Obligation of Hijab

[psyah]

OK so then it's obvious that Muslim women are NOT obliged to cover their hair (so called Hijab). Allah is asking women to have shame and basically be modest. There's no mention of covering hair or such in the Quran, so who turned this into an obligation?

So how's taking hijab different than keeping beard? Shouldn't they both be Sunnah since neither is mentioned in Quran?

Peace Miss_Noland

Please note and from my previous post ... hijab is not a headscarf and hijab is not mentioned ... however khimar is a headscarf and this is mentioned in the Qur'an.

So correctly speaking the Qur'an does contain the mandate for covering the head. How much of the head should be covered is detailed in hadith - hairline for women.

[psyah]

The only time men are told not to cut their hair in the Quran is during the Hajj Pilgrimage, and that is it. Those who claim it is required in order to be a muslim are fabricating lies and attributing them to GOD. A practice strongly condemned in the Quran. Of course, those who uphold the lies think otherwise.

Peace

submitmj according to your logic and how you have been so far ... it must mean that because you must not cut hair during Hajj then at all other times you must cut hair ... therefore you should be grade 0 most of the time. Is that the case?

Are all who follow your way hairless like you then?

[Miss_Noland]

Peace Miss_Noland

Please note and from my previous post ... hijab is not a headscarf and hijab is not mentioned ... however khimar is a headscarf and this is mentioned in the Qur'an.

So correctly speaking the Qur'an does contain the mandate for covering the head. How much of the head should be covered is detailed in hadith - hairline for women.

Khimar is not a headscarf. It means something that covers, doesn't it? No where does Quran explicitly ask women to take Khimar over their "head." The Quran enjoins women to take Khimar over their bossoms. It no where mentions "head." Having looked at various interpretations of the word Khimar, it's my understanding that Khimar was a piece of cloth (more like a tunic with a hoody) which was open in the front and was somewhat a fashion trend in the pre-islamic times. Thus, Quran explicitly asks women to cover the front [instead of worrying about their head].

[psyah]

Khimar is not a headscarf. It means something that covers, doesn't it? No where does Quran explicitly ask women to take Khimar over their "head." The Quran enjoins women to take Khimar over their bossoms. It no where mentions "head." Having looked at various interpretations of the word Khimar, it's my understanding that Khimar was a piece of cloth (more like a tunic with a hoody) which was open in the front and was somewhat a fashion trend in the pre-islamic times. Thus, Quran explicitly asks women to cover the front [instead of worrying about their head].

Peace Miss_Noland

Khimar is the name of the headscarf. But like all Arabic words each noun has a functional meaning. The functional meaning of khimar is to cover however it does not change the fact that khimar has always been meant as a headscarf. The headscarves were not a fashion trend so much as a form of "protection" from the sun in the hot climates of Arabia.

The intent of the ayaat is to wear the headscarf (khimar) in such a way that it also covers the bosoms. The use of the word Hijab was always the wrong term to use. Khimar can be worn without observing hijab, however the reverse is not necessarily true. Physical covering ensures so much protection and the way a woman conducts herself ensures there is another level of protection. The intent of hijab therefore is "protection" not oppression.

To do away with hijab is doing away with ones protection and that cannot be a sensible thing.

The way the Qur'an works is that if there is something already being done then it usually stays silent on that issue, it really only emphasises where it is necessary to do so. Since women were already covering their heads but not their bosoms the efficiency of the Divine language stated the non-complinace rather than reiterating the compliance.

This can be seen also in hadith as I stated clarification has been detailed therein. To assume that our opinions are better than scholars or the prophet (SAW) himself is to appoint ourselves as greater than them and we are also implicitly questionning their ability or sincerity which can bear on our state of iman.

However, in very rare cases women have been instructed in certain times of Islamic history to remove their scarves from their heads and the conditions for this was when certain societies that were taken over by Muslims had women who used to walk around bare breasted to balance the situation Muslim women were instructed to remove their headscarves until the society reached a balance.

To be drawn to the breast is greater than that to hair which in turn is greater than the face and in turn other iterations like niqaab. Niqaab hence was only really appropriate for societies that had a level of maturity in most western societies today the headscarf is sufficient and accepted. I agree in some areas even the headscarf may be too much in which case provided a mufti has given a fatwa then this can be done without accountability.

