Obama Threatened Pakistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

Isnt Hussein Haqqani a US citizen?

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

apparently not

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\01\28\story_28-1-2010_pg7_36

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

It is time for the true Pakistanis to step up and stare down to these threats from government that has funded our elites, military over the average citizen. I hope that the beyghairat Pakistani government backs down and releases Davis - the end is near.

Remember that you need to respect yourself before you demand respect from others.

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

true that.

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

Foreign secretary Salman Bashir is also in danger of losing his job. Shameless Zardari wanted to wash away all the murders committed by Davis and even thought about retrospectively granting him diplomatic visa (and immunity) but Qureshi to his credit did not budge

It’s not a rumour, Americans did get Qureshi’s scalp

ISLAMABAD: When powerful men meet to discuss explosive issues, things can change in a big way. And that is precisely what happened after a highly secretive and immensely important meeting at the Presidency a few days back. The subject, not unexpectedly, being the fate of American killer Raymond Davis and that of Pakistan-US relations. Little did anyone know at the time that the huddle would instead end up deciding the fate of Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.
The meeting, convened by the president was attended by Prime Minister Gilani, Babar Awan, Rehman Malik, Shah Mehmood Qureshi and the DG ISI Gen Shuja Pasha. The president was given an exhaustive overview of the entire situation but quite early in the meeting it became evident that two of the men were standing on the wrong side of the prevalent dominant wisdom and desire of somehow finding a way to retrospectively cough up diplomatic immunity for Davis and to just wish away all the four deaths and the lingering crisis. But since one of the ‘erring’ two dared not be arbitrarily fired, poor Qureshi’s fate stood sealed.
Extreme pressure was exerted in the meeting on the former foreign minister to renege from his earlier stance and simply tell the court that the Foreign Office was in consonance with the American interpretation of Davis being a genuine diplomat and enjoying full immunity under Vienna Convention 1961. Facts be damned. According to highly reliable sources, interior ministry’s immense resources were also offered to cause any necessary change of documentation or any exceptional service warranted under these exceptional circumstances.
An adamant Qureshi, who had strongly argued the case that Raymond did not enjoy unlimited diplomatic immunity under law, flatly refused and even said that if need be, he’d rather resign than become an accessory to multiple murder. The meeting ended on a rather unsavoury and unexpected note. It was a surprising outcome for all the others because Qureshi had always been perceived, and even pilloried by the media, as being an American lackey and was not expected to dig in his heels over an issue so vital for the US administration.
But Qureshi’s latest run in with the Americans did not begin or end inside the Presidency. It had actually begun much earlier on January 28, a day after the deadly Raymond Davis incident in Lahore. He was in Karachi when he first received a call from US Ambassador to Pakistan, Cameron Munter and then had a conversation with US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton. Munter requested him for immediate councillor access to Davis and his immediate handover to US Consulate authorities. Qureshi asked Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir to talk to Munter and while authorising immediate councillor access to Davis made it clear to the foreign secretary that the matter of release would only be decided by the court as the legal process had already been kicked into motion in Punjab. Then came Hillary’s call.

An understandably perturbed Hillary wanted the immediate handover of Davis and insisted that Pakistan was violating the Vienna Convention by the illegal incarceration of a “US diplomat”. Confirming the contents of that conversation to The News, Shah Mehmood said that he had patiently explained to Hillary that while he understood her anxiety she too had to understand the highly emotive and sensitive nature of the incident. And also that since the judicial process had been kick-started in Lahore, the Foreign Office and the US had little option but to submit to the due process of law. Anyway, the two decided to discuss the matter on the sidelines of the then forthcoming Munich Security Conference, and the line went silent.
Since then, Ambassador Munter and other senior embassy officials remained busy with engaging Pakistani authorities and the Foreign Office, blowing hot or cold, depending upon the level of their own frustration and the pressure coming their way from Washington. A few days prior to the Munich Conference, Qureshi received a call from Ambassador Munter who said that he had been directed to convey the message that unless Qureshi signed the diplomatic immunity paper prior to the conference, the scheduled meeting between him and Hillary would stand cancelled. The message was starkly clear a la George Bush: You are either with us or against us. So be it, Qureshi is reported to have told the ambassador and even cancelled his trip altogether. The chief of the army staff went instead to Munich and that is an appointment that even the US secretary of state cannot cancel, Davis or no Davis.

