NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

[Ghost14]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

Do you guys expect NS to stop looting the country? I don't. The first order of business is going to be to go to the IMF for a big fat pay check that they can steal from. He's been part of a culture of corruption for decades, why would he stop now?

I agree with what someone said, let's see him pay some taxes first, then we'll see what he does. I don't think that dejected PTI fans should be as negative as they are, but I would rather see angry, passionate voters than disenfranchised voters. Again, they should tone down the rhetoric but NS does not deserve any benefit of the doubt. Given his past performance, the public should keep this administration under intense scrutiny.

[Hmmna]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@ehsan

The good for the country would start with NS paying all his taxes. How can he even ask others to be honest with their tax affairs when he himself is one of the biggest tax chor.

just wanted to repeat this point. how can he only pay 1000 rs tax for two years given his kabillions

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@GoldenAsif

Oh bhai you guys are also acting like kids. NS is the rightful winner but try and explain your logic to the candidates who have been affected by the rigging, who invested their time, money and energy in the election

I'm not a fan of NS & I would never vote for him or his party, but reality is that he won the elections that were probably most fair in history of the country. As for rigging, you do know there were number of PTI's places where votes casted were between 100 to 300%? So, this goes both ways. Btw, how many seats do you think would change hands if ECP orders reelection on seats that were allegedly rigged?

[Hmmna]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@GoldenAsif

This time I don't expect PML-N to repeat the same mistakes. They would be more diplomatic and flexible and they would do much better than the clueless PPP on the economic front

As always Punjab is the key (148 out of 272 NA seats). Can PTI or any other party incl. PPP penetrate the biradris/rural population significantly enough over the next 5 years to hurt PML-N, I am not too sure about that

GoldenAsif i read in an article when the reporter asked NS if he has learned from previous mistakes, he said that he has so much on his mind that he dsnt remember his mistakes. IMO that dsnt auger well for the country

[Hmmna]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@ehsan

Not sure about 2018, last time he won 2/3rd majority and the same people who voted for him were dancing and distributing mithai 3 years later when Musharraf took over. Talk about being fickle.

my goldfish has a better memory. one of my friends voted for him i said you remember what happened last time he came she didnt remember a thing.

[ehsan]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Shamraz_Khan

I'm not a fan of NS & I would never vote for him or his party, but reality is that he won the elections that were probably most fair in history of the country. As for rigging, you do know there were number of PTI's places where votes casted were between 100 to 300%? So, this goes both ways. Btw, how many seats do you think would change hands if ECP orders reelection on seats that were allegedly rigged?

Just an observation. The fairest elections in my opinion were the ones held in 1970. They were clean, fair and without any rigging.

[GoldenAsif]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Shamraz_Khan

I'm not a fan of NS & I would never vote for him or his party, but reality is that he won the elections that were probably most fair in history of the country. As for rigging, you do know there were number of PTI's places where votes casted were between 100 to 300%? So, this goes both ways. Btw, how many seats do you think would change hands if ECP orders reelection on seats that were allegedly rigged?

Why are you obsessed with PTI? Why can't people on this forum think objectively for a second?

All I am saying is in polling stations where the votes cast were > registered voters (139 stations) and where voter turnout was 100% (49), the ECP has a moral duty to reexamine (match thumb impressions, delete bogus or duplicate votes etc.) the results

whether anyone gains seats, loses seats or seats remain unchanged is besides the point

[GoldenAsif]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@ehsan

Just an observation. The fairest elections in my opinion were the ones held in 1970. They were clean, fair and without any rigging.

You're probably right there but rigging can be exposed more easily in today's information age by CCTV, by media and ordinary people (mobile cameras)

[GoldenAsif]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Ghost14

Do you guys expect NS to stop looting the country? I don't. The first order of business is going to be to go to the IMF for a big fat pay check that they can steal from. He's been part of a culture of corruption for decades, why would he stop now?

I agree with what someone said, let's see him pay some taxes first, then we'll see what he does. I don't think that dejected PTI fans should be as negative as they are, but I would rather see angry, passionate voters than disenfranchised voters. Again, they should tone down the rhetoric but NS does not deserve any benefit of the doubt. Given his past performance, the public should keep this administration under intense scrutiny.

