Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

Reply from dawa-i-dil :Salam ,
Allah will ask from us on the day of judgement that how you offer prayer , namaz , roza , offer zakat , did hajj , helped poor , how you spent your youth , your old age , how you strive to spread islam ,how you fight against kufars , did you jihad against them , "huqooq -ul - ibad " the most
.He will not ask us that , tell me whether you consider my two hands or literally or not and if you give wrong answer , you will go to hell......

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still…

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa-i-dil
Salam ,
Allah will ask from us on the day of judgement that how you offer prayer , namaz , roza , offer zakat , did hajj , helped poor , how you spent your youth , your old age , how you strive to spread islam ,how you fight against kufars , did you jihad against them , "huqooq -ul - ibad " the most
.He will not ask us that , tell me whether you consider my two hands or literally or not and if you give wrong answer , you will go to hell…

Reply from masum2u:
Assalamu 'Alaykum

Dear brother i don’t think you understood a small point. There are going to be 73 sects in this Ummah, of which 1 will go to Jannah, and the rest are destined for the fire of Hell, as we have studied in Aqeeda, there is a Hadith that states that the previous Ummah’s: From the Jews there will be 71 sects of which 70 will go to Hell and 1 to Jannah, From the Christians there will be 72 sects of which 71 will go to Hell and 1 to Jannah, and from our Ummah, i have already mentioned there will be 73 sects and 72 are destined for Hellfire. We are not here to throw Takfir around at Tom **** ‘n’ Harry’s, we are merely trying to say stick to the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’ah, thus we already know these are the 4 Madhabs, including the 'Ashari and Ma’turidi schools.

I am no sheikh, but your brother in Islam. Below is a article written by a scholar, insha’Allah you will benefit a lot of from it:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ahlsunna.htm

Wassalaam


Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawa-i-dil
Yes brother Masum2u , i agree iout of 73 , 1 will go to jannah but when sahabas asked which sect , prophet(peace be upon him) replied" the one who will follow me and my sahabas " so i personally think , people of saudi arabia follow prophet and sahaba then anyone else including me.....

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa-i-dil

Yes brother Masum2u , i agree iout of 73 , 1 will go to jannah but when sahabas asked which sect , prophet(peace be upon him) replied" the one who will follow me and my sahabas " so i personally think , people of saudi arabia follow prophet and sahaba then anyone else including me.....

Reply from Abu umar usman :
The Salaf's never refer to themselves as the 'sala's', but the ones from today do. The wahabi's also have their own interpretations of hadiths, and the Quran, to say that you know which sect will go directly to heaven without any understanding of what 'salafi and wahabi' is based on, including their interpretations of hadiths and the Quran, it just doesn't make sense.

I have a question for you brother, are you suffering from schizophrenia. No disrespect but I have viewed two threads that you started. In these two threads all I see is you replying to yourself, you are basically expressing your opinions in 20 replies, this is the problem with the wahabi's and the salafi's, I like them but I don't buy everything they stand for. You are the same way, you expressed all your feelings, opinions and addressed us on what to accept, but you left no room for any of us to state our opinions just like the salafi's and wahabi's (Excluding some who actually listen but a minority of them). I don't even know where to begin, which opinion of yours should I address, it is just annoying.

If someone tells you that he follows the hadith' and the Quran al-kareem, and than this person addresses you the following that in a hadith it was stated "Dajaal got one eye, and Allah does not", than this person interprets the following that this hadith states that God has two eyes will you call this person strictly the follower of hadiths and the quran? or will you see a lack of judgement based on the fact that it was never stated how many eyes, or any? The point is that you see my friend what I am seeing from the Arab world is the following, less actions more words. While brothers around the world suffer, the Arabs sit and watch (Saudi arabians). This is my own personal opinion and I have had my own share of experiences with some of them. As for following the Hadiths and the Quran, thats what the four madhabs are doing, show me one thing in these four madhabs that contradicts the quran and the hadiths. If you can I will more than happily embrace the wahabi/salafi 's.

Anyways, I am not a teacher I am only a student I am still learning.

I suggest the next time you make a point, give us a point in one post and we will break down each point inshallah!

