OBL Raid humiliating for Pakistan

I agree with Gates, the raid was indeed humiliating for Pakistanis especially our security apparatus which consumes most of our budget, but cant provide us with security.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/05/18/pakistan.bin.laden/index.html?hpt=T2

Bin Laden raid was humiliating to Pakistanis, Gates and Mullen say
By Adam Levine, CNN National Security Producer
May 19, 2011 – Updated 0243 GMT (1043 HKT)

Washington (CNN) --** The ability of the United States to enter Pakistan, kill Osama bin Laden and leave without detection was a humiliation to Pakistanis, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said Wednesday.
**
But Gates and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, insisted there is no evidence Pakistani’s senior leadership knew of the bin Laden compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
“If I were in Pakistani shoes, I would say I’ve already paid a price. I’ve been humiliated. I’ve been shown that the Americans can come in here and do this with impunity,” Gates told reporters at the Pentagon, responding to a question about what should be done if someone in Pakistan’s government did know. “I think we have to recognize that they see a cost in that and a price that has been paid.”

**Mullen told reporters the incident was a “humbling experience” for the Pakistanis that has led to “internal soul-searching.”

“They’ve been through a lot tied to this, and their image has been tarnished. And they care, as we all do, and they care a lot about that. They’re a very proud military,” Mullen said.**

Both he and Gates said there is nothing to suggest senior Pakistani leadership knew the al Qaeda leader was in their midst. The United States does suspect some in the government, military or intelligence knew, but for now that is just a U.S. suspicion. They said they have found no evidence to support it.

“I mean, the supposition is somebody,” Gates said. “We don’t know whether it was, you know, retired people, whether it was low-level. Pure supposition on our part. It’s hard to go to them with an accusation when we have no proof that anybody knew.”

Mullen said the relationship between the two countries faces challenges going forward but its continuance is crucial for the United States.

“I think it would be a really significantly negative outcome if the relationship got broken,” Mullen said.

Gates said he is frustrated by the Pakistani reluctance to go after al Qaeda and Taliban elements in northwest Pakistan. The raid on bin Laden’s compound has opened an opportunity to address that issue again but the Pakistanis have warned the United States that another such covert raid would not be tolerated.

“The Pakistanis, over the last couple of weeks, have expressed the view that they are willing to go after some of these people and that we should not repeat the bin Laden operation, because they will undertake this themselves,” Gates said.

The secretary and the chairman also expressed great concern about all the details on the raid that have been made public.

Gates noted an agreement had been reached in the government not to discuss “operational details” but “that lasted about 15 hours.”

“We want to retain the capability to carry out these kinds of operations in the future. And when so much detail is available, it makes that both more difficult and riskier,” he told reporters.

Mullen warned the impact of all the leaks to the media is “close to jeopardizing this precious capability that we have.”

His criticism was not aimed only at those inside the government who are talking to the press without authorization. In addition, he said, “we’ve had far too many retired members who’ve spoken up.”

Re: OBL Raid humiliating for Pakistan

so as each person in the US administration comments on the OBL raid, there is going to be another thread?

Re: OBL Raid humiliating for Pakistan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/in-pakistans-army-anger-simmers/2011/05/18/AFU8yB7G_story.html

Anger simmers in Pakistani army over bin Laden raid

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan —** As Pakistan’s powerful military leaders seek to overcome extraordinary public criticism following the killing of Osama bin Laden this month in a Pakistani garrison city, they are also facing seething anger in barracks across the country.**

**Some of the outrage among the ranks stems from shame that the Pakistani military failed to locate bin Laden or detect the stealth U.S. raid on bin Laden’s compound, according to officers and military analysts. But most of it is directed toward the United States, an ally that has given billions of dollars to help sustain Pakistan’s counter-terrorism efforts but is now voicing rising concern that the country’s military is not dedicated to that fight.
**
Members of Pakistan’s army, by some accounts the world’s fifth-largest, have said little publicly about the U.S. operation to kill bin Laden in Abbottabad. But interviews with officers suggest a raucous and broad internal debate — one that is unlikely to undermine the institution, military analysts said, but that bodes poorly for U.S. hopes of an expanded Pakistani effort against Islamist militants.

To head off the discontent, Pakistani army chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani made town-hall-style appearances last week at five garrisons across the country, where he faced barbed questions from officers about the raid, according to some who attended. After a 45-minute address to the 5th Corps in the southern port city of Karachi, Kayani took queries for three hours. Attendees said questioners focused on the perceived affront in Abbottabad — and why Pakistan, in the words of one officer, did not “retaliate.”

In a meeting Sunday with visiting Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), Kayani relayed the “intense feelings” of the rank and file, according to a two-sentence military statement. Those sentiments have sparked fears of morale and discipline problems, retired Pakistani defense officials said.

**“It’s never good for a military of that size to have a feeling of resentment,” retired Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a security analyst, said. **The discovery of bin Laden, he added, “has stung them as much as it has stung the whole world.”