The one thing this election has taught us is that dominance on social + electronic media does not necessarily win you a general election. Imran ran a fantastic campaign esp. during the last 3 weeks, literally burnt himself out (something like 64 jalsas in 2 weeks). Will he still have the same hunger & motivation in 5 year's time, let's wait & see.
**
Big Jalsas in big cities don't necessarily mean anything.** Not all people who attend IK's jalsas are necessarily from the same city. Some come just because he's a sporting hero, a celebrity. The population of Lahore is around 70 lacs for instance. even if say IK manages to pull a crowd of 2-3 lac people, most of them may not be from one constituency in Lahore (Lahore has 13 NA seats, Karachi has 20), some may have come from nearby areas of Sheikhupura or Gujranwala, some from even distant places like Rawal Pindi etc. just to see IK. A lot of them are youngsters (<20 years) who can't even vote

Personally I am surprised that IK failed to do well in Lahore (won just 1 out of the 13 NA seats) or to win a single seat from the seraiki belt after his huge jalsas in both Multan (even bigger than ZAB and BB's by most accounts) and Bahawalpur etc.

Biradrism and feudalism is the curse of our politics. Penetrating the biradris and breaking the traditional shackles is IK's biggest challenge over the next 5 years. This is where an election is won or lost in Pakistan

[Ghost14]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

^ Fully agree, which is why when I saw everyone being that optimistic on social media, I was surprised. I knew IK wasn't going to win, I was hoping that he would become the opposition leader and it looks like that's going to happen. If NS starts improving corruption and breaking up the feudalism politics, then I commend him. If not, then the country's going to get worse and the people have no one to blame but themselves.

[Sohaib]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

NS these days is certainly not the NS of old. Whether he is changed for good, its too early to say. He has certainly lost confidence that he had back in 1997. I think he is relying too much on his daughter and nephew's advice.

Anyways thats besides the point:

Rigging happend yes. Over all mandate was not affected. So why would some PMLN leaders act like sore losers and try to change the results overnight?

Ch Nisar lost in taxila: Went for numerous recounts and was granted every time
Ch Nisar lost in pindi na 52. Won after 4 recounts
Hina manzoor of PTI lost in NA 54 after winning on recount
Ch Nisar was beaten by Wasiq of PTI on provincial assembly seat and won after several recounts.

All these results were held back and changed no matter how many times.

What happened to Saad Rafique and Jahangir Tareen is well documented now.

We need to move past these rigging yes. But we also need to ensure that such practices stop! and do NOT happen in future.

[Aceones]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Hmmna

just wanted to repeat this point. how can he only pay 1000 rs tax for two years given his kabillions

not sure what’s your source that he paid only Rs 1000 tax for two years, but it looks bit unlikely
quick googling revealed this
link from 2013: What Nawaz Sharif has declared in his nomination form - thenews.com.pk
link from Dec 2011: Nawaz paid Rs2.5m, Shahbaz Rs5m in taxes – The Express Tribune

it shows RS 2million+ tax every year for last couple of years
again not sure how fake or real is this, but its in reputed newspapers

[Spock]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Aceones

again not sure how fake or real is this, but its in reputed newspapers

He heard from a 'friend' like all the other things he's been saying lol... PA sure has alot of newbies these days...

[Doppleganger]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@ehsan

Just an observation. The fairest elections in my opinion were the ones held in 1970. They were clean, fair and without any rigging.

2008 were fair, at least according to Hamid Mir compared to this time.

[Antumul_alona]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@ehsan

Just an observation. The fairest elections in my opinion were the ones held in 1970. They were clean, fair and without any rigging.

what a history of this country and its people…1970 would be believed to be fair, while the same fairness tore the country into two.

[Hmmna]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Aceones

not sure what's your source that he paid only Rs 1000 tax for two years, but it looks bit unlikely quick googling revealed this link from 2013: What Nawaz Sharif has declared in his nomination form - thenews.com.pk link from Dec 2011: Nawaz paid Rs2.5m, Shahbaz Rs5m in taxes – The Express Tribune

it shows RS 2million+ tax every year for last couple of years again not sure how fake or real is this, but its in reputed newspapers

I also read it in a newspaper article.

If the leader-in-waiting had also chosen to answer a charge of contempt of court by allowing a mob to storm the hearing and threaten the judges, that might be still more surprising.

If the fabulously wealthy politician in question had moreover declared that in a period of two years he paid $10 in income tax, you might be forgiven for believing that his rise to power must be a work of fiction.

