Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
obama wowwwwww since his father was a muslim i thought he might be a little mo supprtive towardz deze countriez bhu now afta deze statemntz he has made im not sure bhu mayBE mCaIn should be the next prezzz
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
Obama is not good for Pakistani generals & those who are hiding, supporting and exporting Jihadis. Pakistani generals have used al Busho for too long w/o getting much for billions of $$ they got. Once new sheriff in the town there will be some accountability...
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
Considering the ass backward way many Pakistanis decide on these things, what they should do is to first figure out who Indians are gonna vote for. And then vote for the other guy. Simple :D
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
^ lolzzzzzzzzzz............ But dont decide on that .Sometimes one person will favour both the sides.You people have to consult and astrologer for this and then need to figure out :D
Considering the ass backward way many Pakistanis decide on these things, what they should do is to first figure out who Indians are gonna vote for. And then vote for the other guy. Simple :D
lol
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
Obama is saying in public the exact same things that most US and other world leaders say in private. Think about it. Our agencies have supported several types of jihadis, including many Kashmiri mujahideen. Our army is playing some strange game by sometimes surrendering, other times fighting or ignoring the Talibans.
We can play these games with India and sometimes in Afghanistan. But we cannot play these games against the whole world and not expect people to call us on it.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
Obama was supposed to meet Gilani today, did they meet and did they release any details?
Obama is saying in public the exact same things that most US and other world leaders say in private. Think about it. Our agencies have supported several types of jihadis, including many Kashmiri mujahideen. Our army is playing some strange game by sometimes surrendering, other times fighting or ignoring the Talibans.
We can play these games with India and sometimes in Afghanistan. But we cannot play these games against the whole world and not expect people to call us on it.
American leftie cabal aka democrats are against Pakistan. Doesn't matter if they say that stuff in public or private.
American right aka Republicans have always relied on Pakistan and supported Pakistan.
Even now Republicans are going out of their way to support Pakistan and Pakistan army.
As soon American lefties take over the US government, Pakistan will be put under microscope just like in the past.
Anyone blaming Pakistan or Pak army for the strange mutterings of Obama is naive at best.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
Pakistan needs to do a real shake up on his foreign policy, really.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
burqaposhx,
I know my politics, thank you.
Listen, if McCain were to win, the only thing he will do differently with Pakistan is to not talk about what he does publicly. That's it.
The fact is that the US politicians, military people and pretty much anyone that matters in the country has made up their mind that Pakistan is playing some shady game in FATA and Afghanistan. Therefore we can expect sweet talkings in public, some aid $$ but our leaders civilian or military will be forced to take a different tune.
There's nothing any of us can do about it except protest. But I'm sure many people in Sarhad and FATA would welcome ANY action taken to save them from the medieval tactics of the Talibans, even if it comes via US drones and bombers. This is a really sad state of our country - our rulers and military don't want to take responsibility and will only act when orders come from Washington.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
There's nothing any of us can do about it except protest.
^ What should we be protesting. If our government can not control parts of our own country, how can we blame others?
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
^^ What we should be protesting is that USA has greater say in our land than our own people do.
When Swat and other parts of Sarhad, let alone FATA were being brutalized by the Talibans, our rulers do nothing. But one phone call from DC and fire lights on their shalwars.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
I agree, our government has done literally nothing to save people living in those areas. Some local Mullah decides to harbour Taliban tattu and locals are made virtual hostages in the name of Sharia rule from this mountain to the other. This foolish act of some illiterate war mongerer has potraits as locals are welcoming them and want Afghanistan like Taliban rule there. The truth is totally inverse, I am telling you as my friend is from Kohat and talks to the family every now and then. People there want their centuries old jirga system and development in the area. Things have changed since 80s, the elders have realised the importance of development while keeping their faith and tradition as before. The sympathy for foreign ex-Mujahideen is fading away day by day.
