Wajid Shamsul Haq ex Pakistan High Commissioner in his article has stated Yassar Arfat was the best friend of Pakistan. Wajid’s name came popular when it was revealed that the then Pakistan High Commissioner was instrumental in smuggling out of Pakistan the historical artifacts under diplomatic baggage. Pakistan Embassies are famous in such sorts of dealings. And story did not appear strange. However when Wajid’s side of story came and with that Government of Nawaz and Musharraf could not prove anything against Asif Zardari I started thinking good about Wajid Shamsul Haq. But reading his latest that Yasar Araf was Pakistan’s best friend all of a sudden all my respect for Wajid has disappeared in thin air. I have remained for 17 years in U.A.E and I found the worst if anyone hates Pakistan and Pakistanis were the Palestinians. I found many even Indian Hindus very fine and having no hate whatsoever against Pakistanis and had good friendship. Even Jews businessmen had friendly nice relations with Pakistanis there. If any one hated Pakistan the most these were Palestinian and secondly Lebananese and finally Egyptians. Yasar Arfat never supported Pakistan in any forum. He openly supported India saying India was his big brother. For a while he liked Pakistani leadership but only when it was Bhuttos. He had disliked Pakistan form the time General Zia did not accept Yasar’s recommendation to spare Zulfiqar Bhutto. In my 17 years service abroad it is my belief Pakistan’s all sufferings are due to its foolish and unnecessary support for Palestinians. We have unnecessarily made Isreal an enemy whereas Palestinians and Arabs themselves have created diplomatic relations directly or indirectly with Israel and are doing business mostly with Israeli companies. Yasar made agreement with Israel and did not for a minute take Pakistani into confidence rather he consulted his big brother India. And we have made Israel and its supporters our enemy. If we recognize Israel today which is a truth today, many of our problems can go away. Writers like Wajid Shamful Haq who write that Araft was big friend of Pakistan and writer like Hamid Mir who write that Arabs dislike India and do not employ Indians now since India made defence pacts with Israel, are in fact the real enemies of Pakistan who write such foolish things over a glass of red wine sitting in their homes.
Re: No Palistian is ever Pakistan’s friend
Bravo, 
, the man has figured out the reason of our sufferings.
the love triangle of religious nations
perhaps the subtext of this love-hate triangle between India Pak and Palestine is that Pakistan's support for Palestinian cause is at the cost of the main rationale for Pakistan's own existence.
If Palestine ever becomes a reality then why would it be so wrong for hundreds and millions of hindus and sikhs to claim their ancestrol lands back from the current occupiers of those lands? The land in question in this case is what is now called Pakistan.
Both Pakistan and Israel share 1 common ideology. Both nations were created in the name of religion exclusively for a religious minority. A religious minority which REFUSES and REFUSED to live with the indiginous religious majority and wanted their own piece of land.
In the case of Pak/India it was the muslim minority which said we dont want to live with the hindu majority.
In the case of Pal/Israel it is the jewish minority which says that we dont want to live with the arab majority.
our problems can go away after recognizing israel?
hmm, that didnt seem to work for egypt. they still have to lick american boots every year to get 2 bill in aid....and even then their economy is sinking like a rock.
if our scholars are thinking like that, then i m just scared to think how our lay people are thinking.,...
Daas, you are so wrong. We the muslims in India have been there for long time and hence deserve every right for our own state. We act, talk, walk like Indians.
The jews of Israel unwelcomely immigrated from Europe in early 1900's to Palestine. They weren't even born in Palestine and thus basically stole the land.
this land is my land
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Confusedominator: *
Daas, you are so wrong. We the muslims in India have been there for long time and hence deserve every right for our own state. We act, talk, walk like Indians.
The jews of Israel unwelcomely immigrated from Europe in early 1900's to Palestine. They weren't even born in Palestine and thus basically stole the land.
[/QUOTE]
I know a few israelis who were born and raised in israel. Their children were born and are being raised in israel.
Are these 2nd and 3rd generation israelis like you now ? Could they now claim the land they were born and raised in as theirs ? Where does that leave the palestinians ?
As fas as I remember my history, Muslims came to India as foriegn invaders too. In fact the arrival of muslims in India is enormouldy more bloody and violent then anything jews have done to palestinians.
this is how islam started
Bin Qasim was successful, rapidly taking all of Sindh and moving into southern Punjab up to Multan. The forces of Muhammad bin Qasim defeated Raja Dahar, and took his daughters captive (they were sent to Damascus). The raiders demolished temples, shattered “idolatorous” artwork and killed many men (it took three days to slaughter all the inhabitants of the city of Debal) enslaving the women and children. On his arrival at the town of Brahminabad he massacred between 6,000 and 16,000 men.
