love Allaah much], no
fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.’ [Yoonus 10:62].
And Allaah tells us what the angels say to the believers at the time of
death (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, those who say, “Our
Lord is Allaah,” then they istaqaamu [stood straight, i.e., truly
followed Islam], on them the angels will descend (at the time of their
death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings
of Paradise which you have been promised!”’ [Fussilat 41:30]

As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the
Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be
upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow
the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow
‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith
meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws
of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable
to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of
‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a
religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in
the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a
statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone,
after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance
with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet
of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews
were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to
the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa
(peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him
and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became
Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the
children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and
obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are
the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of
their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in
all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to
come.”

Commenting on the aayah in Soorat al-Baqarah, Ibn Katheer (may
Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“What is meant is that every group believed in Allaah and the Last
Day, which is the appointed Day of Reckoning, and did righteous
deeds. But after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) was sent to both mankind and the jinn, true belief can only
be in accordance with the way of Muhammad (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whoever follows his way will not
fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind.
[/quote]

Please continue the discussion on the new thread opened by msaqibj.

iqadeer - I have pasted your latest reply there.