Re: Non fasting muslims!
it is not about picking and choosing which aspects of islam one chooses, the point is that not doing it does not throw you out of islam.
there are many other things that are part and parcel of islam as well, i.e. equality for ethnicities and races, haqooq al ibaad.
by all means in no way shape or form am I saying that fasting is an option, its a farz, one needs to fast, but if they dont do it its between them and god, a person not fasting does zilch to me.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
I see more and more people in my work place not fasting!
Some of african nationalities,others Arab!
I think the trend of muslims not fasting is growing!
What?
I think you should forcibly enforce anything you can on anyone who remotely even resembles arab, not even muslim.
Then I'd say you should demolish their houses, because after all, the house gives those kaafirs refuge, plus its an idol of their worship to nothingness.
And finally, you can imprison and beat their family to make them come to the right path. Its the only way.
What?
Re: Non fasting muslims!
Interesting reading htis thread today....we have an all day training event today, facilitated by external colleagues, one of whom is muslim. The day is based at our office and we have lunch and tea/biscuits thrown in....the muslim trainer, is drinking and eating away...not even attempting to cover the fact that she isn't fasting (even if she has a valid reason not to) and she knows I'm muslim and fasting from the conversation and teh fact that I wear hijaab!...it's not just muslims you know who observe these things.................
My mum came up to stay last week, and she got the train...she is quite ill at the moment and is taking some very strong tablets, for which she must eat before and after to line her stomach otherwise she suffers a great deal...anyway, so she chose a pretty quite carriage and sat in her table seat....there was no muslims that she could see, just some goreh......so when she needed to, she opened her pre-prepared sandwich and was taking a bite....to which the gori lady sat the other side of the aisle said to her...."Excuse me, but aren't you supposed to be fasting"....luckily she understood when mum explained her predicament...but just makes you think!!!!
and how do you know that the trainer does not have a medical condition, maybe she is pregnant, maybe she is diabetic, maybe she has thyroid issues, maybe she has been ill. just like your mum.
Now it is a common courtesy to not eat or drink in front of someone who is fasting, but I suppose that would work in an all muslim setting, here you have other people eating and drinking in front of you, her doing the same has no impact.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
eh?Next time you have these uncontrollable urges to speak on His behalf, be a muslim and do the minimum courtesy of providing the source too.
waise, you might want to take it up with sister hareem1 here:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=5342544&postcount=32
Re: Non fasting muslims!
Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The ties of Islam and the principles of the religion are three, and whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever, and his blood becomes lawful: testifying that there is no god except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan." (Related by Abu Ya'la with a hassan chain.) Another narration states, "If anyone leaves one of them, by Allah he becomes an unbeliever and no voluntary deeds or recompense will be accepted from him, and his blood and wealth become lawful."
(Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)
Notice, the distinction in my earlier post... One who denies outright with his tongue that Fasting is not Fardh - this ruling applies to that person only...
One who does not fast but does not deny it being fardh is still a muslim....
Context :)
Re: Non fasting muslims!
Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The ties of Islam and the principles of the religion are three, and whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever, and his blood becomes lawful: testifying that there is no god except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan." (Related by Abu Ya'la with a hassan chain.) Another narration states, "If anyone leaves one of them, by Allah he becomes an unbeliever and no voluntary deeds or recompense will be accepted from him, and his blood and wealth become lawful."
(Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)
Notice, the distinction in my earlier post... One who denies outright with his tongue that Fasting is not Fardh - this ruling applies to that person only...
One who does not fast but does not deny it being fardh is still a muslim....
Context :)
The distinction seem to be entirely yours. You have interpreted "leaving obligatory prayers and fasting" as neither offering prayers and fasting nor believing in prayers and fasting. I would interpret not offering obligatory prayers and not fasting as leaving the prayers and fasting. What is worse anyway? knowing/believing something is wrong and still doing the wrong thing? or not knowing/believing that something is wrong and doing it?
By this Hadees, all non-believers (Kafirs) as well as those believers that do not offer obligatory prayers and/or do not fast (Munafiq?) are liable to be killed by the believers (Momin) and their possesions are fair game and bounty to the believers.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
AQ yar, kabhi bholay say kissi ko daira-e-islam maiN dakhil bhee kar liya karo. Nikalnay par tou sar charh dortay ho!
Re: Non fasting muslims!
khud nikal gaye ho bhai.. mera kiyaa qusoor..
go check with some scholar about what I am saying... prove me wrong on the distinction I am making... I will accept it as long as the daleel is strongly from the Quran and Sunnah.... and practice as approved by Prophet (SAW) and his companions (RA) according to the traditions.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
AQ, so lets see .. according to you, a person who on his own conviction does not believe in keeping a fast is 'out of Islam' and if he was unfortunately born Muslim, he is now a murtad, which according to popular belief is 'wajib-ul-katl'.
Why not just kill the man and be done with it!
Who does that remind me of ... oh yeah, Taliban!
Re: Non fasting muslims!
so you want to argue on some "popular belief" now because that's what seems to be the problem whereas that popular belief in itself can only be tried in an Islamic judiciary system provided the basis is of treason :)
now what?
Re: Non fasting muslims!
No I don't want to argue on some popular belief but maybe humbly point out to you that 'fita-parsad' have always used the term 'out of islam', actually their islam, for people who have either iklaki kamzori *or *imani kamzori. From Kharijites to ... well this thread.
What is a principle Islamic belief to you might not be to others. I believe shirk is the fundamental concept of Islam, now does that mean I can start taking people to an Islamic judiciary system who visit graves of peer and fakeers? By your logic we should.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
I was talking about "that" particular popular belief of murdering anyone that NO - the belief is wrong and such are the cases which have to go through the judiciary "provided" Treason is the case... I dunno man how you are interpretting and looking my words that you even misspelled things wrongly like "fitna parast" (which you refered to those who use term 'out of islam' so you were using it against me since I said such and such are out of islam... ) and "Akhalaaqi" ....
but help me understand how grave visitors can be tried for treason....? c'mon, make it up quickly.
I asked a proof from the Islamic jurisdiction to prove me wrong and all I am seeing are the usual crap of pointing fingers at the debater... :)
Re: Non fasting muslims!
Who cares?
Re: Non fasting muslims!
AQ, before I misinterpret your words again, let me ask you what exactly do you mean by 'out of Islam'? Is he a non-Muslim? Is he hell bound? What is his fate?
To clear things from my side, I actually consider fasting to be one of the pillars of Islam. And anyone not believing in it to be such either suffering from iklaki or imani kamzori'. But still very much a Muslim.
Re: Non fasting muslims!
There's a big difference between not fasting b/c you just dont want to, and not fasting b/c you dont' believe its really necessary. The latter IMO is alot worse.