Perhaps you could ask yourself why the Palestinians hate you guys so much?
Ever heard of Black September?
Oh a "terrorist" organisation you'll say. Ok, but what does Black September stand for? Do you know that? Ever heard of the battle of Karameh?
How about this, after the 1967 war, with the Arab armies smashed, the Israelis decided to attack the last remaining Palestinian fighters.
These fighters were in the Jordanian town of karameh, when Israel invaded with the usual panopaly of tanks, fighters, thousands of troops etc. As usual, they expected the usual victory.
What happened next was incredible. Less than two thousand Palestinians, Arafat's famous Fatah fighters, beat the Israelis after days of fighting - badly enough that for the first time the Israelis withdrew leaving their dead and wounded behind.
That battle electrified the Arab world - and still remains the only Arab victory in a straight battle with the Israelis. You will still find images with fatah fighters dancing on burning Israeli tanks.
It was after that battle, that Arafat became the undisputed leader of Palestinians and took over the PLO.
(The PLO was not started by Arafat. It was started by Nasser).
So what happened next? The usual betrayal. The Jordanian King, being just another Arab ruler, decided to kill the Palestinians and Arafat because he thought they were to powerful.
But what does this have to do with Pakistan and Palestinain hatred for your'll?
Well, the Jordanians couldn't trust their own Army to do this. So they brought in a Pakistani Brigadier and his troops.
That Brigadier's name was Zia ul-Haq.
And the massacre happened. Thousands died. The massacre took place in September. Hence the words "Black September".
It represents the time of betrayal and blood. And note, the blood could not have been shed without the Pakistanis. The Jordanians thmselves couldn't and wouldn't do it.
Remember that red sash that your dear General-President used to wear every where? Palestiians do. Because it was given to him by the King of Jordan for that massacre and driving Palestinians out.
So perhaps you could spare the cries of "why do they hate us". You sound like an American wondering why the people in Iraq don't love them.
Re: this land is my land
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
I know a few israelis who were born and raised in israel. Their children were born and are being raised in israel.
Are these 2nd and 3rd generation israelis like you now ? Could they now claim the land they were born and raised in as theirs ? Where does that leave the palestinians ?
As fas as I remember my history, Muslims came to India as foriegn invaders too. In fact the arrival of muslims in India is enormouldy more bloody and violent then anything jews have done to palestinians.
[/QUOTE]
It was better treatment than what the untouchables and women received under Hinduism...
And BTW...Where is your proof that Muslims did any atrocity in India? The Mughals were powerful enough to annihilate the Hindu population...
Re: Re: this land is my land
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
It was better treatment than what the untouchables and women received under Hinduism...
And BTW...Where is your proof that Muslims did any atrocity in India? The Mughals were powerful enough to annihilate the Hindu population...
[/QUOTE]
It is astonishing how you guys so easily create your own version of history despite its contradiction of documented account by virtually every single Western and Indian historian. simply amazing. But by all means, continue to live in your fantasy world ignoring the obvious, it really makes no difference.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kyle: *
Perhaps you could ask yourself why the Palestinians hate you guys so much?
Ever heard of Black September?
.....
[/QUOTE]
Oh Pulleez!
Save us from this Mullahtic idiotic mish-mash ranting. You say 2000 Palis defeated Israeli tanks, fighters, thousands of troops etc. Then you give us the baloney that Pakistanis soldiers with no tanks massacred the same Palis?
So the Palis lost all their will when they saw Pakistani Giant the Ziaulhaq and allowed a non-arab group to massacre them? What hogwash!
Seems like you just got out of Mullahtic Mad-Russah after being abused for 15 years by all the Qarees there.
The reality is that Palis and Syrians attacked Jordanian army in order to take over the whole Jordan. Why? Palis and Syrians were the Commie supporters while Jordan was pro-West.
Pakistan being pro-West supported Jordanian army thus beating the crap out Commie-lackeys. Had it not for Pakistanis, the Jordanian army would have been cut off by Syrians in the North and Palis from the South.
It was a declared war by both Syrians and Palis on the state of Jordan. Thanks to the bravery and tactics of Pakistani troops Jordan was saved from becoming Lebanon.
Go tell this crap to the commies and the Mullahtic idiotics and they will lap it up.
Re: Re: this land is my land
That’s ridiculous!! Even the British with “guns” and modern machinery had to take over India with connivance and turning local rulers against each other. They could not take it over by pure force. Similarly, they could not take over China by pure force. The population is just too high. That’s why they tried to weaken the Chinese with the opium trade. But they were still unsuccessful in China’s case because it was ruled by one emperor. India, at that time, was separated into a bunch of small kingdoms and was easier to overtake.