Even so, no officers interviewed said the bin Laden killing had convinced them that Pakistan needs to work harder to find terrorists or shift the focus of its defense strategy from archenemy India. Instead, some expressed hope that their superiors would stand up to the United States, by either cutting ties or extracting guarantees of an end to unilateral U.S. actions.

Pakistan should “immediately suspend cooperation with the U.S.,” said one officer in Pakistan’s north, who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak publicly. “In the lower ranks, anti-Americanism is at its highest.”

The United States, officers said, too rarely acknowledges that 140,000 Pakistani troops are deployed in the militant-riddled northwest, tasked with fighting fellow Muslims and compatriots. Nearly 3,000 Pakistani soldiers have been killed battling Islamist insurgents since 2001, according to the army. Recent accusations from Washington about Pakistani complicity with insurgents have prompted fresh reflections about that mission, they said.

“They want us to take out terrorists, and that’s what we are doing,” one lieutenant colonel said. “Look what’s happening in our cities — bombings everywhere. That’s the reaction for what we are doing.”

**Those opinions echo rhetoric heard throughout Pakistani society. **Days after the bin Laden raid, Kayani and his top generals warned that similar future raids would prompt Pakistan to reconsider its alliance with the United States. Parliament and the civilian government have since lined up behind the military, which has ruled this nation for half of its 64 years and still controls foreign and security policy.

But in a meeting with Pakistani news editors Monday, Kayani sounded less truculent, some who attended said. He said that public opinion should not dictate foreign policy and that Pakistan needs its alliance with the United States to remain relevant. “He thought the soldiers are confused,” one editor said.

The bin Laden incident has also shaken Pakistan’s senior ranks, where debate about an army offensive against the militant Haqqani network — which the United States has repeatedly requested — has raged for some time. The group mounts attacks in Afghanistan from a base in Pakistan, and U.S. officials say it receives support from Pakistani intelligence. Though the army still resists taking it on, the bin Laden killing has convinced some top generals that there needs to be “change all around,” according to a person familiar with their thinking.

Among the officer corps, there are ripples of embarrassment that Pakistan’s revered spies failed to find bin Laden, as well as irritation with air force officials’ contradictory explanations about why radars did not detect the U.S. helicopters that crossed from Afghanistan to carry out the raid. Some, though not all, complained that superiors had not sufficiently accounted for the various lapses.

“This is a really critical scenario for us,” said one senior officer in the north. “People always look toward our leadership, but we have no answer.”

Shame and fury

None of the serving officers interviewed expressed support for the resignation or firing of Kayani or other senior military officials. But there have been rare calls for such moves by prominent media figures, opposition politicians and even veterans.

“On the battlefield, if you commit a mistake, you pay for it with your life,” retired Brig. Gen. Saad Muhammad, a security analyst who served 35 years in the army, said of the discovery of bin Laden in a military city. “Likewise, here, if there were blunders, I want heads to roll.”

So far, there is little indication that will happen.** Instead, shame and fury within the military is evolving into deeper antagonism toward the United States, an ally already suspect among all ranks, Muhammad said. **A cutoff of U.S. military aid to Pakistan in 1990 meant that few top generals except Kayani studied in the United States, he said, while an Islamist curriculum nationalized in the 1980s under the former military dictator Mohammed Zia ul-Haq tilted the sympathies of today’s soldiers away from the West.

The officers interviewed voiced no compassion for bin Laden or the militants the army is battling. Neither did those who asked questions in Karachi, attendees said. But at the Karachi forum, Kayani was asked whether bin Laden’s wives would be handed over to Americans, a possibility that provokes extreme discomfort in Pakistan, where many believe Muslims are treated badly in U.S. detention. Kayani said no.

Kayani’s barracks tour helped answer some questions, officers said. But it did not put to rest larger ones about the U.S. partnership, the major said.

**“Our people are being killed everywhere . . . for a ‘friend’ who doesn’t recognize that,” he said, referring to Pakistani troops. “They naturally ask, ‘What are we doing all this for?’ ”
**

Special correspondents Shaiq Hussain in Islamabad, Nisar Mehdi in Karachi and Haq Nawaz Khan in Peshawar contributed to this report.

Re: OBL Raid humiliating for Pakistan

US would act unilaterally again inside Pakistan: Obama

Updated at: 1057 PST, Sunday, May 22, 2011
WASHINGTON: US President Obama has indicated he would order an Abbottabad type operation that killed Osama Bin Laden early this month if another militant leader was found in Pakistan.

He said the US was mindful of sovereignty issue but said the US could not allow “active plans to come to fruition without us taking some action”.

He was speaking to the BBC ahead of a European visit.

Asked what he would do if one of al-Qaeda’s top leaders, or the Taliban leader Mullah Omar, was tracked down to a location in Pakistan or another sovereign territory, he said the US would take unilateral action if required. “Our job is to secure the United States,” Obama said.

"We are very respectful of the sovereignty of Pakistan. But we cannot allow someone who is actively planning to kill our people or our allies’ people.

“We can’t allow those kind of active plans to come to fruition without us taking some action.”

Re: OBL Raid humiliating for Pakistan

yeah..and our PM and President did indeed protest for this humiliation instantly when they heard of the raid.