Amidst all that is wrong in the world today and is happening in the muslim world, frequently this horrific and embarrassing news appear that an immigrant muslim father killed his daughters over not wearing hijab or out of anger against her dating.
What are some of the solution/s, in your mind about this pressing issue, please share if you like. what can be done?
best,
Dushwari
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
EDUCATION, most of these FATHERS are not properly educated and no nothing about TRUE Islam, the same goes to so called Muslim Ullamah.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
Teaching people that they have no right to take another's life, for any reason.
Religion or religious education has nothing to do with it, unless you want to blame his actions on Islam, or even his perception of Islam.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
EDUCATION, most of these FATHERS are not properly educated and no nothing about TRUE Islam, the same goes to so called Muslim Ullamah.
I'd doubt the Ulema are the ones that tell the fathers to kill their daughters for not wearing hijab. And if such is the case, then they need to learn proper Islam too.
Teaching people that they have no right to take another's life, for any reason.
Religion or religious education has nothing to do with it, unless you want to blame his actions on Islam, or even his perception of Islam.
Actually by educating them about Islam, you are not blaming it on Islam but rather teaching them what you wrote in your first part. Even the Quran says that you that if you kill 1 soul unjustly, it is as if you killed humanity and if you save 1, it is as if you saved humanity. So yes, this does play a role.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
thanks folks.
i appreciate what you said: true knowledge of Islam must be understood and mens' perceptions as fathers are wrong.
You are right as you put so succinctly, K Khan and matineesiren.
Here is my reflection on this issue. (There are other points, as well, which at another time, I will share at another thread with a related topic.)
Just remember and note: how come mothers are silent. And they dont kill their daughters. It is always husbands and sons who do!
It goes to show, how helpless moms are, that they see their husbands and sons killing their daughters, and they cannot do anything against that crime.
... That is the mere value of a woman who is an obedient wife, and who gave birth to her son, her daughter is killed today by them.
That said, there are countless issues that underlie these murderous incidents:
Just, if we can answer this question: What father can do this to own daughter?
Unless the daughter has lost her mind and is disgracing her self. Even than, ethically and morally, she cannot be confined nor killed by the father, he has no right to do that to his daughter.
Thus, it is very essential and nothing else, that daughters are seen and protected as young growing women, their safety ensured, not by disallowing them the ability to choose, for their own safety set their OWN (not meaning slippery slope standards but this idea of self protection from bad boys and men should come in their minds without any induced fear through anger of fathers) self-respecting standards, which then, the females should follow to keep themselves wisely safe and parents satisfied, rather than being denied any room at all, to be interactive with the opposite gender.
Would parents rather have their daughters turning into hating men altogether, even good men because of lack of trust, fear and anger or prefer their daughters to be growing up as normal human beings who must be able to live happily.
The concern of parents is recognizable. They dont want a daughter seduced by a boy or a man.
But, they cannot reduce her life to fear. She should be able to go all over the country in confidence that she is safe and she should be able to go to school and to work and meet friends, help people along side other people, and get home safe.
I am not supporting dating (sleeping around with boys or wasting own time spending time with them).
Or implying that it is fine if girls or women see people, merely to shock their parents or defy modesty.
The fact is that dating is real among youth today, whether parents like it or not. Moreover, their own sons are party to it.
Perhaps, the concept of the word 'dating', needs to be aggrresively redefined. So that parents who have their own demons to fight, do not become agitated, since the word 'dating' connotes western origin and allied self disgracing or risking behaviors.
The age of growing children, boys and girls, being teenagers, is not the easiest either over all, that they can possibly be ducked in or down in the house.
For the development of young people, into strong and confident, honest and self respecting men and women, healthy social interaction between males and females is necessary.
Rather than ruthlessly killing own daughters, for the sake of fulfilling the demanded and expected silence and obedience which is based on double standards and hypocrisy, and enforced per force of fear and anger, it would help these sick parents to actually protect their daughters and nurture them to enable their daughters to grow up wiser by creating enough sense of right and wrong, in the minds of the boys and girls that beyond limits you don’t meet each other and then this will not happen.
To prevent the most damaging of personal family defamation that is presumed with a daughter's link with a boy or a man in an affair, eliminating life of own daughter is not the answer to the question, why is my daughter seeing a boy or a man?
Best buffer is how strongly that daughter takes on the work of protecting herself, while deciding to allow a boy or a man to be with her, as a male acquaintance or friend. And if it is leading to marriage than parents must see to it and honorably get the two married after their education is complete.