Once Qureshi ignored the latest Hillary communique, the Americans stopped talking to him altogether because it had now become evident that Qureshi was not going to budge on his stance of Davis not being eligible for full diplomatic immunity. Qureshi was no longer a welcome dinner guest and neither could he be allowed to remain in office. The last thing Washington can afford is his having a Pakistani foreign minister with a reawakened conscience.
According to highly reliable sources, the next claimed scalp may be that of the equally intransigent (from American perspective), Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir who is now the only remaining top level hurdle in the apprehended shameless handover of Davis by a compromised political leadership. The foreign secretary is also of the considered firm view that Davis does not qualify for full immunity. And there are legitimate causes for this argument, which were further exposed by glaring inconsistencies in the forever changing US stance on the issue.
Owing to the paucity of space, irrefutable arguments proving Davis’ ineligibility are not being reproduced here and also because a lot has already been written on the legal aspects of the subject, including the highlighted fact that in the initial reaction by US authorities, Raymond Davis was identified as merely an “employee” of the US Consulate in Lahore, but never as a diplomat. He was referred to as an employee and not a consulate general official. “It was a simple clerical error” was the incredulous justification offered by two senior members of the Islamabad embassy in an off-the-record conversation with the scribe. But it gets even better.
A lot is being made by the Americans and their interlocutors of the January 20, 2010 communication of the Islamabad embassy wherein the FO had been asked for the issuance of a non-diplomatic identity card for Davis. It is being argued that this communication clearly identifies Raymond Davis as being administrative and technical staff of Islamabad embassy and therefore automatically eligible for diplomatic immunity. But this is only half the story.
Certain discrepancies in 2010 had already caused the Foreign Office to seek clarifications. In Sept 2009, the US State Department had originally identified him as technical advisor (contractor) going on “official business” while applying for his visa. Later he was attached to US Consulate Lahore as an employee. So when his name popped up again in January 2010, identifying him as being attached with the US Embassy Islamabad, the FO wanted answers to some very pertinent questions. The relevant FO officials repeatedly asked the US embassy to provide the details of Davis’ new responsibilities along with those of his past postings. When weeks had passed with the embassy avoiding a categorical clarification on this count, the FO finally sent a formal Note Verbale to the US embassy on July 8, 2010. It bore ref no: P(1-A)/2009-ID(USA). This note pertained to a total of ten Americans about whom similar details were being sought from the embassy but no response had been forthcoming from the US end. Davis was listed as Note No:252/HR. When FO authorities were asked about the presence of 2009 in the reference number of the note verbale otherwise sent on July 8, 2010, they clarified that it was perfectly in accordance with their internal filing sequence and did not reflect any anomaly.
Unable to cover this critical gap in their argument to secure Davis’ release on the afterthought alibi of diplomatic immunity, the US embassy has adopted the rather incredulous argument of denying outright the existence of this critical correspondence. The FO has been told at the highest level that the US embassy never received this Note Verbale. The two senior functionaries stuck to the denial mantra when asked by The News about the embassy’s refusal to divulge the real assignments and other details of Davis and nine others. They insisted that all the embassy records had been thoroughly checked but there was no evidence of the cited note verbale ever being received. When they were told that the July 8 note was present in FO records and its existence and its having been sent to US embassy was recorded in more than one place and constituted a process that could not be tampered with within hours of an event taking place, the duo took the reference number of the ‘missing note’ to ostensibly try locating it from their records. This raises an interesting question: if they still needed the reference number at this stage, then how did they even check their records earlier?
Can you name a single other incidence where prior to this particular note verbale or since, any note verbale sent by FO to the US embassy has ever gone missing? the two functionaries were asked. Not surprisingly, the duo could not cite a single such incidence.
Interesting coincidence one must say, where the entire US administration makes critical clerical errors which only expose Davis as being a non-diplomat. Another interesting coincidence again, when only one specific official communication out of hundreds of similar exchanges goes missing, and which once again stood to expose Raymond Davis for being anything but a legitimate diplomat on a legitimate diplomatic assignment.

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Obama Threatened Pakistan

Lahore police have said that Mr. Davis killed those 2 guys not in self defense, but it was a cold blooded murder. In fact, one of the guy was shot from behind while attempting to flee. Based on that, should he be prosecuted to full extent of the law?

