PPP leaders at the federal government level are in favour of it where as its leaders at the provincial level are against it.
true..in fact the PPP provincially is more hardline on renaming they prefer names like Pakhtunistan ..which the ANP doesn't want to use because they get accused of being anti pakistani. But the PPP is still close to Anp when it comes to renaming. I suspect the PML-N will block any renaming..
Re: NWFP to be renamed Pakhtoonkhwa: Zardari
NWFP to be renamed. Wow!! What a news....
We can now expect rivers of milk and honey to flow through Pukhtunkhwa.....!!
What an achievement of the new ANP govt. They have taken NWFP to new heights of prosperity and development. People are celebrating in streets because of this great achievement. What else can we ask for.
NWFP to be renamed. Wow!! What a news....
We can now expect rivers of milk and honey to flow through Pukhtunkhwa.....!!
What an achievement of the new ANP govt. They have taken NWFP to new heights of prosperity and development. People are celebrating in streets because of this great achievement. What else can we ask for.
Though renaming will not be a biggest achievement (to our liking?), but it should be appreciated in the sense that it was one of ANP's election promises and they are fulfilling it. Hopefully they will move on to bigger milestones/achievements once this is done.
NWFP to be renamed. Wow!! What a news....
We can now expect rivers of milk and honey to flow through Pukhtunkhwa.....!!
What an achievement of the new ANP govt. They have taken NWFP to new heights of prosperity and development. People are celebrating in streets because of this great achievement. What else can we ask for.
Its an issue of identity. If names don't matter why were Lyallpur, Montgomery etc changed?
The fact that we are still having this discussion is ridiculous enough!
I doubt it - all political parties within Pakistan are famed for one thing -doing nothing. At least the ANP would be able to boast of fulfilling one election promise :P
Though renaming will not be a biggest achievement (to our liking?), but it should be appreciated in the sense that it was one of ANP's election promises and they are fulfilling it. Hopefully they will move on to bigger milestones/achievements once this is done.
Renaming would not be an issue if all the areas of present day NWFP were actually Pakhtun. Why it is such a big issue is because one ethnicity is about to force its whole identity on to other ethnicities. If the NWFP was minus Chitral and Hazara then it would be less of an issue.
Its actually really ironic that the ANP points fingers at Punjab and accuses it of dominating Pakistan and taking advantage yet give the ANP some power they actually show they are no different to those who they accuse. They are absolute hypocrites - for decades they complain of being an unheard or powerless minority in Pakistan yet they prove themselves just as bad as they accuse.
Neither Montgomery, lyallpur are ethnic names and neither were they changed to ethnic names. This is the first time in the history of pakistan an ethnicity is taking a province as its own when in fact it was shared.
Its an issue of identity. If names don't matter why were Lyallpur, Montgomery etc changed?
The fact that we are still having this discussion is ridiculous enough!
*Renaming would not be an issue if all the areas of present day NWFP were actually Pakhtun. Why it is such a big issue is because one ethnicity is about to force its whole identity on to other ethnicities. If the NWFP was minus Chitral and Hazara then it would be less of an issue.
*
I think we're going around in circles here. In democracy, the majority wins. Are you saying that the majority of 'NWFP' does NOT support a name change? If so, please provide some proof.
Whether the name change occurs through parliamentary procedure or an outright referendum, the Chitralis and the Hazara should have the full right to participate in the process. If you're confident that the name change can be blocked, then there is no need for discussion. When you're talking about a democratic process, the will of the majority will rule. The majority opinion is to change the name of the province, the rest of the arguments simply do not fly.
**
Its actually really ironic that the ANP points fingers at Punjab and accuses it of dominating Pakistan and taking advantage yet give the ANP some power they actually show they are no different to those who they accuse. They are absolute hypocrites - for decades they complain of being an unheard or powerless minority in Pakistan yet they prove themselves just as bad as they accuse.
**
It's a name change, not depriving people of their economic or political rights. This isn't about singling out ethnic groups or silencing minority voices. The elected leaders of Chitral, Haara division have every right to voice their opposition and they have (ANP is not denying their rights to oppose), however this is about the will majority not the deprivation of minority rights. So I am not even sure where your comparison applies.
**
Neither Montgomery, lyallpur are ethnic names and neither were they changed to ethnic names. This is the first time in the history of pakistan an ethnicity is taking a province as its own when in fact it was shared.**
They were colonial names that were changed to indigenous names. There was no argument, no protests when that occurred. When the majority of one province in one federation feels so strongly about an issue and has elected a party both on the provincial and the national level to make the change happen, who are you deny these rights? It's a name change not the construction of a dam or a royalty issue.