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from Masum2u :

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa-i-dil

Yes brother Masum2u , i agree iout of 73 , 1 will go to jannah but when sahabas asked which sect , prophet(peace be upon him) replied" the one who will follow me and my sahabas " so i personally think , people of saudi arabia follow prophet and sahaba then anyone else including me.....
Assalamu 'Alaykum

I agree with the part about following our beloved Prophet (PBUH) and also the sahaba, as the Sahaba are shining stars that are our (Khalaf as Sadiqeen) guide. However i cannot agree with you on the issue about the Saudii's following or even treading that path. You see, through reading islamic history one can find that for more than 12 centuries in both of the Haramayn it was the Hanafi way of doing things...salah, sawm...everything...and thanks to Mr Muhammad ibn Abdal Wahhab and even more presviously to other innovators who are beyond my level to refute have caused mass mischief and got the concept out that one does not need to follow a Madhab, and also about Blind-folllowing...and like to stand ''arrogantly'' in salah with their feet-to-feet hand on-chest business, and their bid'a this and shirk that. This is where everything goes wrong..for the past 200 years all we have seen is Wahhabi's taking over Saudi, the whole concept of it...even the people studying at Madinah University come out as confused salafi teachers/preachers...so what can i say brother...one thing i have to still credit is that they have still maintained the praying of 20 Raka'h of Tarawih in the month of ramadan, compared to the salafi view of praying 8.

Wassalaam


Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawa-i-dil :
Salam to all ,
first i sorry brother abu umar that i actually copy psted it , and to many sites so to save time i just do it sequencially , however , i lastly wrote , now my respectful readers accept this or negate this as they like or give thier views , so agian sorry for the long threads..........
Secondly brother i am not salafi but hanafi , alhumdullilah ,and i not agree with you 100% but 200 % that :your sentence"
""""""this is the problem with the wahabi's and the salafi's, I like them but I don't buy everything they stand for"""""""""
brother the purpose i have written this long "mahabarat" is the same you given above , brother in this world not anyone is 100% true , everyone except rasools and nabis .Are Abdul wahab or the aalim of the wahabi site(islam-qa) are 100% correct , no at all.No human being can be 100% right , if he is , the he has to be a rasool or nabi .The point is , why we keep on insisting that a person should even be 100% right or 100% wrong !!!!!!!!!!!! Every human being , by its nature , have a tendecy of sin , faults and mistakes whether sahabas , tabai or aulias of Allah ,and they fell prey to them then why not abdul wahab or any other wahabi aalimis !!!!!!!!! why not shiekh abdul qadir jilani and others ,why not abu hanifa and imam shafi etc etc.

Brother , difference dosen't matter , is their no difference between imam shafi , ahmed bin hanbal , abu hanifa or malik.Did they ever fight on that or even said a harsh words to each other!!!!!!!!!!Difference is the essence of society , witout a difference , is a reasonable society cannot alive.....

Thidly , i never said that 4 madhabs are wrong as brother masum said , all are 100% correct but a way of looking at a thing is different so thats why i given a post from(islam-qa) that they respect all and never said that do not follow anyone , follow anyone but not blindly as imam abu hanifa himself said this to throw against a wall.... the differnce is only to 4 imams and imam bukarhi , the hadees reached from which sahabi and which degree of shaheeh is this .... so 4 imams are right and salafis are also for imam bukhari have a very tough merit for shaeeh hadees while others not as given by (islam-qa) post above , so this is the only difference which i do not call difference at all..

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawa-i-dil :

regarding brelvi muslims, which i think brother masum is , views about salafi or we sunnis , i have a short debate on (***********) and then no reply to me , i gave it for convenience of readers , the thread was exactly same as above :

Sunni Soldier Of Islam
Senior Member

Posts: 1565
Joined: 11/18/2005

Aslama o alaykhum.

Umar bahi simle answer....the world is not in WAHABI PHOBIA, but it is under Wahabi terrorism

Brealeavis and Deobandis i have never heard them fighting but YES they hold debates to exchange views ad show who is on HAQ....

Deobandis/Wahabis and Shia have history of killing where ALHUMDULLILAH BREALEAVIS do not have histroy of killing but history of Its ULEMAS being SHAHEED and still pracitcing SABAR so please umar bahi dont say STUPIDITIES as i find it offensive i hope you dont mind.

ALLAH HAFFIZ

another reply:

Muhammad Mobasher Muhammadi
Senior Member

Posts: 2288
Joined: 10/20/2005
Brother Muhammad Umar, THIS is what exactly people come up with when they have no knowledge about Islam and fortunately Allah Azzawajal Has Blessed some with the knowledge to differentiate between right an wrong. The discussion is a layman conversation with all due respect.