This is the failure of Mush's policy during war on terror. Instead of using ISI for political gains, if he had used them and MI in FATA, we would have made all foriegn fighters surrender (with nobody to harbour them) and deported them to their respected countries under a special treaty in which those countries will give them pardon and give them a chance to live normal lives (i.e. Jehad is over, Soviets are defeated and your leadership gone wild and now is on run, you go home and live your life Islamically and nobody will bother you). For those who don't surrender, there are always local jails where they can be rotten (instead of making a fuzz by exporting to Gitmo). The border could be sealed to a greater effectiveness. But the prez was busy in counting Aid dollars and doing jor-tor with corrupt lota politicians creating yet another PML. Ch**ya!
You are seriously mistaken when you mix up the the interest of Pakistani public and Pakistani army…Pakistani army has seriously hampered the well being of Pakistani people over the years and recently have taken the things to so much exteremes that the existence and survival of the people is at stake…by double playing jihadi games for self interest…illegal President Musharraf mastered this game of double play to extend his illegal rule…against the interest of Pakistan and Pakistani nation…and American right republicans typically support these rougue Pakistani army generals from Zia ul Haq to Musharraf…
In my personal opinion Pakistani Americans should vote for democrats who are more sympathetic to the interest of Pakistan and Pakistani nation rather than Pakistan army who are out there to destroy the Pakistani nation and people…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/world/asia/30pstan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
C.I.A. Outlines Pakistan Links With Militants
By MARK MAZZETTI and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: July 30, 2008
WASHINGTON — A top Central Intelligence Agency official traveled secretly to Islamabad this month to confront Pakistan’s most senior officials with new information about ties between the country’s powerful spy service and militants operating in Pakistan’s tribal areas, according to American military and intelligence officials.
The decision to confront Pakistan with what the officials described as a new C.I.A. assessment of the spy service’s activities seemed to be the bluntest American warning to Pakistan since shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks about the ties between the spy service and Islamic militants.
The C.I.A. assessment specifically points to links between members of the spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, and the militant network led by Maulavi Jalaluddin Haqqani, which American officials believe maintains close ties to senior figures of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas.
The C.I.A. has depended heavily on the ISI for information about militants in Pakistan, despite longstanding concerns about divided loyalties within the Pakistani spy service, which had close relations with the Taliban in Afghanistan before the Sept. 11 attacks.
That ISI officers have maintained important ties to anti-American militants has been the subject of previous reports in The New York Times. But the C.I.A. and the Bush administration have generally sought to avoid criticism of Pakistan, which they regard as a crucial ally in the fight against terrorism.
The visit to Pakistan by the C.I.A. official, Stephen R. Kappes, the agency’s deputy director, was described by several American military and intelligence officials in interviews in recent days. Some of those who were interviewed made clear that they welcomed the decision by the C.I.A. to take a harder line toward the ISI’s dealings with militant groups.
Pakistan’s prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, is currently in Washington meeting with Bush administration officials. A White House spokesman, Gordon D. Johndroe, would not say whether President Bush had raised the issue during his meeting on Monday with Mr. Gilani. In an interview broadcast Tuesday on the PBS program “The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer,” Mr. Gilani said he rejected as “not believable” any assertions of ISI’s links to the militants. “We would not allow that,” he said.
The Haqqani network and other militants operating in the tribal areas along the Afghan border are said by American intelligence officials to be responsible for increasingly deadly and complex attacks inside Afghanistan, and to have helped Al Qaeda establish a safe haven in the tribal areas.
Lt. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the acting commander of American forces in Southwest Asia, made an unannounced visit to the tribal areas on Monday, a further reflection of American concern.
The ISI has for decades maintained contacts with various militant groups in the tribal areas and elsewhere, both for gathering intelligence and as proxies to exert influence on neighboring India and Afghanistan. It is unclear whether the C.I.A. officials have concluded that contacts between the ISI and militant groups are blessed at the highest levels of Pakistan’s spy service and military, or are carried out by rogue elements of Pakistan’s security apparatus.
