"No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

He just doing what Est. want to do by a bloody civilian who can keep both side to side DEMONcracy and their interests.

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Re: “No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology”: Imran

This is what Ahmed Rashid who is considered an authority on taleban is saying. The same can be summed up for Pakistani side, once the Afghan war is over most of the reasons for the existence of TTP will also go away. Some of them are already tired and want to talk peace with Pakistani government now:

A deal with the Taliban is the only way out - FT.com

A deal with the Taliban is the only way out

By Ahmed Rashid

In an army of 150,000 US and Nato soldiers in Afghanistan, one rogue solider who massacres 16 civilians, including nine children, does not necessarily mean that the discipline and morale of the whole force is breaking down. However, when the spate of recent incidents is put together – US soldiers burning copies of the Koran, footage apparently showing US marines urinating on bodies of dead Taliban fighters and a series of accidental killings of civilians during US attacks on the Taliban – the situation looks far more grim. There can be no doubt that the western forces in Afghanistan are facing a crisis of confidence, across the Muslim world and also in their home countries.

The Afghan people are exhausted by a war that has gone on in one form or other since 1979, when most US soldiers now in Afghanistan were not even born. Increasing numbers of Afghans would agree with what the Taliban have been arguing for almost a decade: that the western presence in Afghanistan is prolonging the war, causing misery and bloodshed. The hundreds of civilians killed already this year across the country are almost forgotten now in the afteHigh quality global journalism requires investment.

Moreover, faced with an increasingly corrupt and incompetent government, Afghans are seeing fewer improvements on the ground. So-called “nation building” has ground to a halt, simple justice and rule of law is unobtainable and a third of the population is suffering from malnutrition. The people blame not just the Americans but equally Hamid Karzai and his inner circle, which gives him conflicting and contradictory advice, leading him to flip and flop on policy issues.

The Afghan president’s desire to seek a strategic partnership agreement with the US is becoming more and more unacceptable to the Afghan people. At the same time he also wants to make peace with the Taliban, but they have no desire for a pact with Washington. His dilemma, which he still refuses to understand, is that he can either ask for a long-term US presence or peace with the Taliban, but not both.

America is clearly also exhausted by the two wars it has waged in Iraq and Afghanistan – the latter becoming the longest war in US history. Officers and soldiers have done several tours of duty in both countries, while the wars themselves have been virtually ignored at home. Neither war has yielded the dividends that Washington once hoped for. Osama bin Laden may be dead but al-Qaeda’s beliefs have spread their net into many more countries since 2001, while the Taliban have proved to be far more resilient than western forces could conceive of a few years ago.

Yet the US military high command has been lobbying in Washington, insisting that some kind of victory in Afghanistan is still possible if only President Barack Obama would not withdraw so many troops so soon and if only Congress would keep the funding flowing. US generals have done their best to delay and undermine the still-weak hand played by the State Department in its efforts to get talks with the Taliban going. But now even the Republicans, many of whom have supported the military and condemned Mr Obama for daring to open talks with the Taliban, appear to be at a loss as to how to move forwards in Afghanistan.

After the spate of incidents this year, there should be no doubt in Washington that seeking a negotiated settlement to end the war with the Taliban as quickly as possible is the only way out. Mr Obama has to put his weight behind this strategy to ensure an orderly withdrawal and to give the Afghan people the chance of an end to this war. A power-sharing formula with the Taliban, which now appears increasingly unavoidable, and an accord with neighbouring states to limit their interference, will be key.

In 1989 it was America and Pakistan who refused to allow a political solution to end the fighting because they wanted not just the Soviets gone but also Moscow’s Afghan protégées led by Mohammad Najibullah. Instead he hung on for three years, resulting in a civil war. America cannot again leave Afghanistan with a civil war as its bequest to the Afghans. Washington, and Nato, must seek an end to the war before withdrawing their forces. Despite the tragic death of so many innocent children, this is still possible if there is a concerted diplomatic and political push.

The writer is author of several books about Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, most recently ‘Descent into Chaos’
rmath of the killing of children by a farengi, or foreigner.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Its one thing for the US to stop fighting with Taliban and leave. They can do that. Afghanistan isnt their problem once they leave. The Taliban in Pakistan and their offshoots are not leaving if Afghanistan war ends. They will still need to be dealt with. Also, much of the violence in the past 2-3 years has been caused by groups that predate the overthrow of the Taliban from Afghanistan, although even before the overthrow they always found a home in Afghanistan.

Equating the situation is simplistic.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

It will be interesting to see the terms on which Americans leave Afghanistan. Obama will not like to tell Americans that we have left the control of Afghanistan in the hands of Taliban. Washington is facing a Catch-22 and desperately looking for a face-saving exit. Obama knows that Afghanitan cannot be stabilize permanently, he also knows he cannot stay there for good. One day or the other, Taliban will have to be made the dominating partner in Afghan government, something that won't sell well in the US.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Equating the situation isn't as simple as you put it. The offshoots you are talking about were trained as gladiators and they will always need something to fight with. They need 'office space' which Pakistan has been providing and will continue to do so in exchange for peace while their fighters go about their business elsewhere. Frankly speaking, I do not see these offshoots going anywhere in foreseeable future.

