PCG, no matter what you say, we all know you are anti-punjabi, a trait I have seen in most memons... You dont even spare PTV awards (which are a piece of you know what anywayz) and label them as being attempts to promote Punjab...
As for Mollahs, why do you have a problem with them? Wasnt it the people of NWFP that elected them in the first place?
Your anti-Punjabi hate monging will get you no where, and Mr. Imdad, you should read threads more carefully.
"PCG, no matter what you say, we all know you are anti-punjabi, a trait I have seen in most memons... "
How is this statement of yours not anti-memon? Let me share with the other guppies a little bit of your background since you decided to drag my background into this mess. You hail from a punjabi military family. I can see clearly your bias against memons in this statement of yours. I, on the other hand, never said its a punjabi trait to be anti-nonpunjabi. Quite the contrary, I blamed a strong preference BY PUNJABI POLITICIANS AND PUNJABI GOVERNMENT for promoting developement of Punjab AT THE EXPENSE of other provinces. The evidence is clear - otherwise why the hell is Balochistan so faaaar behind? Why is NWFP still stuck in the dark ages, with the exception of perhaps Peshawar. Why is interior sindh so friggin undeveloped? And dont tell me these areas are barren rock, cuz there are a lot of resources to be tapped into.
As for why I dislike the policies of NWFP, well, that's my opinion - you have a right to your own on NWFP's ban on music. If you think THAT is what is going to create progress in the province then good for you. Personally, I can't approve of it when others are boring holes in the canoes of others for their own personal egos and because they're inept at running a REAL government.
grrr - can someone help me unbold my passage above?
I support the Music on account of democrcy being the political force ushering in the MMA. The MMA, although a religious oriented coalition of political parties, never came into power by force they were voted in. Aren't all of you Pakistanis based in the democratic West hypocrites for calling the MMA's agenda wrong? They ran on a platform much like the Republicans of the US, Labor of the UK, they won through democratic means. The voters not only selected the poeple running for office but also their ideology. Take it out of the spin zone people, if any of you were actually residents of NWFP, you would be in the minority. To slander MMA before their term is over, is to call the votes of the majority of the residents of Sarhad wrong
Rajputfury - good point, however, the situation is analogous to - o say - back in the puritan days when witch hunts were in vogue and everyone was out to catch a "witch" and any woman who was pointed at was accused of being a witch with almost no proof. And, by the approval of the majority, she was burned at the stake.
Democracy is a great concept, but lets face it, out in the west there is no real democracy. Decisions are made after great debates and the voices of all parties involved are heard and petitions are made, etc. In this case, there was no debate scene, and as a result you see poor musicians who are trying to make a living going poor. Did anyone ask them for their input or to explain their art so that it could be decided if their music fell into sin? Was there even a debate over whether music is haraam or not, because in TRUE scholarly circles the debate is still going hot.
And then the issue of priority also comes in. NWFP is full of problems - problems that dont allow the average citizen to live like a human. Is banning music really going to solve much? They're getting lotsa aid! why aren't they using the money to feed people or provide education?
**Rajputfury - good point, however, the situation is analogous to - o say - back in the puritan days when witch hunts were in vogue and everyone was out to catch a “witch” and any woman who was pointed at was accused of being a witch with almost no proof. And, by the approval of the majority, she was burned at the stake. **
Pyari: I do see what your saying in regards to the majority being misguided, however I am more inclined to let this one run it’s course. Banning music will not result in people being burnt or dead (hopefully, those musicians will find alternate means of support). Music is a luxury, I know it’s something that is hard for me to admit as I absolutely love music, however it isn’t something that will not set you back in life.
**Democracy is a great concept, but lets face it, out in the west there is no real democracy. Decisions are made after great debates and the voices of all parties involved are heard and petitions are made, etc. In this case, there was no debate scene, and as a result you see poor musicians who are trying to make a living going poor. Did anyone ask them for their input or to explain their art so that it could be decided if their music fell into sin? Was there even a debate over whether music is haraam or not, because in TRUE scholarly circles the debate is still going hot. **
Right! I agree that there was no debate. However just taking the constrained definition of democracy:
de·moc·ra·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. Majority rule.
Just using those definitions, MMA has fit the democracy end, however the dialogue part is really lacking. Just to be realistic here, music in NWFP will not be dead..people will resort to “illicit” means of listening to it secretly or for live music, venues will shift to the other provinces of Pakistan or neighboring Afghanistan. The MMA came with a mandaate and let’s face it, we have let so many corrupt officials run the show, why not give these guys a chance?
And then the issue of priority also comes in. NWFP is full of problems - problems that dont allow the average citizen to live like a human. Is banning music really going to solve much? They’re getting lotsa aid! why aren’t they using the money to feed people or provide education?
Source: MMA Manifesto
It is up to the reader to believe in the MMA manifesto or not, however the facts are there. Only time will tell how much MMA can accomplish, I just hope that we can be more open-minded in letting them govern.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
*"PCG, no matter what you say, we all know you are anti-punjabi, a trait I have seen in most memons...** "
How is this statement of yours not anti-memon?
[/quote]
No need to mince words... Saying you people are anti-Punjabi makes me an enemy of the memons? How thougtful of you. Since many NWFP people are anti-punjabi as well, that makes me anti-NWFP huh? PCG, another full time bongi coming from you.
[quote]
Let me share with the other guppies a little bit of your background since you decided to drag my background into this mess. You hail from a punjabi military family.