The article in the forum is also pasted from a Najdi website who at first appreciated Ghous-ul-Azam and then came to what they do best, he says:

''Shaykh 'Abd al-Qaadir agreed with Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah - the followers of truth - concerning all issues of 'aqeedah (belief), namely Tawheed, faith, Prophethood, and the Last Day.

There are some minor mistakes and errors in his books, and some innovations which are relatively insignificant when compared with his achievements. ''

Later, he starts praising Najdi Al Maloun and quotes him:

''Iforbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and from associating them with Allaah in any act of worship that should be done for Allaah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one's trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allaah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent. This is the Message which was proclaimed by all the Messengers, from the first of them to the last of them, and this is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah.''

The highlighted part is enough for us to identify the so-called scholar.

Najdi Al-Maloun also says:

''I hold a high position in my village and people listen to me. Some of the leaders denounced that because it goes against the customs they grew up with.''

The first sentence is the only reason people listened to him and the second sentence is a blind shot which appeared to him like a bulls-eye.

The so-called debate is NOT RECOMMENDED because it makes no sense at all.

Jazak Allah

and the last one was :
suhail raza
Senior Member

Posts: 393
Joined: 10/08/2006

Mashallah Brother tripple M . you have rightly justified the answer with your to the point quotations. If brother Umar feels that this is all stupidity then he should take a closer look at his Imaan and rectify himself.

then it was my turn so i replied :

Slam to all ,
First i am sorry that the it was painful to use the word" stupidies" to the first replier , actually i use in the sense of differences not blaming any sect I myself sunni and hanafi, alhumdullilah , how can i critisize my own school of thought .Secondly to the respectful MMM, brother , it is our imaan that only "prophets" are " masooms" , anyone else whether sahaba , tabai , taba tabi , wali , aulia , pious people and imams of shias are not "masoom".It is our belief.No doubt about that shiek abdul qadir jilani is the "imam" of aulias , the greatest of all walis and get highest in"taqwa" and "piety" but brother he was not " masoom" so there are chances of mistakes and sins , as nature of a human being.So it is strange to me that how we react
so much on this point !
Thirdly it is a point of common sense that a " shaheed" died once but in grave he remains alive as in Quran, similarly , prophet(peace be upon him) also died as when hazrat abu bakr(ra) said this to umar(ra) when taking his sword in his hand , he was shouting that " whoever will say Muhammad(ppeace be upon him) died , i will kill him" , then abu bakr(ra) replied that " whoever worship Muhammad(peace be upon him) , he should recognize that he has died , and who worship Allah , he should recognize that Allah will never lick the taste of death" but after that he is alive , see if shaeed can be alive , a prophet cannot be !!!!!!!!!!!! As far prophet is thousands of time higher than a shaheed and prophet like Muhammad(peace be upon him) , the " sardar" of all prophets !!!!!!!!!.So brother , point is that we should be too too touchy or allergic about that.They have Quranic verse that every creature has to die and this is true , afterwards what happens , it is ALLAh "qudrat" to whome He gives life like shaheed or prophets or aulia or anyone else , this is His right and kingdom, we have not to worry about it.Thirdly i want to say that Allah will ask from us on the day of judgement that how you offer prayer , namaz , roza , offer zakat , did hajj , helped poor , how you spent your youth , your old age , how you strive to spread islam ,how you fight against kufars , did you jihad against them , "huqooq -ul - ibad " the most .He will not ask us that , tell me whether you consider my prophet(peace be upon him) dead or alive and if you will not give the correct answer , i will put you to hell .Or neiher He will ask us whether Prophet(peace be upon him ) is noor or bashar , and giving wrong answer will lead you to hell, so brother , be calm and cool , these are minor thing , and insshallah they will not do any harm to our belief that " Allah is one and only , we worship him alone and Muhammad(peace be upon him) his last messenger and rasool" , This was what only taught by our beloved prophet(peace be upon him) and this is what only is asked on day of judgement.Inshallah.But we will use our whole of life on fighting on these worthless issues and drain our whole energies in this useless debate , not considering that poverty will lead to kufar as in hadees ,not consiering that a time will come when all other nations will fell upon you as some hungry fell on the meal as in hadees , but instead of fighting agaist these social , economical , socialogical,political and unity factors which our society in particular and muslim ummad in general are facing , we keep on fighting and dividing ourselves more and more.......................

