Obeying Majority; mainstream, majority-minority concepts

[inuit]

Split from thread: ** Haadi **

Originally posted by armughal:
that was a clarification of the post, and not intended to start any sectarian discussion…
the concept under discussion is not part of the mainstream Islam and if some minority believes it, then the name of that group definitely has to come up…

Originally posted by inuit:
There can be a better way to refute other concepts. Don’t be very proud of majority. It is proved from Quran that majority is wrong. 2ndly the group you belong to is in minorities. 3rdly I told you not to post any reply in that thread.

Originally posted by Ibn Sadique:
inuit The Quran says that majority of mankind is wrong and will not believe. There is no such statement that majority of Believers will be in error.

If being in minority is the criteria of being right then Zaidis or other fringe religion has more claim to be on the right path.

[gupguppy]

and your point is ?

[inuit]

Originally posted by Ibn Sadique:
inuit The Quran says that majority of mankind is wrong and will not believe. There is no such statement that majority of Believers will be in error.

If being in minority is the criteria of being right then Zaidis or other fringe religion has more claim to be on the right path.

Islam discards the very concepts of “majority” and "minority. Quran gives this as a general principle; addresses to all humanity making an allowance for all kind of good and bad deeds; not specific to belief only. There is no such statement that “majority of believers CAN NOT be in error”; In other words as per the thought you are giving majority of believers is collectively “Masoom”. It only majority, who cooks such kind of ideas to satisfy themselves and general public. [12:103-106], [5:20-26], [3:52], [51:32-36], [17:62], [25:30]

Contrary to this fact; (all) minority is not the criteria for wrong and right as well.

*Numbers mean absolutely nothing, quantity has no meaning and no significance whatsoever. There are today a billion two hundred million Muslims on this planet and we continue to suffer because we have forgotten who we are, what we are, why we are here and where we are heading to. *
JAMIATUL ULAMA (KZN) ISLAMIC WEBSITE

Keeping in view the theory you gave, how would you prove that you (majority of believers) are themselves believers? Does majority says it? Then it’s not a proof. It’s simply “apnay muh mian mithu”. This is neither logical nor practicable.

[gupguppy]

Well, certainly 'consensus of opinion' is a Qur'an-based concept...

[bao_bihari]

INuit..just incase i missed the point..are u referring to majorty in the context of majority of muslims ..or a majority of human as a whole......

[inuit]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
INuit..just incase i missed the point..are u referring to majorty in the context of majority of muslims ..or a majority of human as a whole......
[/QUOTE]
There are no categories or no classification in it. Think both ways, -- Majority & Minority; as I mentioned above.

[inuit]

so as per the discussion done in this thread previously, proves the fact that the term mainstream, largest group, majority & Swad e Azam holds no authoritative meanings.

Sorry Bro. Ibn Sadique if you are away from gupistan.com.

Taken from an old thread.

*Posted by Ibn Sadique: posted 01-24-2004 09:10 PM *

You have objected to that I have called Sunnis as ‘Mainstream Muslims’ but I see no reason for it. The logic behind it is both - their beliefs & practices and their numbers.

About Muslims being divided in to 73 sects was already foretold by the Prophet (saw), which I think you will concur.

There are numerous hadith where the Prophet (saw) has instructed the Muslims to adhere to his Sunnah and not to ‘leave’ the Jama’ah (The main body) of Muslims. I’ll quote a few:

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.” When asked which group will be on the right path, the Holy Prophet (saw) replied: “The main (al-Jama’ah) body of the Muslims.” (Ibne Majah Kitab al-Fitan)

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell.” When asked which group will be on the right path, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) replied: “The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunnah and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims.” (Tirmizi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat)

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-Azam (the great majority).” (Ibne Majah)

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!” (Ibne Majah)

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah’s mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell.”(Tirmizi)

So from the Muslims, the Sunnis being an overwhelming majority 85% - 90% - can be addressed as Mainstream Muslims – (Sunnis are sometimes even addressed as orthodox Muslims!)

As the Imamites or the Twelvers are an overwhelming group among the Shia; they can be addressed as Mainstream Shias.

Or on the hand you can type Mainstream Muslims in Google search engine and press enter – and lo, you will be surprised that the results will only relate to the Sunni Muslims.

So, my addressing Sunnis as Mainstream Muslims was not misleading in any way.

Therefore !

*Posted by inuit: posted 02-02-2004 09:10 AM *
Jama’ah is not a hujaat. There is no Jama’ah without Imam, don’t you know?

“Follow the largest group”, “Stay with largest group”; this is not according to Quran. These are fabricated “Aahadith”.

Read the contents of this thread in view of the concepts discussed in another thread:

Becoming a Barelvi for a day (Tahir ul-Qadri style)

[Ibn_Sadique]

Bro/Sis? inuit

“Follow the largest group”, “Stay with largest group”; this is not according to Quran These are fabricated “Aahadith”.

I came across this thread sometime back and was hoping for more knowledgeable brothers/sisters will respond but alas none did.

On what scholarship basis have you made your claim that these Aahadith are fabricated?

1. Do these Aahadith have no basis in the Quran or the Sunnah or the established principles of human nature and intellect?

2. Or these Aahadith are against the Quran or the Sunnah or the established principles of human nature and intellect?

3. Or do these Aahadith have been transmitted by unreliable sources?

4. Or is just that you do not like these Aahadith as they are not appropriate/suitable for your sectarian Beliefs?

Enlighten us.

[inuit]

Posted by Ibn Sadique :
I came across this thread sometime back and was hoping for more knowledgeable brothers/sisters will respond but alas none did.

Why didn’t anybody reply? The reason of not replying is that everybody who was knowledgeable agreed with the concept discussed.

Posted by Ibn Sadique :
On what scholarship basis have you made your claim that these Aahadith are fabricated?

These Aahadith contradicts with Quran as well as The Aqal Allah gave you don’t accept it true. Meanings “Aqali” and “Naqali” basis.

Posted by Ibn Sadique :

1. Do these Aahadith have no basis in the Quran or the Sunnah or the established principles of human nature and intellect?

Yes! These Aadadith have no basis in the Holy Quran or the Sunnah or the established principle of Human nature and intellect.

Posted by Ibn Sadique :
2. Or these Aahadith are against the Quran or the Sunnah or the established principles of human nature and intellect?

Yes! These Aahadith are against the Quran or the Sunnah or the established principles of human nature and intellect.

Posted by Ibn Sadique :
3. Or do these Aahadith have been transmitted by unreliable sources?

If these Aahadith are against the teachings of Quran. No need to investigate about them further even if you find the chain is authentic. – Chain can also be fabricated like Hadith.

Posted by Ibn Sadique :
4. Or is just that you do not like these Aahadith as they are not appropriate/suitable for your sectarian Beliefs?

Because these Aahadith are prohibiting one group people to advocate/preach their beliefs in other group of people that is why its unnatural. The both groups can be anyone; group, team, sect or sub-sect and in any number (population – minority or majority). Preaching or advocating can be in any form expressing feelings, spreading ideas, thoughts, beliefs and concepts. Whoever you are if you think it’s a truth, you have a right to convey it. No one any right to stop it by just saying that don’t do it you are wrong because you are in minority we are right because we are in majority.

Islam is a powerful religion with very powerful Daleel and Burhan. Majority and Minority is not a gauge to determine Islam and “Haq”. That is why these Aahdith are Fabricated.

If you want to continue the discussion please first take a look at this thread:
Becoming a Barelvi for a day (Tahir ul-Qadri style)