Under the modern sociological definition Sindh, Punjab are all ethnic names. Please don't even try that argument that Punjab stands for 5 rivers, because it is seen as an ethnic identity. Same applies to Sindh.
What do you say about Baluchistan? There are significant Pakhtuns in Baluchistan, the name itself stands for "The land of the Baluchis" yet there isn't a Pakhtun movement calling "to share" the name or some other nonsensical proposal mentioned on this thread.
stupid people have stupid logic. :(
Why would you want to name another province base on ethnicity...to draw more ethnic tension in the country? Next you will see Seraiki will be demanding for their own province, Seraikistan, and then MQM will be asking for Jinnahpur, Hindko speaking will be asking for Hindkowanstan, Chitralis will be asking for Chitralistan??? Punjabi army with it's greater Punjab movement will be form their own country, Punjabistan. Hence, Pakistan will be split in 6-10 smaller countries. Is that what you want??? Gaddari aka Mr. 10% (Now 99%), doesn't care about Pakistan, he only cares about his pocket.
My suggestion is to remove the province system, keep the districts or split the province and create 15 smaller provinces. What you think?
stupid people have stupid logic. :(
Why would you want to name another province base on ethnicity...to draw more ethnic tension in the country? Next you will see Seraiki will be demanding for their own province, Seraikistan, and then MQM will be asking for Jinnahpur, Hindko speaking will be asking for Hindkowanstan, Chitralis will be asking for Chitralistan??? Punjabi army with it's greater Punjab movement will be form their own country, Punjabistan. Hence, Pakistan will be split in 6-10 smaller countries. Is that what you want??? Gaddari aka Mr. 10% (Now 99%), doesn't care about Pakistan, he only cares about his pocket.
My suggestion is to remove the province system, keep the districts or split the province and create 15 smaller provinces. What you think?
You are right, it is sad. Soon we might have PMLN demanding independent princely states, Nawazpur with Raiwand as capital and Shahbaznagar with Lahore as capital :(
You know what? You are right, democracy means majority. I think best would be to make Pakistan one unit. Change the name of Pakistan to Punjab and declare Punjabi as the official language of one Pakistan. After that we all could call ourselves Punjabi and can live peacefully in Punjab (present Pakistan), without any provincialism. What do you think? 
Why dont we put issues like Kalabagh Dam for the vote? voting does not solve everything. imagine if Punjab NWFP Sindh - the 3 affected provinces hadto vote for Kalbagh dam?
there are many pakhtuns who are not bothered about a name changing and many who believe a neutralname should exist. sadly they arenot being heard. the ANP have ethnicicised the issue. Anybody seen as anti-name change is seen as anti-Pakhtun. thats not true atall. its not abot it being blocked - its about realising the reality - a multi ethnic province.
Its is depriving people of their cultural rights and it ignores their culture. The people of Hazara division and Chitral are not Pakhtuns - there are some Pakhtuns in Hazara but but they are no way near a majority. It wont be long before the ANP wont to Pashtunize the whole province - next they will demand the NWFP assembly speak pashtu.
The ANP should be decent enough to allow the people of Hazara and Chitral to opt out or are they nothing but subjugated races? For decades the ANP lived off Punjab being the bad guy in Pakisan yet they prove themselves to be no better.
I think we're going around in circles here. In democracy, the majority wins. Are you saying that the majority of 'NWFP' does NOT support a name change? If so, please provide some proof.
Whether the name change occurs through parliamentary procedure or an outright referendum, the Chitralis and the Hazara should have the full right to participate in the process. If you're confident that the name change can be blocked, then there is no need for discussion. When you're talking about a democratic process, the will of the majority will rule. The majority opinion is to change the name of the province, the rest of the arguments simply do not fly.
It's a name change, not depriving people of their economic or political rights. This isn't about singling out ethnic groups or silencing minority voices. The elected leaders of Chitral, Haara division have every right to voice their opposition and they have (ANP is not denying their rights to oppose), however this is about the will majority not the deprivation of minority rights. So I am not even sure where your comparison applies.
They were colonial names that were changed to indigenous names. There was no argument, no protests when that occurred. When the majority of one province in one federation feels so strongly about an issue and has elected a party both on the provincial and the national level to make the change happen, who are you deny these rights? It's a name change not the construction of a dam or a royalty issue.
Under the modern sociological definition Sindh, Punjab are all ethnic names. Please don't even try that argument that Punjab stands for 5 rivers, because it is seen as an ethnic identity. Same applies to Sindh.