And last thing brother are Abdul wahab or the aalim of the wahabi site(islam-qa) are 100% correct , no at all.No human being can be 100% right , if he is , the he has to be a rasool or nabi .The point is , why we keep on insistingthet a person should even be 100% right or 100% wrong !!!!!!!!!!!! Every human being , by its nature , have a tendecy of sin , faults and mistakes whether sahabas , tabai or aulias of Allah ,and they fell prey to them then why not abdul wahab or any other wahabi aalimis !!!!!!!!! why not shiekh abdul qadir jilani and others ,why not abu hanifa and imam shafi etc etc.

Brother , difference dosen't matter , is their no difference between imam shafi , ahmed bin hanbal , abu hanifa or malik.Did they ever fight on that or even said a harsh words to each other!!!!!!!!!!Difference is the essence of society , witout a difference , is a reasonable society can alive , if this happens , then this is a dum , deaf and blind society .Difference opens new paths and new ways of thinking as in hadees is diffeence of my ummah is "rahmat" but unfortunately we have made it"zahmat" by our own deeds and thinkings...................

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still…

reply from Masum2u :
Assalamu 'Alaykum

Brother, all i see you do is call yourself a Hanafi and then go around backing up Salafi deviants. If you well and truly knew the problems they have caused and are still causing you will shut up for once and for all. You are very much wrong in calling me a Barelvi, i am in no way a Barelvi and have my opinions regarding some of the stuff they do. I would call myself a Hanafi Ma’turidi, who takes knowledge from the Deobandi and Barelvi Scholars in certain fields.

You do not seem to understand the situation here, once again i will have to repeat myself in saying the 4 Imams may hae had differences in Fiqh, but when it came to Aqeeda they were all unanimous!! The problem we have with salafi’s is Aqeeda…this is the biggest problem. They hold a corrupt and Batil Aqeeda ‘‘Aqeedat-il-Wasitiyyah’’, which was done by a famous personality Ibn Taymiyah, thus this was refuted by many scholars in their thousands and it will still be refuted till the day of Judgement! For it gives literal meaning to Allah’s being, in giving Allah(swt) a ‘‘Form’’, a literal '‘Hand’. ‘‘Eyes’’, ‘‘Shin’’, ‘‘Face’’, ‘‘Directions’’ and also ‘‘Settled on the throne’’, which are all the attributes of Allah’s creation!!! How can Allah have similar attribute as is creation? Have we not learnt that ‘‘There is none like Him’’ ???

Again, we have another problem with these Salafi deviants when it comes to Taqlid. They say ‘You don’t have to follow a Madhab’', which is a big problem. May scholars have made it Wajib to follow a Madhab, the one who doesnt follow a Madhab can be called, a person who is following his/her desires, an innovator (Mubta’di). Please read Mufti Taqi Usmani’s ‘‘The Legal Status of Following a Madhab’’ - Ciick here to read the full book.

Also read Shaykh Murabit al Hajj’s article regarding a Non-Madhabi: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/mhfatwa.htm

One more problem we have with them is the saying of ‘‘Qur’an and Sunnah’’, they sa this and then go and learn their deen under Tom **** & Harry’s who hold no Ijaza to transmit a certain sacred work, such as Fiqh, Aqeeda, Tafsir and Hadith!! They learn from people like Nasruddin al Al Bani, who is considered by the Salagis a great scholar of Hadith…whereas this same individual without holding any Ijaza to even transmit Hadith, made more than 1200 mistakes…unforgiveale ones that can make one a Deviant, Please read this book to understand where al Al Bani sahib has made these mistakes in calling Sahih Hadth to his own opinion a Da’if Hadith!!!

By the way, please note that if a person does not accept a Mutawatir Hadith, he/she is a unbeliever, according to Shaykhul Islam Ibn Hajar al Asqalani, as mentioned in his fanous "usul al Hadith work ‘‘Nukhbat al-fikar’’ .