[submitmj]

submitmj according to your logic and how you have been so far ... it must mean that because you must not cut hair during Hajj then at all other times you must cut hair ... therefore you should be grade 0 most of the time. Is that the case?

Are all who follow your way hairless like you then?

.

What is wrong with your logic? I was explaining to Miss Nolan that not cutting the hair, shaving etc. are only mentioned in the Quran in regards to Hajj. Outside of Hajj, if you chose to or do not chose to cut your hair of shave your face is entirely your choice. However, if you want to make religious rules outside of the Quran, than you are making innovations, and only the wicked do that.

Bye the way, I have a full head of hair by GOD's grace.

Peace

[submitmj]

@psyah

Peace Miss_Noland

Khimar is the name of the headscarf. But like all Arabic words each noun has a functional meaning. The functional meaning of khimar is to cover however it does not change the fact that khimar has always been meant as a headscarf. The headscarves were not a fashion trend so much as a form of “protection” from the sun in the hot climates of Arabia.

The intent of the ayaat is to wear the headscarf (khimar) in such a way that it also covers the bosoms. The use of the word Hijab was always the wrong term to use. Khimar can be worn without observing hijab, however the reverse is not necessarily true. Physical covering ensures so much protection and the way a woman conducts herself ensures there is another level of protection. The intent of hijab therefore is “protection” not oppression.

To do away with hijab is doing away with ones protection and that cannot be a sensible thing.

The way the Qur’an works is that if there is something already being done then it usually stays silent on that issue, it really only emphasises where it is necessary to do so. Since women were already covering their heads but not their bosoms the efficiency of the Divine language stated the non-complinace rather than reiterating the compliance.

This can be seen also in hadith as I stated clarification has been detailed therein. To assume that our opinions are better than scholars or the prophet (SAW) himself is to appoint ourselves as greater than them and we are also implicitly questionning their ability or sincerity which can bear on our state of iman.

However, in very rare cases women have been instructed in certain times of Islamic history to remove their scarves from their heads and the conditions for this was when certain societies that were taken over by Muslims had women who used to walk around bare breasted to balance the situation Muslim women were instructed to remove their headscarves until the society reached a balance.

To be drawn to the breast is greater than that to hair which in turn is greater than the face and in turn other iterations like niqaab. Niqaab hence was only really appropriate for societies that had a level of maturity in most western societies today the headscarf is sufficient and accepted. I agree in some areas even the headscarf may be too much in which case provided a mufti has given a fatwa then this can be done without accountability.

Miss Nolan. Look how this guy looks for ways to abrogate what the Quran says. They use all kinds of eloquence arguments. Anything, to justify holding onto hadiths INSTEAD of Quran, and when they have no argument, they resort to saying ‘we cannot put our opinions above the scholars’. Ironically, GOD says in the Quran that we are NOT take turn our scholars into lords, yet they insist on doing so.

If people truly believe in GOD, they will take HIS words over any human. Especially, if GOD proves the Quran is from HIM (which HE has). GOD explains (in Quran) why people (majority of muslims) accept fancy words and fabrications like Hadith & Sunnah.

 *Hadith & Sunnah condemned*[Quran 6:112] We have permitted the  enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - **to inspire in each  other fancy words, in order to deceive**. Had your Lord willed, they would  not have done it. **You shall disregard them and their fabrications. **

[6:113] This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications,**and accept them, and thus expose their real **

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:115] *The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. **He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. ](Chapter 6, Livestock (Al-An ‘ãm) Footnotes)
[6:116] **If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. **

[midnighteyes]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

For all those "submitters" who reject the validity of the hadith

Do you believe that the Quran is a timeless, universal message, for all people, in all times, in all places

If yes, then how are we to understand the verses that tell us to follow and obey the Messenger, peace be upon him

Without hadith, that is obviously NOT possible for us in this time and place, when we no longer have the Messenger, peace be upon him, living with us. So according to your logic, the message of the Quran was only for the people living over 1,400 years ago????