With Pakistan’s new civilian government struggling to assert control over the country’s spy service, there are concerns in Washington that the ISI may become even more powerful than when President Pervez Musharraf controlled the military and the government. **Last weekend, Pakistani military and intelligence officials thwarted an attempt by the government in Islamabad to put the ISI more directly under civilian control. **
Mr. Kappes made his secret visit to Pakistan on July 12, joining Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for meetings with senior Pakistani civilian and military leaders.
“It was a very pointed message saying, ‘Look, we know there’s a connection, not just with Haqqani but also with other bad guys and ISI, and we think you could do more and we want you to do more about it,’ ” one senior American official said of the message to Pakistan. The official was briefed on the meetings; like others who agreed to talk about it, he spoke on condition of anonymity because of the diplomatic delicacy of Mr. Kappes’s message.
The meetings took place days after a suicide bomber attacked the Indian Embassy in Kabul, killing dozens. Afghanistan’s government has publicly accused the ISI of having a hand in the attack, an assertion American officials have not corroborated.
The decision to have Mr. Kappes deliver the message about the spy service was an unusual one, and could be a sign that the relationship between the C.I.A. and the ISI, which has long been marked by mutual suspicion as well as mutual dependence, may be deteriorating.
The trip is reminiscent of a secret visit that the top two American intelligence officials made to Pakistan in January. Those officials — Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, and Michael V. Hayden, the C.I.A. director — sought to press Mr. Musharraf to allow the C.I.A. greater latitude to operate in the tribal territories.
It was the ISI, backed by millions of covert dollars from the C.I.A., that ran arms to guerrillas fighting Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s. It is now American troops who are dying in Afghanistan, and intelligence officials believe those longstanding ties between Pakistani spies and militants may be part of an effort to destabilize Afghanistan.
Admiral Mullen and Mr. Kappes met in Islamabad with several high-ranking Pakistani officials. They included Mr. Gilani; Mr. Musharraf; Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the army chief of staff and former ISI director; and Lt. Gen. Nadeem Taj, the current ISI director.
One American counterterrorism official said there was no evidence of Pakistan’s government’s direct support of Al Qaeda. He said, however, there were “genuine and longstanding concerns about Pakistan’s ties to the Haqqani network, which of course has links to Al Qaeda.”
American commanders in Afghanistan have in recent months sounded an increasingly shrill alarm about the threat posed by Mr. Haqqani’s network. Earlier this year, American military officials pressed the American ambassador in Pakistan, Anne W. Patterson, to get Pakistani troops to strike Haqqani network targets in the tribal areas.
Gen. Dan K. McNeill, the senior NATO commander in Afghanistan until last month, frequently discussed the ISI’s contacts with militant groups with General Kayani, Pakistan’s military chief.
During his visit to the tribal areas on Monday, General Dempsey met with top Pakistani commanders in Miramshah, the capital of North Waziristan, where Pakistan’s 11th Army Corps and Frontier Corps paramilitary force have a headquarters, to discuss the security situation in the region, Pakistani officials said.
North Waziristan, the most lawless of the tribal areas, is a hub of Al Qaeda and other foreign fighters, and the base of operations for the Haqqani network.
On Tuesday, Pakistani security forces raided an abandoned seminary owned by Mr. Haqqani, Pakistani officials said. No arrests were made.
Yazdi bro! You quote yet another American Leftie aka NYT to support the leftie Obama’s mutterings on Pakistan. Either you have no idea about American partisan politics, or you are simply playing “main naa maaanoo”.
Here is the denial from Pakistan
Pakistan denies ‘malicious’ report on CIA confrontation - Yahoo! News
Pakistan denies ‘malicious’ report on CIA confrontation
ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Pakistan’s military Wednesday rejected a “malicious” report that a top CIA official visiting this month confronted Islamabad over ties between the country’s intelligence service and militants.