Hope this benefits,

Wassalaam


Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from HishamRehman :

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa-i-dil

If 95% of our population do not say prayer (even in home , not to ask about a mosque) , then this is not a matter of any consideration....................!!!!!!!!!!!!

the real matter is """" if you do rafa yadain """"" or """aameen billjahar""""
or not...............

or """"where you put your hands on chest or little below"""""""""""

you see , these are the """"real matters""" but we keep ourself busy in other"" minor matters""

Agreed, but just say what you said in a less sarcastic tone

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawa-i-dil :
Quote:
Originally Posted by hishamrahmans

Agreed, but just say what you said in a less sarcastic tone.
Only that a person making hands at chest have no right to say anything to a person making hands a little below , similarly , a person making hands at belly has no right o say anything to a person which tie hands at chest etc etc....
Both have hadees in support although degree of shaheeh is different so these little things dose not matter , the thing that matters is this prayer abstain you from "munkir" and" fawahish" or not..................

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawai dil :Salam to all,
First i thank brother Masum for his reply and his so vast knowledge , brother beleive me , i am not a few percent of your vast knowledge , i have a little interest in history but in fiqah and other religious things , i have a very little knowledge but brother one thinng i must say that regarding Allah giving literal meaning , brother for God sake , Allah will not ask me on day of judgement whether I have literally 2 hands , eyes or not !!!, i mean this thing is worthless to be consider but we keep our whole life in that .I once heard from my teacher regarding"Allah's throne" that it is an ayat " Mutashabiaa't" , so if we try to analyze it deeply, we will be in "fitna" ,So we have not hundreds but thousandsof common things and few controversial but our focus is always on these "few".......................
Brother regring Taqeed , i once again will say they never said that do not follow anyone but they say not blindly as i given in the above post from(islam-qa) site .....4 imams also follow quran and sunnah , so it is illogical to say that follow 4 imams or follow quran and sunnah are two differents things !!!!!!!!!.As i ask you are you muslim or Pakistani !!!!!!!!!
So these are incompatible things ................
Thirdly brother i agree with you 100% allama albani has regected a few hadees but brother again came the problem of point of view and merit , these hadees are not on his merit of shaheeh so he regected them as Imam Bukhari knew about 600,000 hadees and stated that i know more than 100,000 "shaeeh" hadees but quoted only 2513 in his book , why? because of his own merit ...... So if he rejected some his hadees so it was his merit , i do not think there is any objectionable thing about that......

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from dawa-i-dil :
For them is their merit ,for us is our merit.....no problem but yes this is wrong if hadees quoted by a number of muhadiseen and generally consider as shaheeh , then a person not considering For thier it shaeeh is his personal opinion but he has no right to blame and taunt anyone that consider it shaeeh and i do agree that salafis are a bit staunch towards it ... i agree with you , they have no right to " command" anyone else , if they have a certain opinion about specifichadees , then Ok fine , but do not let other to follow you .............

But Brother , once again , let me allow to jump into pool of history..... Brother , Arabs, by nature, have a "superiority complex" , Remember , they called 1400 years back , non-arabs as " agmi" means"goonga" or a person who cannot speak , they have a pride of thier arabic poetry lik "Amraul qais" etc and they do not consider other as "worthy" as they consider all themselves .you see , most of hadees and fiqah of 1400 years , mostly done by non-arabs like in basra , kufa , naishapur , baghdad , ljilan , khurasan etc etc ...So theur "pride" is not as much true.Just 30 40 years back, there is "fever" of arab nationalism like "jamal abdl nasir" of "egypt" , hafizul asad " , sadam hussein etc but it also not worked as in islam there is no such thing ,So brother it is thier "bones and blood" for thousands of years of being superior , so take it as thier "Nature" and just forget it......You can change the habbits but not the nature , for centuries of desert-living and tribal backgroud , they are very touchy about minor things, before islam , fight of 100's of years of drinking water earlier or winning a horse-race etc etc..So Just forget about it what they say something "staunch" about something .......
""""""""Waisay bhi yaar, arbon ka khoon thora garam hi hota hai !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kiya khayal hai ??

