Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
If they are burden on healthcare and education than they are problem. Let's igonre what they do for America with their low wages. Moreover, how many of these 12 million will become citizen, lets say over 8 million. Pretty good figure. So if that happens means Americans can change their tune about illegals?
It seems that they are problem for America until further notice by Congress, which will happen if not before 2009.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
If they are burden on healthcare and education than they are problem. Let's igonre what they do for America with their low wages.
fine man increase the wages, if that means additional costs for consumers that is fine by me, because there one has a choice, but when you are in a district..and btw school districts are rather large, and u are in a district where u have many illegals not paying taxes, then taxpayers are funding their children's education. same goes for healthcare, the burden on emergency rooms is enormous as well as for county and state health services.
I would rather pay more for a damn watermelon or meal at a restaurant then see situations where illegals kids have the luxury of smaller class sizes with bilingual instructors..often imported from spain..versus the kids of tax payers who are in larger classrooms because they speak english.
Moreover, how many of these 12 million will become citizen, lets say over 8 million. Pretty good figure. So if that happens means Americans can change their tune about illegals?
nope, the tune with illegals need to get tougher if anything. if 8 million become legal thorugh some amnesty and are paying taxes and go thru finger printing, health and background checks and all that which law abiding folks who went thru the immigration process went thru, thats fine. but then what do you propose be done by illegals that come in after that? rigjht now the excuse is that there is no path to residency (hogwash to a great extent btw)...well if there is a path to residency and people dont follow it, then what. would we still have bleeding hearts for them?
It seems that they are problem for America until further notice by Congress, which will happen if not before 2009.
if they go through the right process, and they pay taxes like everyone else, then they may cease to be a problem, oh and they need to do a better job of integration.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
Mamaof3,
that must be how men perceive a caucasian woman.
in other womens' case, it doe snot matter who one is - white or black or latino or chinese or indian or arabic woman.
this is where wmen must have a sense of solidarity regardless of being immigrant or native of a host country or a country where occupation is forces like US has done in Iraq and Afghanistan, like Israel has in Palestine, like Colonial Britain has in Africa and like India has in Kashmir or like US again has in Latin America.
Dushwari
I dont get it....
whats the difference between a "muslim gori" and a "complete gori"?
and where would a gori-learning-about-Islaam-but-not yet-converted fit in?
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
I would rather pay more for a damn watermelon or meal at a restaurant then see situations where illegals kids have the luxury of smaller class sizes with bilingual instructors..often imported from spain..versus the kids of tax payers who are in larger classrooms because they speak english.
Now bilingual education is not enough - here a local school district has converted 2 elementary schools to spanish-language immersion schools. That's right - the entire curriculum is caught in Spanish! This district can't afford air-conditioning and remodelling in their older buildings, but they can pay premium salaries to bilingual teachers.
I do not support illegal immigrants being given access to ANY social services, and that includes their children as well. In this state, they are entitled to pay in-state tuition rates. My own niece, who had a valid student visa, payed premium international tuition. They are a burden on the healthcare system, they are a burden on the educational system, and they are an even greater burden on the justice system.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
X2 and Amana, I do completely agree with you. Yet, in my area there is a large enclave of mexicanos. They are at least 50 percent "illegals" but are SUCH hard workers. They've been horribly mistreated, to the point that they sued - and won - a discrimination suit against the town.
I pay taxes, they do not. I pay to the tune of close to 1500 a month. But I cant bring myself to help pass laws that would deny them health care or schooling. Bleeding liberal that I am in some ways, I'd also hate to see them shipped back from whence they came. Because no matter how badly they're treated HERE, things are so much worse for them THERE.
Its a tough thing, there ARE laws to be followed. But I DO understand desperation and doing the absolute best that you can for your family. And Inshallah, God/Allah IS merciful yeah? So we should be too.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
fine man increase the wages, if that means additional costs for consumers that is fine by me, because there one has a choice, but when you are in a district..and btw school districts are rather large, and u are in a district where u have many illegals not paying taxes, then taxpayers are funding their children's education. same goes for healthcare, the burden on emergency rooms is enormous as well as for county and state health services.
I would rather pay more for a damn watermelon or meal at a restaurant then see situations where illegals kids have the luxury of smaller class sizes with bilingual instructors..often imported from spain..versus the kids of tax payers who are in larger classrooms because they speak english.
nope, the tune with illegals need to get tougher if anything. if 8 million become legal thorugh some amnesty and are paying taxes and go thru finger printing, health and background checks and all that which law abiding folks who went thru the immigration process went thru, thats fine. but then what do you propose be done by illegals that come in after that? rigjht now the excuse is that there is no path to residency (hogwash to a great extent btw)...well if there is a path to residency and people dont follow it, then what. would we still have bleeding hearts for them?
if they go through the right process, and they pay taxes like everyone else, then they may cease to be a problem, oh and they need to do a better job of integration.
You are addressing the wrong crowd. Illegals are not to be fault rather government. If the problem exists it is because of them and if the problem continues it is because of them. Making illegals the case of burden on schools and hopitals just shows how much one is clutching to straws. American schools have been doing very badly due to policies rather individuals. Its easy to find scape goats, espeically ones that have no voice what so ever.
To think that these illegals will not pay taxes if given the opportunity will not abide by the rules if given opportunity will not go through the right process...are same talking points that have no meat on it.