What do you say about Baluchistan? There are significant Pakhtuns in Baluchistan, the name itself stands for "The land of the Baluchis" yet there isn't a Pakhtun movement calling "to share" the name or some other nonsensical proposal mentioned on this thread.
yes lets just do that, majority rules. is pakistan ready for that? or are we going to be selective about where majorities rule?
the seraikis, hindko speaking and chitrali people should have rights to opt out.
the province system is a thorn in pakistan - it is a hand me down of the british empire. people who really believe in federalism or devolution should support the smaller units as its about power beign transferred to the people.
stupid people have stupid logic. :(
Why would you want to name another province base on ethnicity...to draw more ethnic tension in the country? Next you will see Seraiki will be demanding for their own province, Seraikistan, and then MQM will be asking for Jinnahpur, Hindko speaking will be asking for Hindkowanstan, Chitralis will be asking for Chitralistan??? Punjabi army with it's greater Punjab movement will be form their own country, Punjabistan. Hence, Pakistan will be split in 6-10 smaller countries. Is that what you want??? Gaddari aka Mr. 10% (Now 99%), doesn't care about Pakistan, he only cares about his pocket.
My suggestion is to remove the province system, keep the districts or split the province and create 15 smaller provinces. What you think?
61 years old and still can’t understand that if we don’t make drastic changes we will perish like countries before us.
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My suggestions:
* Unity, internal cohesion and political stability (“Internal cohesion and political stability are the products of a participatory political process that is broad-based, transparent and fair, offering equal opportunities to new aspirants to political power and influence.”) De-concentration of power to strengthening internal cohesion and moderating dissent.
* Social Justice and Equal Opportunity: Reform political and social life, promoting socio-economic justice for ordinary people as well as provincial rights & Economic development policies. Freedom from sectarianism
* Decentralization of Authority from Power to the People, Community-based Economics and Economic Justice
* Political party should focus that are important to people/provinces, for example water distribution among provinces, building of new dams for water storage and electricity generation, and demand for a new and more acceptable formula for distribution of taxes between the federal government and provinces.
* Respect for Diversity: In last 60 years Pakistan government hasn’t solved internal incoherence, they have alienated minorities like Balochi & Sindhi and Mohajir. Political Parties should work to promote harmony between different ethnic groups in Pakistan. I also think it is time to add FATA into complete Pakistani control which mean, local government should be develop, no more old style Jirga system.
* Improvement of Financial system on City, State and Country level, reduced corruption.
* Utilizing E-government technology, cut-overheard, developing new policies to improve over all political process. improved government office efficiency and administration.
Clean up FATA and NWFP from extremist (Taliban, Alqaida or local Jahil extermist).
No more 4 province/ Either the 15 province solution (FATA become part of Pakistan) presented by Pakistan think tank or 51 super districts solution.
Pakistani Education system, Improve school, college and university standard. More school and colleges in Village and small cities.Improve Urdu Medium schools. South Korean is #1 in the world in Education system Education in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Improve Madrassa curriculum [It should be based on South Africa madrassa curriculum}. I think our Madrassa curriculum should include Quran (Reading, writing and learning (memorization), Islamic History (also including Islamic contribution to Science, arts, and Islamic architecture), Fiqh, language art (Arabic, Urdu and English), Islam and contemporary Issues (Current Affairs and Developments). Natural Science, Social Sciences and Math.
Strong economic relationship with EU (Germany), Turkey, Iran, China and Russia (non-defense) and with GCC (UAE, Saudi Arabia). Economic project with ==>Iran (Auto, Mechanical/Engineering, civil aviation)
==>Multi-defense projects with Turkey, Germany, China and GCC.
Push for Free trade with GCC, EU & USA
We have already signed free trade agreement with Sri Lanka, we should keep working on SAARC and SAFTA.
Improve relationship with South Asian countries (economic and defense project with SriLanka)
MQM, PPP and PML-N need a new political leader/Party head. There should be no permanent party leader, party should select the leader ever 3 years term.
Introduction of New political system based on 4 parties (parties should be based on non-ethnic base but can be religious but no sipa-e-Sahabe kind of party)
(1)Pakistan National League (Mixture of PML parties)
(2)Islamic Democratic Party (Umbrella party to represent all Islamic groups in Pakistan)
(3)Pakistan Social Democratic Party (Combination of PPP, PPPP and MQM)
(4)Pakistan Awami Party or Pakistan People’s Movement or Awami National Party (Open to all Pakitani, Merger of Tehreek-e-Insaf and other smaller parties)
Other suggestions
*United National People’s Party
*National Socialist Party
*Republican unity party
*Invite other political parties to join MQM, For example, PPP, PPPP, Awami National Party, Green Party of Pakistan, Pakistan Awami Tehrik, Pakistan Democratic Party, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
*Government Political Science Institute for training new graduate from university (new generation of politician).
