Ok People Questions about Aysha.

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Daer sholay, you seem to be adamant in your claim which does not make much sense at all!

You are trying to blame Imam (as) for a mistake that Ayesha made. HOw was Imam Ali (as) supposed to talk to her? via the telephone or something!!!!!!If she came out of home in the battle field, does that make every single man who looked at her disobeyer of the Quran?. You tell me, if i go out shooting innocent people in the street from my liscenced weapon and than once i go in court, would i be elagible to make an excuse saying "Why did people came in the way of bullets!"

Why did she come out in the first place. It is not like she didn't know what she was doing. History testifies that she was begged to stay back by ummul momineen Bibi Umme Salma (as), but Ayesha refused to listen.

Why are you not willing to write down Imam Ali's instructions to his warriors? Have you even tried to read it in the history? or have you turned blind eye toward that too?

22

Brothers....
Again you have slipped from the topic.
Actual question is about leaving home by Hadrat Ayesha(Radi Allah an ha) put forward by shah jahan...

war between Hadrat Ayesha(radi Allah an ha) and Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an ho) is a big topic leave it for any other time in any other thread

No body answers my simple question....

Again

Bothers...what about your own mothers

do they leave home every day or not(for Islamic or un-Islamic activities)?????????????

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahl_e_Sunnah:
**wasir

i believe aisha was the wife of the prophet(saw) and not shah jehan's....aisha is being referred to in the quran not shah jehan's...

now answer that straight forward question...she must have left her house, rite?
she started the war against the rightly guided caliph...isn't that wrong? do u not think that the caliph held some respect in society...as their leader?!

**
[/quote]

23

We also must take into consideration that hazrat Ali was a part of Ahle-bait, he has every rght(if not more)to be in the house than Aysha!!

And i must thank you all for keeping a level head and thank you for not leading this topic astray!!

Wasir,
The Quranic Ayat is ment for the Prophets wives!! It is not ment for my mother or my wife(when I have one)!!
If you give me the ayat on keeping my mother in my house I will follow it to the last word!!

When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

24

sahih bukhari shareef:

Book 031, Number 5915:
This hadith has been narrated. on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camelg. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind hrin in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'All said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.

is this sufficient?

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

25

The fact still remains that the Ahl'Bayt means ALL the Wives, as the Qur'aan has proven.

So, if the the love of the family was so sincere, than the issue of one member of the Ahl'Bayt coming out of the house would never of become an issue!

What was the motive of murdering, the second and third Caliphs?

Whatever it was by the insurgents, it succeeded. That is why we have the split between the Muslims, even to this day.

The reason why Hazrat Ali RA did not refrain from going to war was because it would of gone against the interests of the Sabaites, who were a major part of Hazrat Ali RA's force, and were out to fan the fire of enmity between the contending parties with the ulterior motive of undermining Islam. It was a Sabaite who actually martyred Hazrat Zubair RA.

The instructions Hazrat Ali RA gave to his forces were no different to any other Muslim leader giving instructions concerning his own people. This was a battle concerning two Believing parties.

The sad fact remains, that both members of the Ahl'Bayt went to war with each other.

26

Now you are takin this topic on to the wives as Ahle-bait argument!!

I Asked a Question and i expect you all to answer it.

Ok let us for one minute suggest that wives are Ahle-bait.

It is a fact ahle-bait do not do wrong things as the are purified through Purification I.E they CAN'T do anything wrong............

That automatically meas Aysha is not a part of ahle-bait as she went astry by not listening to Allah(Quran)!!(she did wrong)

Now that that's clear can any of you answer my question?

When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

27

Whether you want to go off topic or not is a separate issue.

The fact still remains that Hazrat Ai'Shaa did go out of the house and marched against Hazrat Ali RA. And Hazrat Ali RA did not treat Hazrat Ai'Shaa as a Mother of Believers and did not also deal with her from behind a screen.

Fortunately, it is not all 'one sided' as you had hoped to prove.

Now for the little 'dig' similar to the one you got in sideways.

Where is Hazrat Ali RA mentioned in the Qur'aan when refering to Ahl'Bayt!

28

Sholay you are being ignorant here.

You are trying to blame Imam (as) for a mistake that Ayesha made. HOw was Imam Ali (as) supposed to talk to her? via the telephone or something!!!!!!If she came out of home in the battle field, does that make every single man who looked at her disobeyer of the Quran?. You tell me, if i go out shooting innocent people in the street from my liscenced weapon and than once i go in court, would i be elagible to make an excuse saying "Why did people came in the way of bullets!"

Why did she come out in the first place. It is not like she didn't know what she was doing. History testifies that she was begged to stay back by ummul momineen Bibi Umme Salma (as), but Ayesha refused to listen.

Why are you not willing to write down Imam Ali's instructions to his warriors? Have you even tried to read it in the history? or have you turned blind eye toward that too?