Mr Sharif’s declaration that he paid $10 of income tax between 1994 and 1996 must be set against the fact that he stumped up another $60,000 in wealth tax. (What does that mean?)

still compared to his wealth 2million is paltry

also from your article he states chaudhry sugar mill as his only asset. Haha that's funny.

thanks for the links though.

[Antumul_alona]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@GoldenAsif

The one thing this election has taught us is that dominance on social + electronic media does not necessarily win you a general election. Imran ran a fantastic campaign esp. during the last 3 weeks, literally burnt himself out (something like 64 jalsas in 2 weeks). Will he still have the same hunger & motivation in 5 year's time, let's wait & see. ** Big Jalsas in big cities don't necessarily mean anything.** Not all people who attend IK's jalsas are necessarily from the same city. Some come just because he's a sporting hero, a celebrity. The population of Lahore is around 70 lacs for instance. even if say IK manages to pull a crowd of 2-3 lac people, most of them may not be from one constituency in Lahore (Lahore has 13 NA seats, Karachi has 20), some may have come from nearby areas of Sheikhupura or Gujranwala, some from even distant places like Rawal Pindi etc. just to see IK. A lot of them are youngsters (<20 years) who can't even vote

Personally I am surprised that IK failed to do well in Lahore (won just 1 out of the 13 NA seats) or to win a single seat from the seraiki belt after his huge jalsas in both Multan (even bigger than ZAB and BB's by most accounts) and Bahawalpur etc.

Biradrism and feudalism is the curse of our politics. Penetrating the biradris and breaking the traditional shackles is IK's biggest challenge over the next 5 years. This is where an election is won or lost in Pakistan

GA, actually I disagree with you regarding your root cause analysis. PTI's big social media presence and big jalsas got them the 30+ seats in NA (ok maybe more if there hadn't been rigging) and it also got them the KPK majority.
However they could have won more if they were a more active and tenured boots on the ground party which they are not. Inshallah this should be their starting point. We are praying that they remain sincere and focussed on their mandate. Lets see how the fare over the next five years.

If they work among the people in the next five years, they will improve upon their score of success in dismantling the feudalism/family culture.

[Aceones]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Antumul_alona

GA, actually I disagree with you regarding your root cause analysis. PTI's big social media presence and big jalsas got them the 30+ seats in NA (ok maybe more if there hadn't been rigging) and it also got them the KPK majority. However they could have won more if they were a more active and tenured boots on the ground party which they are not. Inshallah this should be their starting point. We are praying that they remain sincere and focussed on their mandate. Lets see how the fare over the next five years.

If they work among the people in the next five years, they will improve upon their score of success in dismantling the feudalism/family culture.

i think what got him majority in KP is his promise to "end violence, talking to taleban, no army operation and downing drones"
social media and jalsas on the other hand got him votes enough (mostly in urban areas, not talking about KP, thats different story as mentioned above) to be counted as 2nd largest party in this election in terms of vote counts

[GoldenAsif]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@Antumul_alona

GA, actually I disagree with you regarding your root cause analysis. PTI's big social media presence and big jalsas got them the 30+ seats in NA (ok maybe more if there hadn't been rigging) and it also got them the KPK majority. However they could have won more if they were a more active and tenured boots on the ground party which they are not. Inshallah this should be their starting point. We are praying that they remain sincere and focussed on their mandate. Lets see how the fare over the next five years.

If they work among the people in the next five years, they will improve upon their score of success in dismantling the feudalism/family culture.

That's true to an extent but I think PTI just wasted too much time on internal elections when they should have been carrying out a detailed survey of the different constituencies instead to try and field as strong a candidate as possible. After Imran's Lahore jalsa in 2011, NS apparently asked PML-N party intelligence to carry out an in-depth survey of all the constituencies in Punjab. Where it revealed that the party's candidate was weak they removed him/her and just went and bought the strongest candidate in that constituency. This is grassroots politics and this is what PTI should have focussed on. Sheikh Rashid had requested IK to do this but although IK was in favour of it, the rest of PTI leadership apparently showed no interest in it (as per Sheikh Rashid)

IK has his many positives. noone doubts his honesty, sincerity or patriotism or the fact that he has charisma, is well-educated and comes from a decent family but there are certain things where he needs to improve imo

1. Hopefully the most important lesson that IK has learned (it is a learning curve for everyone) from the whole election process is that in politics you cannot speak in absolute terms. You cannot be outright anti anything. Doesn't mean you lie to the public but you have to say things with tact. You have to show flexibility and pragmatism.