[midnighteyes]

[QUOTE]
Khimar is not a headscarf. It means something that covers, doesn't it? No where does Quran explicitly ask women to take Khimar over their "head." The Quran enjoins women to take Khimar over their bossoms. It no where mentions "head."
[/QUOTE]

Words usually have a linguistical meaning and a technical meaning, which is the common usage of the word

The linguistic meaning of khimar is to cover yes, but the technical meaning is used to mean a HEADcover. Yes the Quran does not explicitly say to draw the khimar over your head, rather it says to draw it down over your chest. But given that it is a HEADcover, obviously it must be worn on the HEAD. Someone who understand the usage of the word would understand what the intended meaning of the command is, to cover both the head and the chest, not just the chest

Its as if you were to tell me, pull your socks up to cover your ankles. And I reply, well you want me to cover my ankles, but you didnt mention anything about my feet, so you must mean to forget about the feet and just make sure my ankles are covered. Someone who is familiar with the meaning and usage of socks will naturally understand thats the primary purpose of socks is to cover the feet, and you are adding something extra, to also make sure the ankles are covered

Islam is very clear and simple and its rulings are very clear and simple for those who come with an open mind and a sincere desire for the truth. For those who want to argue and prove their own points, its easy to take the simplest concepts and twist them in a hundred ways to make them seem as if some alternative meaning is suggested

[submitmj]

@midnighteyes

For all those "submitters" who reject the validity of the hadith

Do you believe that the Quran is a timeless, universal message, for all people, in all times, in all places

If yes, then how are we to understand the verses that tell us to follow and obey the Messenger, peace be upon him

Without hadith, that is obviously NOT possible for us in this time and place, when we no longer have the Messenger, peace be upon him, living with us. So according to your logic, the message of the Quran was only for the people living over 1,400 years ago????

Of course I believe the Quran is timeless. That is why I follow it. However, I do not believe Hadith & Sunnah are from GOD, but rather from 'unauthorized' men (Bukhari, Hanbal, Ahmed, etc.).

What came from Prophet Muhammad's mouth?... The Quran.
When the prophet died, what was in existence to followed?...... The Quran.
What did the Prophet have to follow?........The Quran.
What came from Bukhari?....Hadith & Sunnah rumors/lies collected 200+ years after the Prophet died.

Therefore, Hadith & Sunnah ARE NOT from the prophet. They are rumors collected by Bukhari who is definitely not a messenger. Therefore, obeying the Prophet is obeying the Quran he was given FROM GOD. Obeying hadith & Sunnah is obeying BUKHARI, which was given to him from satan. The bottom line is if you are devoted to ONLY GOD, and believe in the Hereafter, you will obey GOD's proven words (Quran). If you are devoted to the Prophet (instead of GOD), and DO NOT believe in the Hereafter, you will obey these fabricated hadith & Sunnah that is 'claimed' to be from the prophet because he is more important to you than GOD. As well, it means you do not believe in Hereafter as clearly stated in the 'clear' verses in the Quran below.[Quran 3:78] Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, *that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from GOD, when it is not from GOD. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to GOD, knowingly. *

[3:79] NEVER would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.

[3:80] Nor would he command you to idolize the angels and the prophets as lords. *Would he exhort you to disbelieve after becoming Muslims (Submitters)? *

So, the question is do you believe GOD, your Creator, your Lord, your Master.... or not? If you do not, than you are saying that GOD does not know how to communicate to HIS creations. What a blasphemy to even think GOD needs humans for anything.

[Fbi786]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

at most of the replies ..

I cant beleive that Muslims even ask such questions for one especially when there is ‘behtari’ in a certain thing / action. and secondly .. this is what muslims have turned islam into . a debate ..

[cricketplaya]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

oye submitter you ignored my post completely. means you have no answer or your're still looking? why you guys translate God's book in so many ways, why not stick to one??

[tinker85]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

For all those who is twisting what Quran says! Learn Classical Arabic language then u will come to know wat exactly Quran is saying.

Khimar word has come in Surah nur ayah 31
Before the revelation of ayahs on veiling...Women in those days used to cover their heads using Khimar,throwing its end on their back,behind their ears leaving the neck and the upper part of the chest uncovered,just as christians used to do!. Covering of head has always been a part of every religion by Allah. Many scriptures of bible and torahs also orders the same to do!.

And for all those who is in denial of hadiths n sunnah? I have a question ... Do you ppl pray 5 times a days?. just wonderding...if yes then how?.

[psyah]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

Miss_Noland

I've realised that this thread is pointless before one grasps the concept of God. Reach out to 'feel' His Presence and that will build your relationship with your Lord.

We need to learn how to trust God, then trust his messenger, and then trust the narrators and then trust the guidance we get.