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from Abdul Qahhar :Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa-i-dil

why the whole world is in wahabi phobia ?????
will we keep on fighting on issues like deobandi , brelvi and such stupidities?????

if a man who truly follows a quran and ahadees we call him a wahabi.???I am myself a "sunni from hanafi school of thought" but i think personally , wahabi are more islamic than any other sect because they strictly follow quran and ahadees.But they follow mostly Bukhari and Muslim shareef , a 100% true texts of hadees and we all also consider ahadees which are not 100% shaheeh say 70 or 80% saheeh .In examinations you even pass of 33% or 40% so this is the only difference but "yaar log to rai ka pahar bana daitay hain".so plz. go on these minor issuses of " rafa yadain" and " ameen biljahar" , there are ahadees in their favour and not in their favour.But the degree of shaheeh is different.So in my opinion , all are correct , as far as your intention is , to follow the sunnah of prophet(peace be upon him).With this in mind , in my humble opinion , Allah will definitely reward you.Inshallah.
Wallahi, my brother, I pray to Allahu Te'ala to give you Firdaws. Ameen.
And I love you in the name of Allah and for the love of Allah.
And I agree with what you say, loud tone or silent tone.
And I don't mean this particular post, but the whole thread, especially that part on the things we don't do, but we should. Jazakallahu Jannah.

PS I edited the quote above cos there was an obvious misunderstanding with what I agree with brother dawa-i-dil.

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from Dawood :
Istaghfirullah. for insulting the Arabs?

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from Abdul qahhar :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawood82

Istaghfirullah. for insulting the Arabs?

No, of course not. For pointing out some good things, like in general - we're all (all as in general many of us) occupied with things like where are brothers having their hands when praying, etc. while maybe our own neighbours are dying from hunger and so on.

PS BTW, since when do you know my intention? I thought this is ghaib? Of course it is. So if my intention was never to support insulting arabs, then uve completely misinterpreted me.

I'll give you an example regarding this "insult" thing - not from Saudi - but from Bosnia, where many Muslims live and also those who only call themselves Muslims.
See, some of them are so occupied with "where do brothers have their hands in rukuu", but at the same time they never pray?!?!?!?!? Not fajr, not dhuhr, etc.

How come????
Or some that do pray would try to kick you out of the masjeed, if you don't want to participate in "congregational zhikr", and we all know, this is an invention in Islam.
Or they would try to kiock you out if maybe your beard "is too long?".

Or if somebody would want to marry his cousin - nooooo, it's NOT allowed they say! So, they say HARAM, but Allah said HALAL?!?!? BTW, of course, this cousin is a Muslim woman. And when u say to them, give me some proof, then can't produce one, they can only repeat what people have been talking for centuries probably. But when I point to the Qur'an and show them the proof, they don't wana see it or understand it.

If you're interested, I'll give u - on request - dozens of similar examples.
Just say so - I'll do my best to explain how some people are ignorant - but that's no problem, cos I myself am ignorant in many things and areas, but there's a difference if one wants to learn or if one wants to stay ignorant and arrogant at the same time.

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from abdul qahhar :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawood82

Again, you quoted that post about (slur against) Arab in your statement. I am not putting words in your mouth, please see the Question mark. A simple, "No, it was about something else" would suffice.

I found it lacking adab, maybe others don't share that view.

Rasulullah Salallahu aleyhi wa sallam being an Arab is enough of a reason not to slander them.

If one respects the Resulullah saws, it does not mean that the whole Arab nation is like Resulullah saws, does it? I wasn't slandering Arab nation. U might wana prove that I did, u can try to prove that, but if u don't prove it, then u are unjust to me.
Allahu 'Alem.

Debate closed from my side for you obviously are pushing me using unjust arguments.


فَإِن

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from Masum2u :
First i thank brother Masum for his reply and his so vast knowledge , brother beleive me , i am not a few percent of your vast knowledge ,

reply:
Astaghfirullah akhi, you may posess far more knowledge than me. This discssion is purely for the sake of learning 'ilm. You may teach me something and i may teach you something in return.

one thinng i must say that regarding Allah giving literal meaning , brother for God sake , Allah will not ask me on day of judgement whether I have literally 2 hands , eyes or not !!!, i mean this thing is worthless to be consider but we keep our whole life in that

reply:
I take, you did not read the artcles/book i provided for you to read. Please read them inshaAllah, you will greatly benefit a lot from them, if you don't understand something from them, just ask me, and if i don't understand i will ask a scholar.

If we are not taught the right Aqeeda, akhi we are headed fro the fire of Hell!!

I once heard from my teacher regarding"Allah's throne" that it is an ayat " Mutashabiaa't" , so if we try to analyze it deeply, we will be in "fitna"

reply:
I would absolutely agree on that. Thats exactly what is happeining now. Fitna is being caused y the innovators and deviants such as the Qadiyani's, Shi'a and more sadly the Salafi's. Research more brother, the Salafi's are not your innocent brothers/sisters in Islam, they are the cause of many Fitna that exist in our society today. They have tampered so many with our old classical works, giving verdict on Ahadith without any Ijaza (Certification). These are people such as al Al Bani, Bin Baaz and Ibn Uthaymen, Ibn Fawzan and other people who we are instructed to avoid.

