One in four is Muslim, study says

[happyheart]

Yes, and the lion's share of modern inventions come from the US, UK, and Germany. Most medical advances come from the US. Thankfully the West constantly evolved its culture, politics, got rid of the yoke of religion so it could bring all these things to the world instead of freezing itself in time...

Nearly all cultures constantly evolve and do so in a progressive direction. What worked 1,000 years ago means nothing when assessing the modern world. The West did not get to where it is today by accident. It did so through a process of evolution. If the West froze itself in 1800 we would be living in a Russian and Chinese dominated world today.

Get a history class mate whaterver you are saying is already chewed by the Gora logh.
Don't try to be like a gora Reason and u still did not anwser my question remember????
:)

[Reason]

Re: One in four is Muslim, study says

Can you list the major modern inventions invented outside the West? For instance, the internet we are using was invented in the US.

[CM]

Re: One in four is Muslim, study says

Yeah and Al Gore did it all himself

[Reason]

Re: One in four is Muslim, study says

History of the Internet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[happyheart]

Can you list the major modern inventions invented outside the West? For instance, the internet we are using was invented in the US.

MODERN invention wow
i am happy that you ARE little bit aware of Islamic inventions lolz

oh who encyclopedia for free wow what are u trying to say mate we do not appreciate the modern inventions? Its all patented and we are not claiming it NOR can YOU claim it since u are not a Westener and you will always be brown Asian Pakkie no matter if you have a US Paspoort they will searc you strip you at the airport no matter what you say.

Anyhow lets go back to history class and let remember what uncle happyheart once asked you to do. Did you do your homework? hmmmm I guess not but i am not a bad uncle i will politely ask you agains.

If you compare the murders/death committed by:

Islamists
USA/West
Communistss
Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years?
last 200 years even? last 300 years even?
last 400 years even?
lastt 500 years if you want????

[mercenary2k]

@CM

Yeah and Al Gore did it all himself

of course not…the Taliban invented the internet…and mullah omar created facebook

[mercenary2k]

If you compare the murders/death committed by:

Islamists USA/West Communistss Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years? last 200 years even? last 300 years even? last 400 years even? lastt 500 years if you want????

The West...because they invented more lethal weapons and they conqurered empires in the Americas, Africa and Asia while Arabs and muslims were stuck in the desert with ZERO progress...its only when oil was discovered that arabs hired westerners and south asian laborers to build their country

that continues in dubai...

freedom, democracy, human rights are all concepts found in the west...and not in the islamic world which is dominated by dicators who practice the worst form of human rights and where there is no freedom

Dont be jealous of the West.....learn from them

[Raj_ind]

Islamists USA/West Communistss Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years? last 200 years even? last 300 years even? last 400 years even? lastt 500 years if you want????

its muslims in last 50 years, Saddam hussain's regiem, iran iraq war, Darfur, massacre of bangladesis muslims.

All of the above quoted examples is muslims killing muslims only. forget about the rest.

[Raj_ind]

of course not...the Taliban invented the internet........and mullah omar created facebook

lol, are u sure? I have heard they invented much much more than that. Plz dont undermine their achievements.

[Reason]

@happyheart

MODERN invention wow
i am happy that you ARE little bit aware of Islamic inventions lolz

When are Muslims going to stop resting on the laurels of centuries ago? There are real reasons why Muslims have not invented anything major in** hundreds** of years. Correct them and contribute something positive to the world other than babies.

Its all patented and we are not claiming it NOR can YOU claim it since u are not a Westener and you will always be brown

I am an American. We are not a state intended for one group like the “land of the pure.”

of course not…the Taliban invented the internet…and mullah omar created facebook

Dont be jealous of the West…learn from them

:k:

Many Islamists would gladly kill all “kuffar” if they had the means to do so. The US has the means to nuke Afghanistan, Iran, etc. off the face of the Earth but chooses not to.

its muslims in last 50 years, Saddam hussain’s regiem, iran iraq war, Darfur, massacre of bangladesis muslims.

All of the above quoted examples is muslims killing muslims only. forget about the rest.

Good point, although I think Mao alone puts Communism over the top against Muslims

[happyheart]

The West...because they invented more lethal weapons and they conqurered empires in the Americas, Africa and Asia while Arabs and muslims were stuck in the desert with ZERO progress...its only when oil was discovered that arabs hired westerners and south asian laborers to build their country

that continues in dubai...

freedom, democracy, human rights are all concepts found in the west...and not in the islamic world which is dominated by dicators who practice the worst form of human rights and where there is no freedom

Dont be jealous of the West.....learn from them

First of all i do not agree with you here because you are totally wrong my friend.
1. I am not jealous :) so be careful please what u assume. I live in the West most of my life
and i am fully aware of the Western worlds achievements.