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Oh, so now Im from the military? LOL Bechari military beech me kahaan se aagayi? This just proves how much you hate Punjab and its dominence in the military.
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I can see clearly your bias against memons in this statement of yours. I, on the other hand, never said its a punjabi trait to be anti-nonpunjabi.
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Its a well known fact they dont like Punjabis. Its nothing to do with hating them.
[quote]
Quite the contrary, I blamed a strong preference BY PUNJABI POLITICIANS AND PUNJABI GOVERNMENT for promoting developement of Punjab AT THE EXPENSE of other provinces. The evidence is clear - otherwise why the hell is Balochistan so faaaar behind? Why is NWFP still stuck in the dark ages, with the exception of perhaps Peshawar. Why is interior sindh so friggin undeveloped?
[/quote]
Is it your problem they chose to be stuck in the dark ages? They voted for the MMA, you can vote for the MQM or wheover you like. You should learn to respect their opinion. May I remind you that the people of Islamabad city (the most modern people of Pakistan) also voted for an MMA candidate this time?
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And dont tell me these areas are barren rock, cuz there are a lot of resources to be tapped into.
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Yeah, why dont you ask your enemies aka Punjabis to go and exploit these resources...
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As for why I dislike the policies of NWFP, well, that's my opinion - you have a right to your own on NWFP's ban on music.
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You dislike the policies of the NWFP and that implies you dislike whoever elected them. Unlike you, there are many in Pakistan who are sick and tired of the chamcha-pan Pakistan has showed to the US, and thats why they voted for the MMa.
[quote]
If you think THAT is what is going to create progress in the province then good for you. Personally, I can't approve of it when others are boring holes in the canoes of others for their own personal egos and because they're inept at running a REAL government.
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Dont worry, the MMA is not asking you (sitting half the globe away from Pakistan, knowing nothing what really goes on there) to boycott your nach-gaana. Let me add something here, since I am sure you have never even been to the NWFP. There were alot of cinemas there showing crap, and those idiots were so stuck up, they used to show indian movies during ramazan. The MMA put an end to this. Now to you this may sound as backwardness, but I prefer this over those tall hovering offensive cinema screens, most notable in peshawar (which you named an exception).
I have interacted with the people of NWFP, and I have seen they have some strong values in them, something which you and I cannot take from them.
I'm not arguing against their ban on the cinemas - I know very well the state of the pushto cinema (sad as it is) and what really goes on in those theatres - and that's great that they've banned it.
What I'm against is their ban on harmless entertainment like cultural music.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
I'm not arguing against their ban on the cinemas - I know very well the state of the pushto cinema (sad as it is) and what really goes on in those theatres - and that's great that they've banned it.
What I'm against is their ban on harmless entertainment like cultural music.
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Can you also explain my inclusion in the military please?
Typical ABCDs, when losing an argument, she conveniently enrolled me in the army ;)
Your anti-punjabi propoganda will get you no where.
woh tho aap ne mujhe PM mein likha tha - remember, the one where you were introducing yourself to me and providing me background on yourself. I am very sure it was you, since no other guppy has never landed such an idiotic "sho-shaw" before in my PM box.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
woh tho aap ne mujhe PM mein likha tha - remember, the one where you were introducing yourself to me and providing me background on yourself. I am very sure it was you, since no other guppy has never landed such an idiotic "sho-shaw" before in my PM box.
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No need to mince words. I never said I am in the military, thats another one of your lies. Btw, I never PMed you introducing myself and giving you my background. I just PMed you explaining I dont hate the memons. Apne aap ko itni importance mat do tum.
btw, You still have to answer my last post. Just merely saying you agree with the decision to close the cinemas is not enough.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Though I am not in favor of banning music outrightly but the problem is a local one in NWFP why people from across the border are so concerned..NWFP people have right to do whatever they like.. MMA's launch against pornography is commendable..
[/QUOTE]
I missed this excellent point...
when exactly did this thread turned into about PCG and anti-punjabi or wutever?
i thought we were talking about NWFP and its government??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
You dislike the policies of the NWFP and that implies you dislike whoever elected them. Unlike you, there are many in Pakistan who are sick and tired of the chamcha-pan Pakistan has showed to the US, and thats why they voted for the MMa.
Dont worry, the MMA is not asking you (sitting half the globe away from Pakistan, knowing nothing what really goes on there) to boycott your nach-gaana. Let me add something here, since I am sure you have never even been to the NWFP. There were alot of cinemas there showing crap, and those idiots were so stuck up, they used to show indian movies during ramazan. The MMA put an end to this. Now to you this may sound as backwardness, but I prefer this over those tall hovering offensive cinema screens, most notable in peshawar (which you named an exception).
[/QUOTE]
Spock: yara, I agree with the points on MMA. The cinemas in Pekhawar were notorious for showing pornography. Sarhad is a very conservative province and the fall of taliban along with the Pakistani government's behavior certainly helped MMA. But let's not make judgements on MMA. To call the leaders of the religious alliance idiots is to call the people idiots as well, since the majority voted for them in NWFP. Oh another reality check here: MMA won 11 seats in Sindh, 8 in Punjab, 14 in Baluchistan, so clearly they have roots in all of Pakistan. They are not racist or a secessionist party and have pledged to work for the improvement of Pakistan. Why are the MMA statements so hard to believe? Give them a chance..