HOw many sunni references do you want that tell you that WIVES are not part of the verse of purification??
Read
-Durre Munthur by Allaha Jalla uddin Sayuti
-Read the shaan-e-nazool of ayat-e-tutheer in Sahi Muslim

If you still believe that Prophet's wives are part of Ahlul Bayt (as) than please explain why Allah is claiming them to be pure as they can be in one verse and in other verse calling them with twisted hearts?
Or tell me you are wahabi and this behes will be well and over. Thanks

[This message has been edited by Pagluu (edited July 05, 2001).]

29

Pagluu & Co

I try in vain not to go off topic, but let's get a few facts clear.

What carries more authority, the Qur'aan or A'Hadeeth?

Obviously the Qur'aan.

The Qur'aan quite clearly mentions who the Ahl'Bayt is and NO I repeat NO A'Hadeeth is required to explain the family.

Secondly, if I was to use the same reason of thought as you, then the following would be said.

Hazrat Ali RA is NOT mentioned in any ayats relating to the Ahl'Bayt, but the Wives are. Therefore they carry more authority.

Hazrat Ali RA did NOT treat one of the Mothers of Believers as a Mother. Therefore, this is in direct contradiction of the Qur'aan.

Hazrat Ali RA knew very well that Hazrat Ai'Shaa had marched towards and therefore knew very well in advance that he would not be dealing with her via a screen. There was more than ample opportunity to do this.

It was Hazrat Ali RA's troops who martyred another Sahabaa - Hazrat Zubair RA. Therefore, the blame must ultimately lie with the Leader. How do you correct this!

Why was the previous Caliph murdered and why was Hazrat Ali RA reluctant to avenge his death. Knowing full well that he was in line for the Caliphate next! Explain the motives.

Finally, the initial thread was opened in order to politely blame Hazrat Ai'Shaa for certain actions, even though mud slinging warnings were given.

What people forgot to realise is that the Qur'aan is there for everyones reference and that the issue in questioin was not a ONE WAY traffic!

Whether people accept Hazrat Ai'Shaa as Ahl'Bayt or not is a personal choice, which was originally refused by Abdullah Ibn Saba!

30

I have a question: The ayah above requests wives to stay in their houses as good muslims. Is that correct, or am i taking it out of context? See, I personally don't see the haram of a woman going to a wedding or the shopping center, etc...? If going to weddings, shopping centers, etc is against Islam, what is the logic in it. I am sure plenty of noble muslim women in the Prophet's time stepped out of their houses...so what is the harm in stepping out of one's house?

31

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**

Pagluu & Co

I try in vain not to go off topic, but let's get a few facts clear.

What carries more authority, the Qur'aan or A'Hadeeth?

Obviously the Qur'aan.

The Qur'aan quite clearly mentions who the Ahl'Bayt is and NO I repeat NO A'Hadeeth is required to explain the family.

Secondly, if I was to use the same reason of thought as you, then the following would be said.

Hazrat Ali RA is NOT mentioned in any ayats relating to the Ahl'Bayt, but the Wives are. Therefore they carry more authority.

Hazrat Ali RA did NOT treat one of the Mothers of Believers as a Mother. Therefore, this is in direct contradiction of the Qur'aan.

Hazrat Ali RA knew very well that Hazrat Ai'Shaa had marched towards and therefore knew very well in advance that he would not be dealing with her via a screen. There was more than ample opportunity to do this.

It was Hazrat Ali RA's troops who martyred another Sahabaa - Hazrat Zubair RA. Therefore, the blame must ultimately lie with the Leader. How do you correct this!

Why was the previous Caliph murdered and why was Hazrat Ali RA reluctant to avenge his death. Knowing full well that he was in line for the Caliphate next! Explain the motives.

Finally, the initial thread was opened in order to politely blame Hazrat Ai'Shaa for certain actions, even though mud slinging warnings were given.

What people forgot to realise is that the Qur'aan is there for everyones reference and that the issue in questioin was not a ONE WAY traffic!

Whether people accept Hazrat Ai'Shaa as Ahl'Bayt or not is a personal choice, which was originally refused by Abdullah Ibn Saba!**
[/quote]

Man you are one ignorant person. You are consistantly ignoring points raised by me and others and you are just happy to come up with nothing more than lame stuff.

Of the 124,000 Prophets’ that Allah (swt) sent, what evidence is there that they left everything for their followers as Sadaqah (Charity)? If they did, then why did the Prophet (saaws)’s wives not give all their possessions to the Islamic State? After all, Ahl’ul Sunnah consider the wives to be Ahlul'bayt. Sadaqah is haram on the Ahlul’bayt, this being the case why did they hold on to their possessions?

If you are a sunni than you believe SAHIHS to be authentic. Why dont you go and read in SAHIH the shaan-e-nazool of the Ayat-e-Tutheer? You obviously are Abdul Wahab's follower arent you? please let me know so i can stop wasting time on guys like you who are ignorant and are very keen to spread it amongt innocent muslims.