Thirdly brother i agree with you 100% allama albani has regected a few hadees

reply:
Brother al Al Bani Sahaib was not a Allama or a Shaykh, or a Muhaddith, or a Mawlana....full stop.

i know more than 100,000 "shaeeh" hadees but quoted only 2513 in his book

reply:
Imam Bukhari in his 'Jami' us Sahih'' compiled 7275 Hadith - Source Fathul Mugith & Muqaddama Ibn-us Salah.

.....4 imams also follow quran and sunnah , so it is illogical to say that follow 4 imams or follow quran and sunnah are two differents things !!!!!!!!!.As i ask you are you muslim or Pakistani !!!!!!!!!

reply:
Brother please do NOT compare these salafi's to our 4 Imams. The 4 imams are from the early Islamic century, these modern-day so-called scholars are nothing compared to those high scholars. We follow a Imam from the either 4 and see their lineage of Knowledge. If you are learning Fiqh under a traditional scholar, then you should not get confused brother....coz i still don't think you got it correct about follwoing the Qur'an and Sunnah. The Hanafi's are unique compared to the other 3 Madhabs, because it has an Archive sent down from 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (Radiyallhu Anhu) to Alqama (Rahimahullah) to Ibrahim an Nakha'i (Rahimahullah) to Hammad (rahimahullah) and then to Imam Abu Hanifa (Rahimahullah)...this is what you call Fish where legal rulings were all put in an archive and sent down through the generations....thus this is what you call following the Qur'an and the Sunnah, knowing where Ahadith are abrogated and also conditions that apply to certain aspects of the Deen.

Anyway brother, i have no more to say, one thing i would reccomend to you is learn further. You are giving up on Salafi's too easily...its not easy as it seems, they have caused a lot of havoc within the centuries and are still doing so till this day. We as the Sunni's do not consider the Salafi's to be within the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah or even the saved sect...we believe they have innovated and also deviated fro, the Staright path due to their own desires or following their dodgy scholars, and also doing Taqleed on wrong people of knowledge.

Wassalaam

Re: Oh God , we have wasted 1400 years and still.....

reply from salafi :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-Umar-Usman-Ali

The Salaf's never refer to themselves as the 'sala's', but the ones from today do.

reply :
assalamo alaikum

sorry its reply to an old post but i m new and was going thru this 1.

at this moment i dont know exactly when did salafi word 1st used but surely salaf ,when they were living, could not call themselves 'salafi'.

Al Hafidh Adh Dhahabi mentioned Daraqutni and said: " he never egaged in kalaam, rather he was salafi".(dont exactly know his work where he said it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-Umar-Usman-Ali

You are the same way, you expressed all your feelings, opinions and addressed us on what to accept, but you left no room for any of us to state our opinions just like the salafi's and wahabi's (Excluding some who actually listen but a minority of them).

reply:
form Shaykh Shuhaib Hasan quoting Shaykh Al Albani - "The Ummah is in need of the proper aqeedah, and the salafis are in need of the proper akhlaaq" or "The ummah has a'qeedah problems, and the salafi's have akhlaaq problems."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-Umar-Usman-Ali

The point is that you see my friend what I am seeing from the Arab world is the following, less actions more words. While brothers around the world suffer, the Arabs sit and watch (Saudi arabians). This is my own personal opinion and I have had my own share of experiences with some of them.

reply :
true for the governments but not for every salafi/saudi.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-Umar-Usman-Ali

As for following the Hadiths and the Quran, thats what the four madhabs are doing, show me one thing in these four madhabs that contradicts the quran and the hadiths. If you can I will more than happily embrace the wahabi/salafi 's.

reply:
in the last two rakahs if the imam or a sigular man does not recite srah fatiha and keep quite or just subhanAllah, there is no problem. (hanafi opinion based on the weak ahadeeth and leaving a sahih one,se hadaya and nasb-ur-raya),

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu-Umar-Usman-Ali

Anyways, I am not a teacher I am only a student I am still learning.

I suggest the next time you make a point, give us a point in one post and we will break down each point inshallah!

reply:
good idea take care of it dawa-i-dil brother.

wassalam