1. When you say: "freedom, democracy, human rights are all concepts found in the west..."
   Are you serieus? I mean you must be being sarcastic here right? I am sure u are well educated in Western education but are u aware of Islamic history or non Western history?? I am afraid you are not.

2. You say: "not in the islamic world which is dominated by dicators who practice the wors
   form of human rights and where there is no freedom".
   Merey bhayaa i am 100 % sure you are awar of the fact that the ONLY powers who benefitted and made sure those dictators came to power and ARE STILL in power is the WEST.
   I know u know this so i fais to undertstand your third comment.

[Reason]

Re: One in four is Muslim, study says

2) Freedom, democracy definitely are Western concepts. Even Islamists admit this when they call those ideas "kuffar." Full human rights for all is also a Western concept, although limited human rights were granted by some older entities, i.e. ancient Persia.

3) Islam has a 1,400 year history of one man rule. When Muslim empires ruled Spain, part of France, Sicily, Greece, Russia, India, etc.--all democracies today (well maybe not Russia!)--did Muslims ever allow elections in these countries? Did they let them vote on whether they approved of the Arab/Turkish/Mughal/Tatar occupation? How about at least autonomy and electing their governors/emirs?

Blaming the West for dictators being in power in Muslim countries is pathetic but typical. How come Western allies in Latin America and the rest of Asia evolved democratically? Why not Muslim nations--particularly Arab countries? There is something internal to the Islamic world in general and the Arab world in particular that is the reason for this.

[happyheart]

2) Freedom, democracy definitely are Western concepts. Even Islamists admit this when they call those ideas "kuffar." Full human rights for all is also a Western concept, although limited human rights were granted by some older entities, i.e. ancient Persia.

3) Islam has a 1,400 year history of one man rule. When Muslim empires ruled Spain, part of France, Sicily, Greece, Russia, India, etc.--all democracies today (well maybe not Russia!)--did Muslims ever allow elections in these countries? Did they let them vote on whether they approved of the Arab/Turkish/Mughal/Tatar occupation? How about at least autonomy and electing their governors/emirs?

Blaming the West for dictators being in power in Muslim countries is pathetic but typical. How come Western allies in Latin America and the rest of Asia evolved democratically? Why not Muslim nations--particularly Arab countries? There is something internal to the Islamic world in general and the Arab world in particular that is the reason for this.

Again and again and again i ask you mate:

If you compare the murders/death committed by:

Islamists
USA/West
Communistss
Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years?
last 200 years even? last 300 years even?
last 400 years even?
lastt 500 years if you want????

[happyheart]

2) Freedom, democracy definitely are Western concepts. Even Islamists admit this when they call those ideas "kuffar." Full human rights for all is also a Western concept, although limited human rights were granted by some older entities, i.e. ancient Persia.

3) Islam has a 1,400 year history of one man rule. When Muslim empires ruled Spain, part of France, Sicily, Greece, Russia, India, etc.--all democracies today (well maybe not Russia!)--did Muslims ever allow elections in these countries? Did they let them vote on whether they approved of the Arab/Turkish/Mughal/Tatar occupation? How about at least autonomy and electing their governors/emirs?

Blaming the West for dictators being in power in Muslim countries is pathetic but typical. How come Western allies in Latin America and the rest of Asia evolved democratically? Why not Muslim nations--particularly Arab countries? There is something internal to the Islamic world in general and the Arab world in particular that is the reason for this.

You know what is pathetic? you not anwsering my question :)

If you compare the murders/death committed by:

Islamists
USA/West
Communistss
Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years?
last 200 years even? last 300 years even?
last 400 years even?
lastt 500 years if you want????

[hareem01]

Let me try and make this simple for you. Do you think the quality of life has considerably improved from what was there around 1000 years ago. A simple yes or no answer. Dont beat around the bush.

I sincerely believe that the quality of life has considerably improved. This has happened because of some of the path breaking discoveries and inventions. It is easy to sit in an armchair,watch the TV, talk on a cellphone and then blame scientific advances for all the ills of society.

You're not happy with Muslims* inventing* and you're not happy with Muslims not inventing.

Btw, there's something called Carbon footprints that the modern technology has caused, you should read on this.

Also in these modern times, more money is involved in research for lethal weapons than it is for the research on epidemics and vaccines. Billions of people are about to die for not having clean water to drink while modern world feels proud in inventing advance gadgets and robots to kill more civillians.