And Afghan war isn't going to end with the exit of America. At the most, war theater will change and all the focus will shift to Afghanistan instead of sporadic action on Pakistani streets. It does not seem to be any different than a repeat of 90s.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

I think there is an element of technology in all this. Pre 2005, the attacks werent as deadly by these same groups. When Iraq had its bloodiest year, thats when these 'gladiators' acquired an appetite for bolder and bigger attacks and targets. The targets now are not all that different from the 90s. The methods have changed... suicide bombings instead of driveby shootings. I dont see that dynamic changing just because (some) of the groups will find Afghanistan a more attractive playground.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

and I believe I had condemned that when the news had surfaced, though the dangers faced by Pakistan from JD/TTP are different than by likes of Qadri but siding/supporting Qadri was bad move by IK/PTI.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

With Americans gone, drones being a thing of past and Kabul becoming the epicentre of power struggle, what exactly these 'offshoots' will want to achieve through wasting their resources on Pakistani streets?

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Re: “No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology”: Imran

**Pakistan ‘revising’ list of banned terror groups
**
• Malik invites terrorist groups, including Taliban, for peace talks
• Says banned organisations will be delisted if they ‘close down their militant wings’

ISLAMABAD: The government of Pakistan on Monday invited terrorist groups, including the Taliban, for peace talks and said banned organisations would be delisted if they “closed down their militant wings”.

“If the proscribed organisations assure us that they have closed down their militant wings and abandoned extremism, then we would like to meet them in next few days,” Interior Minister Rehman Malik told reporters.

“We have been contacted by several banned organisations that want to sit and talk. If they want to give up militancy, we will talk to them as we are revising the list of proscribed organisations,” Malik said. He did not identify any group but said that the government had “even offered the Taliban to give up militancy and join the federation”.

Daily Times

I believe Rahman Malik does not belong to PTI :hmmm:

But if this discussion isn’t about point-scoring and we could really talk about things with an unbiased approach, what Malik says is perfectly alright. If anyone is willing to lay down his weapons, he should be allowed to enter the mainstream of political and social life in Pakistan. And I guess Imran wasn’t talking any different.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

What they wanted in the 90s. What they wanted in Swat and Buner.

Like I said, what you term as offshoots are more like partners, and have an infrastructure predating 2002. Some of the groups might go to Kabul, although I dont know how many from Waziristan actually crossed the border to fight in Afghanistan in the 90s. The rest, stay here.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

With regards to ur last post.. we are having a similar discussion on two threads. Please go to the sticky one to see that I've already said we've been talking to Taliban for a long time. Discussing peace with an adversary is different from supporting the adversary and defending his actions. What Malik and GoP has been doing for a long time is what a police officer does when they offer terms to a criminal to come in. What Imran Khan is doing, and has been doing for a very long time, is make excuses for the criminal and make him out to be robin hood.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

How many of them were fighting with the state of Pakitsan in 90s and "predaing 2002"?

Yes they were partner before 2002. But if the state of Pakistan can take a U-turn, than there is nothing binding on the other party as well.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Well the Swat folks had a history dating back to the 70s. But groups like LeJ werent fighting Pakistan state, they sure were killing plenty of shias and ahmedies. Im sure that will continue.

However, like I said, reasonable people can disagree about how to deal with scum. What I have a problem with, when it comes to Imran Khan, is not that he advocates for talks/multipronged approaches etc. Its what he says about these people, time after time. I hesitate to personalize this, but as someone who has experienced trauma in the family from these defenders of Islam, I am not personally offended when the government tries non-military means to deal with the problem. I am offended when Imran Khan calls them resistance fighters, justifies their crimes and defends their ideology.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

We have been talking to them for a long time. And we have been fighting with them as well for a long time. Let us making things clear. You want to fight them off or talk them in? And if nothing of these has worked so far, what is the third option for you?

Imran Khan is neither a police officer nor the government to offer Taliban such baits. What he can do is to make ground for them to come back to mainstream from militancy.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

There's a difference between TTP, LJ and JUD etc. While the operations are being carried out against TTP, LJ is safe in its heartlands...

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

My friend, you are again confusing TTP with Taliban. Taliban ARE resistance fighters. They are fighting against intruders. Are Americans Afghan natives? Did Imran say TTP are resistance fighters?

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Since you are so impressed with US and Nato, please look at their approach for the problem. You do try to selectively break out the opposition, find people within the gruops you can work with, and fight only the ones who will not talk/give up the fight.

As far as it not working so far. Theres plenty of problems in the country that havent been fixed despite the government officially trying to fix it. We've been trying to become a welfare state for a long time, but theres still poverty and injustice. Doesnt mean we start calling the poor rich and the unjust just. That is what Imran does.

[quote]

Imran Khan is neither a police officer nor the government to offer Taliban such baits. What he can do is to make ground for them to come back to mainstream from militancy.
[/QUOTE]

Hes creating ground for them to come back into the mainstream eh? Its just a tactic then to lure them from their militancy to say nice things about them and defend them in the media after every damn bombing? Like the mother saying nice things about her son after hes raped a girl. Aray ghalti ho jati hai har ik sai, koi baat nahi, hum bhi aisay thai jawani mai. Nice strategy.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

JuD is different. LJ is now pretty much in coordination with TTP. The attack on Ahmadies in Lahore had contributions from TTP and LJ as far as I remember, and the attack on shias in Karachi was TTP.

Which insurgency in Pakistan was Imran Khan speaking of. He said that the uprising in Pakistan was fighting against occupation. If TTP isnt the Taliban he speaks on, which insurgency in Pakistan is conducted by Taliban? Who are they, please name some of the actions they've taken.

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Re: "No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology": Imran

Lashkar e Jhangvi is alive and kicking in Punjab, and it was always there regardless of the war on terror or not.

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Re: “No threat to Pakistan from Taliban ideology”: Imran

Thats my point. And they had a relationship with Taliban well before 2002. See here:

Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I remember back in late 90s when this guy was on the run tension between Afghanistan and Pakistan because they were sheltering people from his organization. TTP’s activities focused on minorities, and LJ, will continue regardless of the war.