[This message has been edited by Pagluu (edited July 05, 2001).]

32

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Where is Hazrat Ali RA mentioned in the Qur'aan when refering to Ahl'Bayt!
**
[/quote]

sholay,

(The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.

hazrat muhammad(saw) said that these are the people of my family...he didn't call aisha...u said where in the quran is it stated that ali(as) is in the ahl-e-bait...is this sufficient?!

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

33

Pagluu

Now that I have hit a sore nerve, it was only a matter of time before the reality of intentions from certain individuals came out. I will therefore proceed further.

Firstly, can you please furnish details about Abdul Wahab and what School of Thought he actually followed including when he approached the House of Saud and what reasoning did he state for his actions, in line with A'Hadeeth and Qur'aan. I have noticed a very rigid pattern from pre-dominant Pakistanis calling anyone and everyone a Wahabi at the first 'drop of a hat', without having a clue about the Wahabi movement. I am not a follower of the movement, but sure do know more about Abdul Wahab then you will.

Secondly, Abdulllah Ibn Saba was the founding father of the movement which started this thread and other threads desecrating the Ahl'Bayt on one hand and then swearing undying love on the other hand.
It will be beneficial for all, if his credentials can be disclosed! Otherwise I can do the honours for you.

The fact still remains that the Qur'aan itself testified to the members of the Ahl'Bayt, but you beg to differ and only include 5 members. A family does not become complete, until at least both Husband and Wife are included into the equation, as they are the primary source of the household. I have yet to meet a Shi'ite who includes all the wives and children of the Prophet as Ahl'Bayt.

No mention is made of Ibraheem, Al Qasim, Zaynab, Ruqqayah, Umm Kulthum, or their children Ummamah, Ali, Abyssinia, or the husbands Abul Aas and Uthman. Even Hazrat Ali RA's other three children are left out of the equation, when Ahl'Bayt is mentioned.

Hazrat Ai'shaa RA spent 10 years with the Prophet PBUH, which is nearly half of the period of revelation and Prophethood. But obviously, according to your logic, the Prophet PBUH was wrong in doing so, and furthermore, 10 years was not long enough for the warning of a bad choice to be revealed to the Prophet PBUH.

Ahl'Bayt means ALL the Prophet PBUH family and not just a select few.

Either you accept all the members or none at all. Very simple.

The issue still remains, both parties went to war with each other, and if you state that Hazrat Ai'Shaa RA breached a Qur'aanic ayat by not staying indoors, then Hazrat Ali RA also breached a Qur'aanic ayat by not treating her as a Mother of all Believers and not dealing with her from behind a screen, as implicitly ordered.

Finally my responses are not ignorant, but factual.

If you want to open up another thread dealing with the REAL reason for this thread, than feel free. I will be more than happy to put you in your place.

34

Ahl'e'Sunnah

Can u please quote the exact ayat that you have referred to, concerning the Ahl'Bayt.

35

sholay how hard is to understand simple hadiths...allah(swt) asked for his family, and he(saw) called those four. THE END

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

36

When I ask for the Qur'aanic ayat, I mean Qur'aanic ayat and NOT A'Hadeeth.

The fact is clear. At no time does the Qur'aan mention Hazrat Ali RA, with regards to Ahl'Bayt, but does mention ALL the wives.

Who then carries more superiority concerning Ahl'Bayt.

Maybe Abdullah Ibn Saba can answer this for you!

37

man i seriously doubt your mental abilities now. Bro Ahl-e-Sunnat is refering to Ayat-e-Mubahila.
So you are a follower of Abdul Wahab after all huh? ITs very easy to guess from the way you reacted. Dont know why people get so angry by just getting called his follower. Even shaitaan doesnt like being called “Shaitaan”. End of my argument

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take Care

38

I'LL BREAK DOWN THE OCCURENCES

action:allah(swt) asks the prophet(saw) to bring forth ure family

reaction: prophet(saw) brings ali(as), fatima(as), husain(as), hasan(as) and says, this is my family

yup...i read it again...NO AISHA(RA)

"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

39

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

here is the ayat
Mubahila

Al-Imran 3:61
If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: “Come! let us gather together,-our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves**: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of God on those who lie!”

IS Allah and his rasool and Quran on the wrong here Mr Sholay! Your appraoch is very prejudiced indeed.

40

Assalam Alikum brothers and Sisters. All of us have same holy Quran present at home and everything is there present in the Quran for the truth seeker.
I read the whole thread and in my opinion arguments like this one are not more than a waste of time since there are always guys like Sholay, who seem to be only interested in showing off his biased-knowledge and are not willing to accept anything that comes from anyoneelse.
Behen ramesha is like always very concise in her replies. Other people like ammar, wasir and Shah Jahan seem to have a decent approach too. Good on you guys.

[This message has been edited by Surdar Asif (edited July 06, 2001).]