The New York Times said agency deputy director Stephen Kappes highlighted alleged ties between Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and those responsible for the surge of violence across the border in Afghanistan.
“We reject this report. This is unfounded, baseless and malicious,” chief Pakistani military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told AFP.
“I would like to emphasise here that ISI is a premier intelligence agency which has caught or apprehended maximum Al-Qaeda operatives including those who were linked with criminals and responsible for attacking the US mainland on September 11, 2001,” Abbas said.
Citing anonymous defense and intelligence sources, the Times said the meeting focused on supposed intelligence links with Taliban commander Jalauddin Haqqani, who is based in Pakistan’s tribal areas.
It said that earlier this year the US military pressed for Pakistani troops to hit the Haqqani network.
“It was a very pointed message saying, 'Look, we know there’s a connection, not just with Haqqani but also with the other bad guys and ISI, and we think you could do more and we want you to do more about it,” a senior US official told the Times.
The newspaper said the meeting could be a sign that the relationship between the Central Intelligence Agency and the ISI “may be deteriorating.”
The report comes after Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani met with US President George W. Bush in Washington and urged him not to act “unilaterally” against militants in Pakistan’s lawless tribal zones.
Gilani insisted Monday that Pakistan was committed to fighting extremists.
Pakistan’s fledgling government caused concern in Washington by launching talks with militants soon after beating allies of US-backed President Pervez Musharraf in elections in February.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
McCain all the way.
Obama is the worst joke inflict on the American people..
Yazdi bro! You quote yet another American Leftie aka NYT to support the leftie Obama's mutterings on Pakistan. Either you have no idea about American partisan politics, or you are simply playing "main naa maaanoo".
Burqaposhx bhaijan!
Surely I am not an expert on American politics as you are claiming to be...I am looking at the candidates from Pakistan point of view....and I merely pointed out that right wing republicans have over the years supported opportunist like Musharraf and Zia ul Haq against the interest of Pakistani nations and have always resorted to illegalities and have been instrumental in making a monster out of these rogue army guys in our country...the main reason of our situation where we are trapped today...
I hope we do not see another era like Bush....and I hope there is a change in American attitude where they start supporting the rule of law and legality instead of supporting these opportunist rogue Pakistan army generals who have harmed our country more than anybody else...I just want you to see clearly the fact that the interest of Pakistani people and interest to these Pakistani army opportunist illegal rogue Generals are two different things...
Burqaposhx bhaijan!
..... Surely I am not an expert on American politics ...
Yazdi bro!
Obviously you are not alone. Many Pakistanis make the same mistakes when they mix the Leftie and the right-wing politicians of America.
However ignorance is never a good excuse.
This thread is about Obama's mutterings on Pakistan. So why do you want to go on a on about unrelated stuff. If you want civilian governments in Pakistan then tell them to learn how to govern. Don't blame Army just because they step in and help fix and run our broken institutions.
Burqaposhx bhaijan! .......I am looking at the candidates from Pakistan point of view ....right wing republicans have over the years supported ....Musharraf and Zia ul Haq .....
If you have an axe to grind with few Pak generals, be my guest. Just remember the money given to Pak army comes to Pakistan. They may buy weapons with some of it but that's all. The rest of money stays in Pakistan.
Pakistan's struggles due to trouble in Afghanistan are not new. These things have existed since time immemorial. One day when Afghan tribals will grow up and be civilized, things will hopefully turn for the better. Until then Pakistan has to play a role there and American Leftie Obama's mutterings are not helping in this.
Re: Obama is not good for Pakistan
bro, being desi we can support one of the candidate in prez election so that next us president do not put unnecessary pressure on desi govt.
yes sometimes govt has to abandon their plan after a call from white house b'cos US is super power in the world and they can do whatever they want (take example of iraq, no wmd but bombed the country even though UN was against it)
So support US and pray that next prez support desi's too