Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
The last line could be reversed.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Ohioguy, I disagree - maybe it depends on the company you hang out with. I go to Pakistan, and I get ignored usually since I'm plain and simple looking (never walk into a fashion boutique wearing lawn prints, they wont look twice at you), but if they find out that I'm American - its all admiration all the way around. People break out with their wannabe-American accents to talk to me. Its kinda funny actually. And when I talk about how I like living in the US and no I'm not accused of being a terrorist while walking in the mall, they're all usually of the opinion that "Kash, Pakistan should become more like the US".
If you fail to see how much Pakistanis want to be like America because they see so many good things in our country, then you have gotta be blind.
I dont think being Anti-american is fashionable at all. If you rationally talk to people about their sentiments regarding America in Pakistan, you'll usually hear that "Americans are awesome people, and there is a lot of good in that country, but your foreign policy is too intrusionist. We dont like the idea that Americans are beginning to gain more control of property and governments in muslims countries. And we think that foreign policy might be allowing extremists to run some governments like in Saudia Arabia. But if they want oil, they'll sing a different tune".
So you see, like I said, its a power struggle. It has nothing to do with Islam. But somehow Islam is pulled into every discussion I hear or see regarding the relationship between the muslim world and the USA.
I sincerely wish the twin towers had not falled due to idiots who were hiding behind Islam as their excuse. But I also sincerely wish that people would see that these extremists are a slim minority, and that the war should be waged on them.
Also, Ohioguy, you fail to note the intense help that Pakistanis are giving the USA in trying to get ahold of extremist individuals who are involved in plotting violent acts against any innocents in the world. Long Live Musharraf.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
I dont think Muslim Queen is excusing anyone's behavior. Rather, she's saying what I am. Dont attribute extremist behavior and thinking to Islam. Because Islam is not extreme. It promotes a very balanced approach, which is healthy in a religion - and I dont see that factor in many other religions.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
^^MQ no sorry in Iraq it is Muslim killing Muslim. Just last night a Fatwa declared it ok to kill muslims.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
PCG forget the idiotic mullahs, I tried to tell the non-idiotic guppies a few things right from my favorite book of all times “Quran” and I was propmtly labeled a fitna and other names…
So is Islam (or forthat matter any religion) a bad thing NO, but people/fanatics practicing it word for word YES.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
PCG - I agree completely with what you say and you make a lot of great points.
There are some Muslims that do take some pretty extreme stances and to back up their viewpoints quote Islamic scripture (ie the quote that said people not Muslims are lesser people) to back up the view that other religions and people don't count in on way or another. This is taught to Muslims and reinforced, rightly or wrongly, all you need is a bad interpretation here and there and it is done.
I know that this is one of the things that get me in this forum and in world affairs.
That being said, OG, one of the reasons why the US is held as a scapegoat is to feed the masses an enemy to focus on. Not one person I have interacted with has any good to say about Pakistani politics and Mullahs (as a whole), but it's not changing because the enemy is the US and it's policies, never their own. It's a clever ploy used by different governments throughout history. Since we are visible and, as PCG stated, intrusive, it is easy to place the blame at our feet, more than easy now that the war in Iraq is percieved as a direct attack on Muslims.
Also, we may be tolerant here on our soil, but we definitely aren't in countries belonging to other peoples. That has been proved with history.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Where I stand I look down upon your kind.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
sigh, posted a page too late, why oh why can't I type faster
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Well now you can say they are not discriminating against non Muslims. Expected of you.
You dont have to “tell” anything from the Quran. It doesnt need to be told. Hardly. It needs to be brought to attention. Plus who labeled you a fitna (plus dont you mean they might have said you caused fitna, how can a person be a fitna? hmm anyway) At this moment I am willing to forget the threads you opened which held nothing but mockery in them.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Boy am i hurt?!?!
A novelist once said : Some people are often wrong, but never uncertain. They dig in deeper when their convictions are questioned.If they are actually disproved, they are entrenched for life.
OG i agree with you that such comments are intolerable, now think of Abu gharib prison and put yourself in position of prisoners.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Wise one, do yourself a favor and seach my comments on Abu Graib.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Yep, Abu Ghraib is a perfect example.
It goes both ways man, when there is war. That is why war is really bad and it should be avoided at all costs. Otherwise, all you have is a mass pile of human rights violations. Maybe that'll keep amnesty international busy, but that's about it.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
sighz this thread has taken no time in turning into a war zone in itself.
Power struggles - they pervade even the discussions on these forums. Everyone wants to be right - its when people are too sure of themselves that we get into fights for no reason.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
OG my problem isnt you, you are but one bloke.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
fun·da·men·tal·ism n.
A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
Is my claim that most followers of Islam are fundamentalists really my personal opinion?
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Yes it is. The majority of Muslims follow Islam as it is supposed to be followed. In a peaceful manner. In every race, every culture, every religion there exist the usual idiots. Rare and far in between - one would hope anyway.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
No where in the definition of fundamentalism does it say it is not peaceful and that is not what I am implying - that would be "extremist". If, as you say, the majority of Muslims follow Islam as it is supposed to be followed (i.e. following fundamental principles and by rigid adherence to those principles) then it is your opinion as well that majority are fundamentalists.
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Why label them with all those adjectives in the first place I might ask? I dont hear of Hindus or Christians or Jews being labelled as such. Whys Islam so popular eh?
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
Seminole to answer your question most Muslims aren’t fundamentalist. Most don’t adhere to their religion with rigidness; if you compare them to the followers of other religions they might appear so. In light of Islam itself however most of us are not adhering to fundamental principles .
Re: Nonmuslims who live to Irritate Muslims
an utter tragedy of inhumane proportions… little surprise however that we read of the US supplying the then Pakistani dictatorship with over $3 million in weapons after the onset of the genocide and, as reported in the Asian Tribune just this month, “the Nixon Administration [didn’t] pay much attention to Indian concerns about ‘the carnage in East Pakistan’”