Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
Its ur pathetic attitude that has led to these meaningless arguments.I at no point had any intention to say that our justice or socila system is better than that of US.
However just mention what happens in states and just menioning what heinous crimes have been comitted by US soldiers against innocent civilians .............and lot of a$$es burned.
U shud read what DA posted.....
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
DA supported this statement that sums up what i said. By Minah Pa.
**Grow up people. Everyone got prideful and started throwing out crap (yeah it was crap) just to show that my rapes are cleaner than yours are. How stupid is this kind of behavior????
PLEASE.....
Everyone kindly focus on your own back yard and realize it is happening all over. Think about changing where YOU are instead of worrying about your neighbor.
Thanks....**
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
This is a perverted assumption on ur part to see the thread as a comparison to rapes.
Rapes are extremely traumatising events for a victim and it shatters their life,they can almost never get back to their previous selves,I have seen and treated victims.
However,all rape victims shud be supported,this includes those in US.
Also,a country who's soldiers rape innocent victims shud be looking at it self B4 pointing fingers to others.
Mai had the support of almost all Pakis,and this includes the governemnt,US however continues to cover up the crimes comitted by its soldiers.It has asked for immunity to prosecution thru UN for its soldiers.
Is this too hard for u to bear?
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
..........including the government???? Do you actually read, man?
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
Attorney general has apealed against the release of culprits.
The offenders were arrested within 24 hours of their release by the high court.What do u want the gov to do,shoot the offenders?
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
However,all rape victims shud be supported,this includes those in US.
You might have treated rape victims (it shocks me that you're a doctor) in whatever country you're in, but I work with rape victims one on one in the US. I am in a much better position than you to state that rape victims are very well supported in the USA. In fact, so much better than in other countries, that it should put muslims worldwide to shame.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
By the way, I think that discussion on Mukhtaran Mai is going to be on tonite in a few minutes at 10 pm on GEO.
On Capital Talk. The darn guide doesn't say the name of the show, but these desis don't update their guides.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
Wihout knowing how other countires support these victims,how can u arrive to such conclusion…Or is just sucking the American …
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
What countries do you wish to speak about? Do you wish to island hop/continent hop from one country to the other?
I already agree with you that women get raped. But the statistics in Pakistan are not accurate - most rapes go unreported. So that poses for Pakistan an even bigger problem than what America has to face, because at least in America we can do research on the topic. For the mere reason that women speak about their troubles. In Pakistan, rape victims will not speak about their problems - most don't even report it to a doctor immediately.
You do not even practice your medicine in Pakistan, nor do you practice in the USA.
If you wish to talk of your own country, then go ahead. But don't assume your experiences in your country can accurately describe what's going on somewhere else.
I thought this is common sense. And you are a doctor?
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
Iconoclast - it is a matter of public record, do just a mediocre job of research on how the American system is set up from an actual American site and you will learn what you need to know about it.
The same thing you tried to bait PCG with could also be said about you.
As I asked prior to this post, do you read?
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
I am just askin you,Why do u categoically stated that rape victims are better supported than other countries when u do not know,and,how many times i have to state that i am not defending whats happening in Pak
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
Rape victims here have every facility they need. Rape Hotlines, immediate action by medical teams, therapy, psychologists, group meetings, classes to teach women how to defend themselves against rapists, security in dark areas and at night in public places, secured mass transportation systems, police everywhere that you can report a crime to and they’ll actually take action - and a justice system that actually punishes rapists.
Can you tell me of a country that does a better job? You’re the one bringing up the idea of a country that can do a better job - tell us. I’m sure there are systems that have their positive points.
Secondly, I dont see why you keep getting offended that I’m comparing your knowledge to what goes on in Pakistan. Do you see the title of the thread?
It says “No Mukhtaran Mai in US”. So the SUBJECT of the thread is to compare the US against Pakistan.
Man, lately I feel like I’ve been getting dummer, but thanks to people like you, I dont feel so bad about myself :k:
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
PCG - I just had a conversation with my mother the other night (about 4 days ago speaking about M. Mai and attitudes about rape in general) and she said something that really made me think.
You understand she is 61 and has been working with rape victims, the crisis center, and with the hotline since she was in her late 20's, so for a long time.
I was explaining how sometimes it was so frustrating to explain to men (especially here, American men, not too bad) about rape and how they just don't get it and how some men just don't understand the legalities or the process. Do you know what she said? She said that she has given up trying to explain rape to men, she realized that everytime a woman talks about rape and about systems of rape, men don't really listen, because men tend to think it is just another feminist ranting and tune it out while steadfastedly spouting the same drivel over and over. The only person a man will take seriously and will change his opinion for is... another man.
She gave me the advice to just walk away when you realize that no matter what you say or how you explain something, they will not listen or take you seriously.
I would walk away now, this is going no where.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
On this forum, it usually doesn't go anywhere. Its the exciting part of it - hammering ideas into the heads of stubborn males who walk around thinking they're IT because they are a walking tripod.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
PCG
The subject of thread was,not comapring the support system,but it was to tell that the problem also exists in states and that US delegates are quik to highlight such things if these happen in Pakistan while they cover up the crimes of their own soldiers comitted against women.
But for some american **** ******* its too hard to swallow
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
PAKISTAN RAPE STATISTICS
320 reported rapes in first nine months of 2004
350 reported gang rapes in same period
Many more cases go unreported
39 people arrested
Police cases registered in only a third of reported rapes
Source: Human Rights Commission of Pakistan
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
:-o you were going so well until this came up. Within context or not pcg, the notion that iraqis brought war, death, rape etc. upon themselves because the weak iraqis couldnt prevent war, is abit ridiculous. Never mind the fact shias were not asked if they wanted to be occupied or killed. But the fact is, the Iraq war would have occured regardless. Saddam was merely an excuse. Hence, no amount of stink raised could’ve have made a difference.
True if they had their houses in order, war may not have occured the way it did. But that would be akin to blaming the robbed man for leaving his window open. We all klnow the real culprit is the thief. So blaming the Iraqis for being on the recieving end of murder rape an what not, is IMO, abit too much.
But yeah, the iraq war is another issue altogether, so will leave it at that.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
US delegates are quik to highlight such things if these happen in Pakistan while they cover up the crimes of their own soldiers comitted against women.
No, US delegates and every American will point out that rape happens everywhere. In America, we do something about it. In Pakistan, there is no justice. In fact, people are bent upon PROMOTING rape by letting rapists that should be put in jail (like Mukhtaran's) walk free.
The Pakistani courts are saying there is not enough proof to arrest these guys. The WHOLE VILLAGE witnessed the rape and the rapists walking Mukhtaran nude thru the village.
And there is not enough proof???
Give me a break. First, you're talking about the US - you don't even live here. You have no clue how safe it is in this country for a female.
Plus, you're not practicing medicine in your own country. I bet you wouldn't raise a family in Pakistan either.
Gee, I wonder why.
Re: No Mukhtaraan Mai in US
nikhil and pcg,
Good job of arguing this point. Unfortunately the real issue is that we have someone here who posts a set of statistics, then looks at them and says "Isn't this awful, isn't the US decadent". From there you cannot budge someone. You can rationally discuss this till you are blue in the face. You can discuss justice, crime reporting, punishment prevention and awareness, comparability of statistics, social mores, whatever, the facts seldom change the mind of those with a prejudice that, "the US is decadent". Save your breath.