The most disheartening thing other than the senselessness of a father within the community who kills his daughter like over such a base argument as not wearing hijab or dating, is this: other people who know that muslim men are at times worse than men all over the world, will think to themselves and reflect it on all other muslim families and people that since they keep their daughters backward, that is why their men are on and about violating women from other races and that their daughters are in need of finding attention by whoever they date.
There is no dignity in the above, is there? What is rational about this?
So, whatever fathers and brothers are trying to vehemently preserve through their heinous crime of killing females out of displaced anger, is foreshadowed by the very logical stereotypes that the rest of the world holds about them.
Best,
Dushwari
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
Hum hein lajawab, you are right, absolutely. :>
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
Simple response would be; they leave their pind, but their pind never leaves their mind.
I think it is generalization and insult to where they come from. Not all people in village kill their daughters for not wearing niqab.
There is even bigger issue at play, why are they resorting to murder? Is there no other possiblity that things can be worked out?
We believe in honor and restoring it, but we should also respect life and its worth. Taking someone's life at such tender age does not mean they have killed a "would be monster". That person deserved another chance, that person derseves education, life and good advice. Redemption.
That person was innocent, to take that away citing any religion, caste, culture is rubbish. It is murder of innocent life, plain and simple.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
I'd doubt the Ulema are the ones that tell the fathers to kill their daughters for not wearing hijab. And if such is the case, then they need to learn proper Islam too.
Actually by educating them about Islam, you are not blaming it on Islam but rather teaching them what you wrote in your first part. Even the Quran says that you that if you kill 1 soul unjustly, it is as if you killed humanity and if you save 1, it is as if you saved humanity. So yes, this does play a role.
Of course, when you murder someone, you believe that you're in the right. Hence, he believed he killed her justly, at least when the action occurred.
The problem is perception. Religion does not save us from these problems, because everyone's perception differs, no matter how clear cut you view things.
Morals are not given by religion, they are merely warped or reinforced by religion. As a species, we must respect each other, and never dehumanize others, regardless of our differences. Religion does not save us from such ills, in fact, they often make them worse.
The often common factor in many of these tragedies is that the victim is female, and the perpetrator is supposedly Muslim.
We need to look at why patterns are repeated so often.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
^ I think you misunderstood my post completely. To clear my side, I am in no way supporting what he did and AM calling it nothing but gumrahi and jahalat. If you read the story, it says that the man killed his daughter because of Hijab. He killed her unjustly. Hence, Islam is involved and you clearly have to teach this man what islam really says. It is not religion that makes these ills worse but rather the person him/herself. That is why you see a black sheep in every community and every religion.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
parents first themselves understand what is ha'yaa (modesty) and then transfer it to their children (both gals and guys).
scarf is nothing more than a peace of fabric!
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
EDUCATION, most of these FATHERS are not properly educated and no nothing about TRUE Islam, the same goes to so called Muslim Ullamah.
yup i absolutely agree, it's education that they need
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
Of course some would have u believe that its better htey be killed now so that they don’t end up committing suicide later 
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
i concur. thanks everyone, for hopeful ideas that everybody shared.
our obligation as older generation and as educated women and men is to change this ugly reality, but creating spaces for children / growing youth, so that parents and community at large and the outside world can all get a healthy perspective of the safe and nurturing ways in which younger generation can be raised properly within Muslim families for their own good.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
^ I think you misunderstood my post completely. To clear my side, I am in no way supporting what he did and AM calling it nothing but gumrahi and jahalat. If you read the story, it says that the man killed his daughter because of Hijab. He killed her unjustly. Hence, Islam is involved and you clearly have to teach this man what islam really says. It is not religion that makes these ills worse but rather the person him/herself. That is why you see a black sheep in every community and every religion.
I guess I fail to see how religion will fix what was a crime motivated by one's perception of the same religion.
You can make it as black and white as you want, but people always view things based on their own subjective perceptions. What needs to be taught, is that murder is NEVER justified.
The problem here is misogyny and lack of morals. Morals aren't given to us by religion. If this man respected women, he wouldn't have murdered his daughter for doing something he considered immoral. If he had the moral code which stated that his rights end where another's' skin begins, he wouldn't have killed her. Simply being told that it's not ok to kill someone because Islam says it's not, doesn't take away the motivation.
As with any motivation, people can "slip up," and commit the act regardless of what their religion tells them. That's why we repent our many sins.