Also, the fact that the US Consulate General has refused to hand over the car that was involved in accident, and killing of pedestrian for investigation shows that they have no respect of the law or care for people who could be, and are killed, w/o anyone doing anything about it. Adding to that, this is what outgoing FM said. It seems like he has no diplomatic immunity, but they want govt to grant him one.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\02\13\story_13-2-2011_pg1_2

Clinton ‘forced’ me to grant immunity to Davis: Qureshi

LAHORE: Former foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, said that US State Secretary Hilary Clinton had pressurised him to sign the summary giving diplomatic immunity to Raymond Davis, a US functionary who brutally killed two Pakistani nationals in Lahore, but he refused to oblige, a private TV channel reported on Saturday. Talking to high officials of Foreign Office (FO) after his farewell visit to the FO in Islamabad, Shah Mahmood Qureshi said that Clinton exerted pressure on him to verify the diplomatic immunity to Raymond Davis, but he refused to do so. He further said that US Ambassador to Pakistan, Cameron Munter, also telephoned him and said if immunity to Davis would not be verified then Hilary Clinton would not have a meeting with him in Munich, Germany. daily times monitor

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

No...You are asking for trouble.

Hand over Mr.Davis back to the consulate and close the chapter.The issue can go out of hands and if it goes ,then it will be a big blow to Islambad.

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

He must be prosecuted. Period.

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

If it is proved that he is acutally a dimplomat, follow the internatiional laws. Keep your emotions cool if you don't want pakistan military is termed as rougue, US can also make u-turn and stop all aid to military, it can unleash its fire power on Pakistan. US give a damn regarding Taliban issue, it can wipe out in a seconds dropping a nuclear or critter device. Keep in view the excessive fire power it has used in past. Learn the lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

Well, Zardari and Rehman Malik are trying their hardest to prove him diplomat and Mahmood Qureshi has said that Davis does not fall under immunity category. Now that Mahmood Qureshi has been dismissed Zardari/Rehman Malik will prevail.

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

Whatever happened to respect for due process. Are the Americans Gods that they should be allowed to do as they like in Pak without even a trial?

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

any luck? when they are throwing out hussain haqqani? and abandoning zardari? i hope they do it fast...

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

Rehman malik and Zardari has made it harder on themselves, they may have fired Shah Mehmoood Qureshi under a disguise of dissolving cabinet and making a new one, where in new cabinet 95% are the old ministers...

Zardari has no option in this, tampering with govt files to give raymond a safe way out can get both zardari and rehman malik in big trouble... but as always, both have not seen it coming yet... it is not these two.. none of the self-declared GREAT leader sees it coming..

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

No way!

Even if it's tantamount to suicide I would for one never let a criminal go no matter how big his friends are. Justice has to be served.

America cannot just go round and bully other nations like a thug becuase it will be the end of the superpower for sure.... theres a limit to how much you can bite and chew and American arrogance is at breaking point right now.

Pakistan should take the oppurtunity and bargain for a better deal... right now we need to make every effort to capitalise on the revolutionary fervour sweeping the Muslim world.

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

When I said 'they will prevail' I meant they will probably be successful in letting him out of the country, what will happen afterwards is probably they don't see it.

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

Amreeka = Me
Pakistan = My 5 years old daughter

After all the threatening and stuff, I have to talk to her politely to make her do things. She just goes crazy when I threaten her too much to do some stuff. She is so chalak. She knows that i can slap her so hard but I'll not. :)

Moral of the story? there is a big difference in "can do" and "will do"

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

If Pakistan says that Davis shot the two guys in cold blood, they should be able to come up with a motive for the crime too. Otherwise, their claim does not really have any credibility.

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan

Pakistan has more reason to kill Davis than he had for killing at least one of his victims....

However whatever the case it is for the Courts and Pakistan Judiacary to decide the matter not some jumped up Politicians.

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Re: Obama Threatened Pakistan


**
bhai mere court kia kar legaa? ziyaada se ziyaada sazaa e maut de degaa...bas na? uske ba'd kia hogaa? pata hai? uske ba'd na Obama ka fone aayegaa k beTaa chhoR do use varna!!!!!....phir Davis "Khoon bahaa" pay kar degaa aur vaapas USA chalaa jaayegaa...he'll return to Pakistan in a couple of years as US Ambassador :D ab itnaa to faida pahoNchnaa hii chaahiye na :)** "Khoon bahaa" to saudis ne pay kar ke British murderer ko chhoR diyaa thaa]

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Re: Should Pakistan prosecute Raymond Davis regardless of his diplomatic status?

Isn't that what they have been doing with the drone attacks ? Why create a furore now ? Most probably this thing will be hushed up and Davis will be back in the USA as soon as the public sentiments cool down.