[picoico]

freedom, democracy, human rights are all concepts found in the west...and not in the islamic world which is dominated by dicators who practice the worst form of human rights and where there is no freedom

The "West"...at one point in history? It would be silly to suggest that the Greeks (who most definitely "invented" democracy) were somehow beholden to notions of human rights too.

Equally absurd would be any claim that there is NO concern for these outside of the West at any epoch in history.

[picoico]

2) Freedom, democracy definitely are Western concepts. Even Islamists admit this when they call those ideas "kuffar." Full human rights for all is also a Western concept, although limited human rights were granted by some older entities, i.e. ancient Persia.

Claps...forgive some of us if chills don't go up and down our spines. The absence of certain freedomes does not imply the absence of all freedomes. Restricted freedomes, one can argue, is actually a good thing.

[quote]

3) Islam has a 1,400 year history of one man rule.

[/quote]

More often than not, it was an oligarchy and the Caliph's rule was not absolute. The Caliph could not rule wihtout support from key tribal figures.

Further, the concept of consulation is beyond a nice notion, it's a requirement. Although not democractic per sae, at least Muslims can boast that they didn't vote in a lunatic, who later convinced them en mass, to the tune of some 80% of them, to back an absurd war...you get the gist, I hope.

Elections are an ends to a means, and if one wants to get dogmatic and loopy over them, so be it.

The true value of democracy is not the elections, or even the vapid participation by the ignorant masses, but of checks and balances and divisions of power which is a true innovation that America has perhaps done best at, and has nothing to do with democracy really.

[quote]

Blaming the West for dictators being in power in Muslim countries is pathetic but typical. How come Western allies in Latin America and the rest of Asia evolved democratically?

[/quote]

LOL...because, once the wall fell, they were pretty much left alone!

[mo293]

Again and again and again i ask you mate:

If you compare the murders/death committed by:

Islamists USA/West Communistss Nazi's

Then who commited the most last 100 years? last 200 years even? last 300 years even? last 400 years even? lastt 500 years if you want????

Such questions are seldom answered for obvious reasons. :)

[Reason]

Spin: the caliphate was hardly democratic regardless of how you try to dress it up. Can you name a single election during the caliphate era (counting both the Arab and Ottoman empires)?

[QUOTE]
LOL...because, once the wall fell, they were pretty much left alone!

[/QUOTE]
1) The wall fell in 1989. The evolution to democracy was already well underway by then.

2) The US is still involved in Latin America and was involved even before the Cold War.

3) It is another myth that foreign nations are preventing Arabs or Muslims from democratizing. Only in the case of Egypt is this a somewhat valid claim, even though in that case if Mubarak is toppled he would be replaced by an Islamist undemocratic government. The level of aid elsewhere is insignificant or nonexistent. Jordan is the 4th or 5th largest recipient of American aid. What does it get? $400 million a year. One has to be quite naive to believe $400 million is enough to "control" a foreign government. If what you say is true, moreover, where is the democratization in all the Arab countries the US does not care about? There have been pushes for democracy in Muslim countries but this has been conspicuously a non-Arab phenomenon. There clearly is something in Arab culture which makes it hostile ground for democracy.

[QUOTE]
Such questions are seldom answered for obvious reasons.
[/QUOTE]

We've answered it two or three times but HH continues to spam the same invalid post in every thread.

[picoico]

Spin: the caliphate was hardly democratic regardless of how you try to dress it up. Can you name a single election during the caliphate era (counting both the Arab and Ottoman empires)?

Well, no...the spin is that I calimed the Caliphate was democratic, or that it even should have been, or that it was lesser in some way for not being so.

Was there ever consensus? Yes. Was there a form of representation? Yes. To claim democracy has a monopoly over these is insane.

[quote]

1) The wall fell in 1989. The evolution to democracy was already well underway by then.

[/quote]

When the cold war stopped, so did the very messy latin american policies. That was the point.

2) The US is still involved in Latin America and was involved even before the Cold War.

I don't kow what you mean by "involved", but the nature of the game has changed substantially.

I can think of a few places where cold war policies still have momentum, but that's about it.

[quote]

3) It is another myth that foreign nations are preventing Arabs or Muslims from democratizing.

[/quote]

Claps again...nice speech. Why are you telling me that?

May not be the great evil as so often imagined....but they're hardly the noble knight, out to save the region, either. And only a loon would suggest that they don't meddle...they're involved...they don't make things better...what does that make 'em? Just as bad.