[asma786]

Re: Obligation of Hijab

a sunnah is anything the prophet did or said .a hadith is the exact words that were said by our beloved nabi and were recorded and these were only by authentic people e.g hazrat aisha.
please note that in our discussions such things are said by those who have a negative view thatwill cause us to loose our iman without us realising it that is why the kalimah should be recited all the time.

[submitmj]

@tinker85

For all those who is twisting what Quran says! Learn Classical Arabic language then u will come to know wat exactly Quran is saying.

Khimar word has come in Surah nur ayah 31
Before the revelation of ayahs on veiling…Women in those days used to cover their heads using Khimar,throwing its end on their back,behind their ears leaving the neck and the upper part of the chest uncovered,just as christians used to do!. Covering of head has always been a part of every religion by Allah. Many scriptures of bible and torahs also orders the same to do!.

And for all those who is in denial of hadiths n sunnah? I have a question … Do you ppl pray 5 times a days?. just wonderding…if yes then how?.

Of course, I pray 5 times a day. GOD revealed a miracle through one of His messengers in 1974 as per 3:81, 33:7, and 98:2-5. His duty was to purge all religious innovations and restore Islam to it’s original state, and that is exactly what he did. Go verify the math miracle for yourself, and come back to GOD. Submit to your Lord alone, and stop setting up prophet Muhammad as an idol beside GOD before the advent of a terrible day (judgment day).

Sign in - Google Accounts

peace

[cricketplaya]

@submitmj

Of course, I pray 5 times a day. GOD revealed a miracle through one of His messengers in 1974 as per 3:81, 33:7, and 98:2-5. His duty was to purge all religious innovations and restore Islam to it’s original state, and that is exactly what he did. Go verify the math miracle for yourself, and come back to GOD. Submit to your Lord alone, and stop setting up prophet Muhammad as an idol beside GOD before the advent of a terrible day (judgment day).

https://sites.google.com/site/evidenceofgod/

peace

SUBMITMJ, I invite you to accept Islam. Accept Muhammad (saw) as the last messenger of Allah. Accept the Quran as it has been since the beginning of Islam. Reject all the dajjals [including Rashad kazab] who claim prophethood.

to others:

**EVERYONE SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THIS CULT.

THEY REMOVE VERSES FROM THE QURAN.

THEY ABUSE THE HOLY BOOK TO JUSTIFY THEIR BELIEFS.

RASHAD KHALIFA, THEIR SO-CALLED MESSENGER WAS A RAPIST. CLICK FOR NEWS ARTICLE

DO NOT FALL FOR THIS STUPIDITY LIKE THE ONES IN QADIAN DID.

**

[Miss_Noland]

Peace Miss_Noland

Khimar is the name of the headscarf. But like all Arabic words each noun has a functional meaning. The functional meaning of khimar is to cover however it does not change the fact that khimar has always been meant as a headscarf. The headscarves were not a fashion trend so much as a form of "protection" from the sun in the hot climates of Arabia.

The intent of the ayaat is to wear the headscarf (khimar) in such a way that it also covers the bosoms. The use of the word Hijab was always the wrong term to use. Khimar can be worn without observing hijab, however the reverse is not necessarily true. Physical covering ensures so much protection and the way a woman conducts herself ensures there is another level of protection. The intent of hijab therefore is "protection" not oppression.

To do away with hijab is doing away with ones protection and that cannot be a sensible thing.

The way the Qur'an works is that if there is something already being done then it usually stays silent on that issue, it really only emphasises where it is necessary to do so. Since women were already covering their heads but not their bosoms the efficiency of the Divine language stated the non-complinace rather than reiterating the compliance.

This can be seen also in hadith as I stated clarification has been detailed therein. To assume that our opinions are better than scholars or the prophet (SAW) himself is to appoint ourselves as greater than them and we are also implicitly questionning their ability or sincerity which can bear on our state of iman.

However, in very rare cases women have been instructed in certain times of Islamic history to remove their scarves from their heads and the conditions for this was when certain societies that were taken over by Muslims had women who used to walk around bare breasted to balance the situation Muslim women were instructed to remove their headscarves until the society reached a balance.