Development of Coastal Area, Sonmiani, Ormara, Pasni and gawader.
Further development of Sports like Rugby, Baseball, Football, Tennis, Martial Arts, Boxing in Pakistan
Sport in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We need to develop our own style of Martial Art and promote it in our country, for example, combination of Hosinshu, Silat, Lethwei, Karate and Taekwondo.
Local Sports channel to promote Sports in the country.
Re: NWFP to be renamed Pakhtoonkhwa: Zardari
lets rename it to Pakhtoonkhwa and move on.
Re: NWFP to be renamed Pakhtoonkhwa: Zardari
It doesn't matter if its named Pukhtunkhwa. I am 100 % for it. It hardly matters in my opinion.
The problem with which I am worried about is, till when will our pakhtun brothers be fooled by these leaders - first by the MMA hypocrite mullahs and now these ANP thieves. Instead of talking of something real, like development, education, most importantly putting out the fire in tribal areas and swat + stopping the downfall of pakhtuns as an ethnic group; all they (ANP) could do was to come up with such lolly pops.
Wake up people, naming of a province to pakhtunkhwa will fill some people's ego but it surely will not provide people bread and basics of life.
FATA has to be part of Pakistan, no more tribal BS. It is perfect time to take the tribal leader out of the equation. NO MORE FATA…Pakistani government should send a clear message to these Tribal leaders…either you are part of Pakistan or you are against Pakistan, it is the mater of our National Security.
Army/Paf should attack FATA if these tribal leader don’t listen to Pakistan government, relocate those civilians who are will to leave FATA. We can’t afford to have another Bangladesh (1971) kind of situation. This is exactly what Yank and India wants, to destabilize Pakistan. If we don’t take of this right now it will come back in 10 years and bit us in the … Are we will to lose another part of Pakistan?
Sure lets talk about Pekhawar:
modern Swat, Buner, etc., were occupied by tribes connected with India who appear to have been left un-molested. In the 10th century Peshawar came for-the first time under foreign yoke when Sabuktagin of Ghazni defeated Jaipal, the Hindu Prince of Lahore, near Laghman in Afghanistan and drove his armies across the Indus with great slaughter (978 A. D.). The conqueror took possession of all the country west of the Indus and left his Lieutenant Abu All as Governor of Peshawar with an army of 10,000 horses.In this campaign the Pathans sided with Sabuktagin and furnished soldiers to his army.
Is 10th century good enough for you? Also, this debunks your theory about Pakhtuns spreading to east of the Durand after conversion to Islam.
According to most historians Pashtuns were Hindus at the Mahmud of Ghaznavi. In fact Mahmud Ghaznavi masacarred a lot of Pashtuns (like Babur did) and it was never called Pakhtunkahwa by anyone.
This is from original sources by historians of that time (not farishta).
"Muslim historians Ibn Haukal, Utbi and Alberuni are unanimous in the view that uptill the time of Mahmud Ghaznavi i.e. almost four hundred years after the death of the Prophet, most of the Afghans were still non-Muslims. Mahmud Ghaznavi 'had to fight against the infidel Afghans in the Sulaiman mountains.' Even 200 years later in the encounter between Mohammad Ghori and Prithviraj in 1192 A.D., according to Farishta, Hindu/Buddhist/Animist/Pagan/Shamanist/Zoroastrian Afghans were fighting on the side of the Rajput Chief. "
Again from Alberuni, Ibn Haukal, Utbi:
"...the Ghilzais learning that the troops of Mahmud were returning to Ghazni in detachments laden with plunder laid wait for them in the mountain passes and succeeded in cutting off several of them They had imagined that winter being at hand operations against them would be delayed till the spring by which time they would be in safety in their haunts in the Ghor mountains northeast of Herat But they reckoned without Mahmud That prince hearing of the insult collected a small body of troops and pushing beyond Kandahar pursued the rebels without intermission The season was January 1010 The severity of the weather denied to the Ghilzais refuge in the mountains They were forced to descend into the plain There Mahmud attacked and slaughtered them Indeed he killed all on whom he could lay his sword A few families only succeeded in escaping into the more habitable recesses of the mountains For the moment for years to come they were utterly crushed ."
Timur Lame rules this area, Arghuns (Mongols) and Moghals ruled this area, so did Sikhs. No one called it 'Pakhtunkhawa'.
Re: NWFP to be renamed Pakhtoonkhwa: Zardari
coming out of hibernation, are we?
What do with do with karachi where A certain political party behaves above the law and almost treats Karachi as a separate country?