Condition people to rationalize their actions and have a moral code outside of religion, and such things won't happen. Religion can serve to guide us, but we are mortal, and thus, we're not perfect.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
matineeesiren,
i agree with what you are saying, but what hum hein la jawab is saying, if i am reading what he has written correctly, as i hope i do, is that people who do this, have to know that Islam is not going to support this acts of frustration of a father against all his unconcious or wrong conscious ideas about his daughter growing up. so fathers like that must be taught in the same language that they will understand. the language of religion, only this time spoken truthfully.
just an opinion and it is based on observation on youth from immigrant families: common sense would say, no one should make the religion so tight according to own dominance-oriented ideas of entitlement on impulse that in an instant a father grandly murders his daughter over such a thing as having spoken to a male counter part.
having a meal with someone as a class fellow as a colleague is not a sin.
greater responsibility lies with the young pair who chooses to be togther, and one of the reasons is that they like each other's company. everyone does that, no?
now while it is alright to put responsibility with the growing daughters as well, to be mindful of self respect and not waste their time with anyone who is out there to hurt them or misuse the females' presence, boys and men need to disrobe their double standards, basically.
what you are saying about having moral parameters, out side of religion may work in a situation as below:
it is alright or not, if someone, let's say, a male, invites few people at his place (or even home of his parents or his own if he is rich enough to own one at this age), at a get together of adult professionals and in the house of a 30 some yrs old male, a woman or a group of women stay through mid night among other men, i think the moral reponsibility lies on her/ all the women personally, in first deciding to go there in the company of men and other women, and then to get out of the host's place earlier, and know what the limits are in that for their (womens') own respect. men ought to do the same.
& if a relationship is probably and afoot for marriage, then it should be a long drawn out courtship where meeting at all the social events in good or bad company is necessary. it is not.
what is really of a bother to immigrant muslim parents, who are very strict and reserve, is this magnified worst outcome expectancy, that they believe will take place to their daughters. and they only look at that as an outcome. which is a wrong way to look.
all responsbile parents don’t trust the world. that may have some truth to it and that is all the more reason why parents must teach their children good values and skills to tell right person from a wrong person. but when the parents refuse to trust their daughters and disallow them reasonable space, that is where the problem lies. thus, parents are only panicked and looking at the bad examples of spoiled and truly bad kids. and they don’t want their kids to be like that.
a boy who is in trouble due to drinking and smoking and is not good in school and is after multiple females, during high school and college, is also an embarrassing issue with parents, but they don’t kill their sons. some sons could be regularly, unfortunately, violating someone’s daughters’ well-being but then these parents are quiet.
ever wonder why?
this is obvious, then they cant say that their religion Islam is teaching them to do so. and so, what else they have to fall back on, than to shut their own daughters because they don’t want other people’s sons violating their daughters. double standards, again.
is it fair to the sons to be whoever they want to be and to the daughters, at all?
another example of hypocrisy: if you have dirty dancing and implicit tease present in, for instance, indian dramas and films going on in your home's tv screens and viewed regularly by you and your family, and that is alright with you. but if you turn around and see your daughter sowing interest in learning and taking dance lessons, you are enthralled and aggravated, what is it? despicable double standards, right? & similarly, there are layers and layers of parenting misses due to which this terrible tragedy befalls, confused and perceptually and morally very frigid parents.
also the responsibility on the teenagers is that they must show through their actions and attire and way of being, and choice of music or where they want to socialize with their friends, including opposite gender, so that parents have an overall sense that out kids are not on the wrong track. clearly, things are wrong and they must be changed for better in each case one by one.
in a nut shell, if fathers have a good understanding of their daughters, they will trust them as they grow up. and they would pride in being fathers of self respecting daughters. they wont feel scared if their daughter is talking to a male her age, a little younger or older than her. that way, parents wont have to go to this extreme of killing. and the world wont have to witness this heinous act of a father against his own daughter/s.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
the prob can only be solved if both(parents & children) know islam correctly......
tht way..neither will do wrong..& no such situaion will arise..:)
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
absolutely true..., sara_87.
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
tolerance, patience, positive expectations, leading by example rather than setting rules, more communication, mutual respect and trust, quality time together.
If these things are lacking in a relationship, be it husband/wife, father/daughter or any, it does not matter which religion. nationality or ethnicity you belong to, the relationship is heading toward disaster
Re: Not covering head and face with hijab and niqab and dating
These fundo parents should pack up and head to Saudia or FATA if they think they can force kids to live differently than their friends.
If you live in America or Canada your kids will want to be like others. To what extent is the issue. If you want them to live "pure", then leave the land. Don't mess it up for fellow non-fundo Muslims by giving them a bad name.