But, you’re expecting everyone to believe that a minority Mughal Army without guns but only “swords” could annihilate the Hindu population (i.e. the whole native population of India at that time since Islam came with the Mughals)? 
C’mon, the Mughals also had made treaties with corrupt Hindu rulers to stay in power.
BTW, is there anything that Zia has done that is good for Pakistan? That guy is responsible for all the crap that is happening to us now. He sent the country to the gutters.
Re: this land is my land
Majoirty of present day Indian/Paki Muslims are of indigenous Indian/Hindu stock, even those who claim Middle Eastern descent have more native blood in them than Arab so we had every right to a country of our own in the Subcontinent.
Heck even if we are foreigners we still have more rights than you over India coz we’re Musalmans, the best of mankind.
Cheen-o-Arab hamara, Hindustan hamara, Muslim hain hum, watan hai sara jahan hamara.. 
Re: Re: this land is my land
jews are also indiginous to the land which is today being fought for. Just because they got kicked around the world for 2.5K years and a lot of them became white-skinned does not mean that they are not from the same stock as the palestinians.
Both jews and palestinians are semites, they are from the same gene pool, same race and natives of the same land.
Don't give me your 'Islam was spread trough sword' bull ****. No one can convert any one through force. Today muslims every where are fighting for Islam. Islam was spread and continues to spread because it makes sense.
[QUOTE]
I know a few israelis who were born and raised in israel. Their children were born and are being raised in israel.
[/QUOTE]
Whats wrong is wrong. Israeli's should never have immigrated to Palestine in the first place. And NO, jews are not SEMITIC, they are european.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Confusedominator: *
And NO, jews are not SEMITIC, they are european.
[/QUOTE]
...and next you will tell me that you are mel gibson
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Confusedominator: *
Islam was spread and continues to spread because it makes sense.
[/QUOTE]
"your" kind of islam makes as much sense to non-muslims as geneva convention to al gonzalez...go figure.
Re: the love triangle of religious nations
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
perhaps the subtext of this love-hate triangle between India Pak and Palestine is that Pakistan's support for Palestinian cause is at the cost of the main rationale for Pakistan's own existence.
If Palestine ever becomes a reality then why would it be so wrong for hundreds and millions of hindus and sikhs to claim their ancestrol lands back from the current occupiers of those lands? The land in question in this case is what is now called Pakistan.
Both Pakistan and Israel share 1 common ideology. Both nations were created in the name of religion exclusively for a religious minority. A religious minority which REFUSES and REFUSED to live with the indiginous religious majority and wanted their own piece of land.
In the case of Pak/India it was the muslim minority which said we dont want to live with the hindu majority.
In the case of Pal/Israel it is the jewish minority which says that we dont want to live with the arab majority.
[/QUOTE]
actually you're quite wrong. Israel and nationalist Hindus share the same idealogy. those who wish to drive out Muslims because it used to be a Hindu area centuries ago are essentially mimicing the jews who wish to drive out Pals because of a centuries old association. in both cases the claim is based on the fact that centuries ago, the land used to be a hindu/jewish area, and now they wish to ethnically cleanse the current native population for getting their ancient country back.
the part in bold assumes that the entirety of Muslims is foreign which is laughable. Unless you're implying that we are all turks and arabs and the cultural similarities with india are because our turkish ancestors figured punjabi is so much sweeter a language, you would have to agree that we're mostly ethnically indigenous people who just chose the right religion.
typical hit and run attacks 
Antiobl:
Nice name. Does it save you from being profiled? Do you think if you shriek it loud enough it'll save you from Gitmo? Good luck.
Just a couple of points:
I am not one of you muslims.
Google is your friend. For example:
*Then you give us the baloney that Pakistanis soldiers with no tanks massacred the same Palis? *
No. Pakistanis are not famous for fighting other armies. Slaughtering women and children while their men folk and most of the fighters were facing another enemy is their style.
*Save us from this Mullahtic idiotic mish-mash ranting. *
errm, isn't that what the west is currently trying to do after the Pakistani Army, lacking the courage to take to the field against the Indians and fight for Kashmir honourably, took to supporting terrorists instead?
So that now, thanks to the lovely persuasive powers of the serried ranks of US bombers, you brave army is now trying to shoot their own illegitmately born children - the Jihadis?
*Pakistan being pro-West *
Is that what they call it these days when all the Pak Generals chorus in tune: "Yes massah, at once massah, three bags full of dead Jihadis here massah". LOL!
Go tell this crap to the commies and the Mullahtic idiotics and they will lap it up.
err . . . Isn't your Zia the great hero of all your mullahs? Why would they lap it up? They, like you, refuse to believe it.
Look forward to you frothing at the mouth some more. Quite amusing.