**- Drones: **Saying 'I would shoot down US drones' did not go down too well with the Pak military or the US ...'Our party is against drones in principle but if we do get in power, we would discuss the issue with all the political parties and the military leadership and then do what is in the best interests of the nation' is a more mature response. NS is also anti-US drones but he is not that blunt about anything in public.

• 'I won't make alliance with any parties' .... ab zaroorat pari na!! He needs the support of others in order to form a government in KP and again if he wants to become the opposition leader in the NA.

*2. * IK needs to tone down his language and refrain from personal attacks in future. Because he is so aggressive many PTIans are aggressive and abusive on social media which reflects badly on the whole party. Other party supporters incl. PML-N, MQM and PPP jiyalas etc. are no different but PTIans need to set a good example for others if they claim to want Jinnah's Pakistan. By all means criticise the policies, governance and performance of the government and various parties but refrain from personal attacks. Raising your bat in jalsas and saying I would hit Mian Sahib with it (mein Mian Sahib ki phenti lagaon ga) is not right. Such bad language hurt him in Punjab

3. Some of the things IK says are a bit childish. 'I will convert all Governor Houses and CM Houses into playgrounds or Universities'. Where would you live then? On the streets!!! Tackling corruption does not mean that those elected can't live in style or have to live like sh**. 'We would minimise the misuse of public funds and w'd cut down on our VVIP expenses and excesses' is a much better way of saying it

Will he have the same fire in his belly in 5 years's time?

[Antumul_alona]

Re: NS to IK: Let us work together for the good of the country

@GoldenAsif

That's true to an extent but I think PTI just wasted too much time on internal elections when they should have been carrying out a detailed survey of the different constituencies instead to try and field as strong a candidate as possible. After Imran's Lahore jalsa in 2011, NS apparently asked PML-N party intelligence to carry out an in-depth survey of all the constituencies in Punjab. Where it revealed that the party's candidate was weak they removed him/her and just went and bought the strongest candidate in that constituency. This is grassroots politics and this is what PTI should have focussed on. Sheikh Rashid had requested IK to do this but although IK was in favour of it, the rest of PTI leadership apparently showed no interest in it (as per Sheikh Rashid)

IK has his many positives. noone doubts his honesty, sincerity or patriotism or the fact that he has charisma, is well-educated and comes from a decent family but there are certain things where he needs to improve imo

1. Hopefully the most important lesson that IK has learned (it is a learning curve for everyone) from the whole election process is that in politics you cannot speak in absolute terms. You cannot be outright anti anything. Doesn't mean you lie to the public but you have to say things with tact. You have to show flexibility and pragmatism.

**- Drones: **Saying 'I would shoot down US drones' did not go down too well with the Pak military or the US ...'Our party is against drones in principle but if we do get in power, we would discuss the issue with all the political parties and the military leadership and do what is in the best interests of the nation' is a more mature response. NS is also anti-US drones but he is not that blunt about anything in public.

• 'I won't make alliance with any parties' .... ab zaroorat pari na!! He needs the support of others in order to form the government in KP and again if he wants to become the opposition leader in the NA.

*2. * IK needs to tone down his language and refrain from personal attacks in future. Because he is so aggressive many PTIans are aggressive and abusive on social media which reflects badly on the whole party. Other party supporters incl. PML-N, MQM and PPP jiyalas etc. are no different but PTIans need to set a good example for others if they claim to want Jinnah's Pakistan. By all means criticise the policies, governance and performance of the government and various parties but refrain from personal attacks. Raising your bat in jalsas and saying I would hit Mian Sahib with it (mein Mian Sahib ki phenti lagaon ga) is not right. Such bad language hurt him in Punjab

3. Some of the things IK says are a bit childish. 'I will convert all Governor Houses and CM Houses into playgrounds or Universities'. Where would you live then? On the streets!!! Tackling corruption does not mean that those elected can't live in style or have to live like sh**. 'We would minimise the misuse of public funds and w'd cut down on our VVIP expenses and excesses' is a much better way of saying it

agreed - they need grass roots work. Now the time of test begins! The real test has begun.