To be drawn to the breast is greater than that to hair which in turn is greater than the face and in turn other iterations like niqaab. Niqaab hence was only really appropriate for societies that had a level of maturity in most western societies today the headscarf is sufficient and accepted. I agree in some areas even the headscarf may be too much in which case provided a mufti has given a fatwa then this can be done without accountability.

Interesting. I don't see how a simple headscarf wards off pervs in anyway. Anyway, covering hair is not as important as covering the rest of the body. I believe covering neck down should be enough. I fail to see how a head full of hair would attract the wrong kind of attention. I don't know, this seems man-made again...

Whatever....I will keep on with my search and exploring Quran. In another post of yours, you mentioned I need to trust God in order to accept his words as the ultimate truth. Well, I do believe in God and my trust in God is very very strong. However, this religious God doesn't seem very trustworthy so far and He is very sexist. Anyways, Thank you for clearing that up for me. I can never see myself taking Khimar over my head. It seems oppressive to say the least. I am sure Muslims women who do take Hijab don't feel that way and their intention is to only please Allah. To me modesty doesn't come from a headscarf, it's how you carry yourself and of course, wearing the right type of clothes does play a huge role. Also, the way men stare at women in the Middle East and South Asia, it's fair to say IT'S NOT WORKING!

[InLimbo]

There was a messenger in 1974? Wow, I have never heard of this.

Interesting to say the least.

@submitmj

Of course, I pray 5 times a day. GOD revealed a miracle through one of His messengers in 1974 as per 3:81, 33:7, and 98:2-5. His duty was to purge all religious innovations and restore Islam to it's original state, and that is exactly what he did. Go verify the math miracle for yourself, and come back to GOD. Submit to your Lord alone, and stop setting up prophet Muhammad as an idol beside GOD before the advent of a terrible day (judgment day).

peace

[USResident]

@midnighteyes

Words usually have a linguistical meaning and a technical meaning, which is the common usage of the word

The linguistic meaning of khimar is to cover yes, but the technical meaning is used to mean a HEADcover. Yes the Quran does not explicitly say to draw the khimar over your head, rather it says to draw it down over your chest. But given that it is a HEADcover, obviously it must be worn on the HEAD. Someone who understand the usage of the word would understand what the intended meaning of the command is, to cover both the head and the chest, not just the chest

Its as if you were to tell me, pull your socks up to cover your ankles. And I reply, well you want me to cover my ankles, but you didnt mention anything about my feet, so you must mean to forget about the feet and just make sure my ankles are covered. Someone who is familiar with the meaning and usage of socks will naturally understand thats the primary purpose of socks is to cover the feet, and you are adding something extra, to also make sure the ankles are covered

Islam is very clear and simple and its rulings are very clear and simple for those who come with an open mind and a sincere desire for the truth. For those who want to argue and prove their own points, its easy to take the simplest concepts and twist them in a hundred ways to make them seem as if some alternative meaning is suggested

Best answer in this thread. Miss Noland, you'll be a lot less confused if you stopped picking on words without understanding the usage of Arabic terms in their historical context. Khimar is what it is and we've been told how to use it in a certain way, thats not going to change for anyones liking or disliking or anyones textual comprehension of words. This is why you need to start looking into the lexicon for the meaning of certain Arabic words according to their historic usage and how they were understood in the times when Islam was revealed.

[USResident]

@Miss_Noland

Interesting. I don't see how a simple headscarf wards off pervs in anyway. Anyway, covering hair is not as important as covering the rest of the body. I believe covering neck down should be enough. I fail to see how a head full of hair would attract the wrong kind of attention. I don't know, this seems man-made again...

Whatever....I will keep on with my search and exploring Quran. In another post of yours, you mentioned I need to trust God in order to accept his words as the ultimate truth. Well, I do believe in God and my trust in God is very very strong. However, this religious God doesn't seem very trustworthy so far and He is very sexist. Anyways, Thank you for clearing that up for me. I can never see myself taking Khimar over my head. It seems oppressive to say the least. I am sure Muslims women who do take Hijab don't feel that way and their intention is to only please Allah. To me modesty doesn't come from a headscarf, it's how you carry yourself and of course, wearing the right type of clothes does play a huge role. Also, the way men stare at women in the Middle East and South Asia, it's fair to say IT'S NOT WORKING!

Miss Noland please go understand the concept of Aurah. Hijab is protection of ones Aurah. So Hijab is obligatory on both men and women. However both genders have different Aurahs.