Who was the first person to die in Iraq? do you know that?
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
X2 and Amana, I do completely agree with you. Yet, in my area there is a large enclave of mexicanos. They are at least 50 percent "illegals" but are SUCH hard workers. They've been horribly mistreated, to the point that they sued - and won - a discrimination suit against the town.
I pay taxes, they do not. I pay to the tune of close to 1500 a month. But I cant bring myself to help pass laws that would deny them health care or schooling. Bleeding liberal that I am in some ways, I'd also hate to see them shipped back from whence they came. Because no matter how badly they're treated HERE, things are so much worse for them THERE.
Its a tough thing, there ARE laws to be followed. But I DO understand desperation and doing the absolute best that you can for your family. And Inshallah, God/Allah IS merciful yeah? So we should be too.
I am fine with that mamaof 3, but they need ti have the same sort of background checks, health checks and all that law abiding immigrants had to go through. they need to pay fines and they need to start paying taxes, not as citizens mind you, but as temporary workers .. just like countless H1 workers do, and then they need to earn the right to stay here. I am fine with that.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
You are addressing the wrong crowd. Illegals are not to be fault rather government. If the problem exists it is because of them and if the problem continues it is because of them. Making illegals the case of burden on schools and hopitals just shows how much one is clutching to straws. American schools have been doing very badly due to policies rather individuals. Its easy to find scape goats, espeically ones that have no voice what so ever.
To think that these illegals will not pay taxes if given the opportunity will not abide by the rules if given opportunity will not go through the right process...are same talking points that have no meat on it.
Who was the first person to die in Iraq? do you know that?
The first person to die in iraq, lemme guess, an Iraqi..
no one is clutching to straws, when you buy a house and see how you are paying real estate taxes which keep going up because school districts need more money, then you will know.
willingness to pay taxes is not the only pre requisite for someone to become a legal resident, otherwise half of pakistan would be here. do you know how long ppl who are going thru legal immigration process have to wait? oh yeah it deoends on countries but how does 10 years strike you, or 15 years. that is the way it is.
Laws are here for a reason, and one has to follow the laws until they are changed.
I have zero problem with having a temporary worker program which allows workers from across the border to come over, actually it should then be open to everyone because mexican are not the only hard workign ppl, ppl in africa would give their left nut to be here.
so sure, open the program to all nationalities for a temporary worker program, with rules around how and when can someone possibly become a resident and then a citizen.
although I am sure that ppl would still break the law, just like desis do when they come here on student vis, work illegally and slip, and then complained when they were picked up due to having to register after 9/11.
lets be fair here, problem exisst because the govt has not done much about it AND because there are these ppl coming in illegally, and having a holier than thou approach as if they are owed something. They are owed diddly squat.
Peopel can make as many excuses as they want for "illegal" immigration and "illegal" immigrants, causes, justifications, whatever..it does not change the fact that they are "illegal"
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
I think that most people don't fully comprehend the scale of this problem, or the financial ramifications. When your children are in school, they will have less access to services that they need because someone who is not even here legally and can't speak the language has needs that outweighs those of your child. Special education programs will suffer cutbacks, classrooms will be packed to capacity, necessary renovations will be postponed, fewer books will be purchased for the library, less qualified teachers will be hired, gifted programs will be cut, art/music/gym programs will be scaled back, aides will not be hired, and so on. All of this because the school has to meet the needs of children whose parents committed a criminal act to come here. Similar situations are occuring in healthcare. Last year we moved school districts because the wonderful diverse school system that we wanted our children in has changed beyond recognition. We are fortunate to be able to afford to do so, but what about those who cannot?
It is the fault of the government, but they are not going to take a hint unless we speak more loudly than the latino voters who are supporting amnesty and the businesses that hire them.
At this point, people are more concerned about "oh, the humanity" and "what about prices" - stop and think about the people who are suffering all over the world - are we supposed to fund them all? Because I can't afford to. Where does that argument end?
I am willing to pay $5.00 for a gallon of milk if it means that my children's school will provide the services I expect it to.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
amana, i dont think that reality has hit a lot of people here. and just like you moved, others do the same, so we end up in a virtual apartheid. Now they want to give illegals kids rights to college education, well thats not free either, its our tax dollars funding that and when these illegals get a free ride it just means that some citizen's kids who needed help will be overlooked.
these illegals champions in the media twist all kinds of stats also, claiming that immigrants as a ratio commit less crimes, oh yeah include LEGAL immigrants who go thru all sorts of checks and have to provide police records from their home countries ..people whoa re mostly educated and all, and bundle them with illegals to bring the average up.
and then the crap these immigration rights (read illegal immigrant rights) advocates say. in an outskirt of chicago, the police was getting training from homeland security to be able to 'initiate' deportation proceedings against illegals convicted of violent crime. This is not against the law, DHS has a program to train local police forces to initiate..does not mean local police takes some illegal to the US border and chucks em out, they start the paperwork, it still goes through the same process as it would had an immigration agent caught the perps. However 'the community' was not too thrilled with it and had a big march.
I mean here we have people complaining about picking up illegals with no warrants, the illegals and thei pals dont even want local police to initiate deportation procedured against illegals convincted to violent crime..how does this make sense.
Re: No Need for a Warrant, You’re an Immigrant
I agree with you X2 on this.Well they are giving them enough respect by not calling them illegal immigrants. 