No case for war

Poll: Bush Hasn’t Made Case for Iraq War
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES (AP) – More than two-thirds of Americans believe the Bush administration has failed to make its case that a war against Iraq is justified, according to a poll by the Los Angeles Times published Tuesday.

Ninety percent of respondents said they don’t doubt Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction. But without new evidence from U.N. inspectors, 72 percent of respondents, including 60 percent of Republicans, said the president has not provided enough evidence to justify starting a war.

A lot of flatulent talk by the Administration amounting to nothing but hot air. Public view aside, my take on this is the only reason the GI’s haven’t gone in is because there isn’t a single opposition group that trusts the motives of Colon Bowel et al to even begin contemplating fighting for them. Memories of 1991 uprising and the US treachery back then can’t be easy to forget, for both the Shia’s and the Kurds. Without anyone wanting to do Uncle Sam’s dirty work, methinks the uniformed lads will stick to the occasional bomb deposited from the safe distance provided by F-16.

….. Public view aside, my take on this is the only reason the GI's haven't gone in is because there isn't a single opposition group that trusts the motives of Colon Bowel et al to even begin contemplating fighting for them. Memories of 1991 uprising and the US treachery back then can't be easy to forget, for both the Shia's and the Kurds. Without anyone wanting to do Uncle Sam's dirty work, methinks the uniformed lads will stick to the occasional bomb deposited from the safe distance provided by F-16.<<<<<<

KN, do you mean to say that US should not have helped liberate Kuwait? I agree with you. They should also have stayed out of the Balkans, hell I would say out of Europe when Chacha Hitler was eating flor de les in Pari! What is your take on suicide bombers who are afraid to wear a soldier’s attire and hide their bombs underneath their filthy long dresses. Well they get to enjoy fruits of their stupidity in hell (or heaven) depending on how you look at it.

I couldn't agree with you more Unclejee in the same kinda way I wouldn't trust the US Admin's motives even if I tried.

the bombs are dropped by heavier bombers than F-16 which is more combat oriented.

Thanks Soggy for the immensely useful input. My technical knowledge of this kinda stuff is as out dated as the MOD's warfare equipment.

>>...my take on this is the only reason the GI's haven't gone in is because there isn't a single opposition group that trusts the motives of Colon Bowel et al to even begin contemplating fighting for them.<<
lol @ Colon Bowel. Strange that, despite the efforts to link Iraq with everything from anthrax to alQaeda to "doomsday weapons" (Reuters), so many individuals are still not convinced that sufficient evidence exists against Iraq. If this keeps up, it will be time to churn out more Iraqi ex-nuclear scientists with fresh horror stories.
The case for war might have been made much more stronger if the weapons inspectors could claim that Iraq was wholly not cooperating vis-a-vis inspections. Pity even that one is out the window.

Re: No case for war

*Originally posted by Khairun Nisa: *
But without new evidence from U.N. inspectors, 72 percent of respondents, including 60 percent of Republicans, said the president has not provided enough evidence to justify starting a war.

A big setback for the war mongers in the Bush Administration, the fact that 72% of Americans do not support war against Iraq.. :k:

just buying time i guess.. u can't have war without the proper troops assembly at all the right places.. judging from the INS registration deadline, I'd say Feb is as good a month as any.

Yeh but with Bush logic he'll total 73% supporting war, and the gullible US public will swallow it putting it down to bad math on their part. My god the president can't be wrong!

Bush and his Bi*ch, Blair have no idea what they're getting into if they do decide to attack Iraq..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ums: *
Bush and his Bi*ch, Blair have no idea what they're getting into if they do decide to attack Iraq..
[/QUOTE]
Do you? If so, please let us know and I will share it with the Administration. No sense in them going into this thing blind folded.

“Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience; Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring” – Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal, 1950

U.S. vs. IRAQ: Time To Answer the Call To Serve Global Justice](http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/6516.php) Houston Independant Media Centre 10 Jan 03

**Thursday night, January 9, the Harris County Peace and Justice Workgroup presented a film and speaker on the U.S.-Iraq conflict. The film, “Hidden Wars of Desert Storm,” examines the myths and realities surrounding the first Gulf War (see www.hiddenwars.com). Rick Brennan then spoke on how issues related to the current U.S.-Iraq conflict are being covered in the corporate media. It was my privelege to help organize the event, and I presented some of the following introductory remarks. **

As much as I would like to get things started on a positive note, I think that we live in a time of crisis, when it is the duty of all decent people to answer the call to the service of global justice.

**The United Nations Children’s fund has reported that over one million Iraqis have died from the combined effects of bombing basic survival infrastructure (like water, electricity, and sanitation), and the sanctions, which have prevented the Iraqi people from repairing these facilities. The World Health Organization now estimates that as many as 500,000 casualties will result from the initial stages of a U.S. invasion of Iraq.

When over 6 million Jews were killed in WWII, we called that a holocaust. I, personally, cannot stand aside silently while my government calls the deaths of millions of civilians “collateral damage.” Is this not a holocaust because it’s only 1/6 or 1/5 as many people? Is it because these are “only brown people”?**

I think that future generations will look back upon us as we now look upon the Germans of 1930-1945, and ask, why did you let this happen? What were you doing when your government committed these crimes?

**Some people argue that they’re just suffering the consequences of not overthrowing their dictator. But these are people who hate and fear Saddam Hussein, who has remained in power in large measure because of the influence of Britain and the U.S.**In the 1980s, the Pentagon provided the Iraqi government with satellite photos of Iranian troop movements, when the U.S. new Iraq was deploying chemical weapons. After significant concern about Iraq’s use of these weapons was raised at the highest levels of the U.S. government, future War Secretary Donald Rumsfeld travelled as a representative of the Reagan administration to Iraq, having friendly talks and supporting the Hussein regime. When the Kurds rose up against Saddam after the Gulf War, the allies abandoned them to slaughter.

Now we are being asked to support a “pre-emptive” war based on “secret evidence” that this defeated third world nation poses a threat to the U.S. I say NO! I say, what we are watching is a giant television commercial to sell us petrochemicals and military hardware, and I intend to do everything I can to stop it.

I want to encourage and challenge you to get involved, and take action to resist this war. There is a growing movement against this war in the U.S. and a solid consensus against the war internationally. Join the Harris County Green Party Peace and Justice Workgroup (or any of the other local peace groups, see www.hpjc.org). Join the weekly demonstration at the Mecom Fountain where Montrose meets Main (5-8 pm Fridays). Listen to KPFT 90.1 FM and browse houston.indymedia.org for more accurate and complete coverage of the conflict. Spend 5 hours/week doing something to create peace in the world. We have the truth on our side and right now we have the opportunity and the duty to tip the balance.

Bush and his Bi*ch, Blair have no idea what they're getting into if they do decide to attack Iraq..

Do you think anyone will so much as raise a squeak after Iraq is bombed? Not likely. It'll be done and over with by then.

Bush knows, and Blair knows, no one is gonna stop them. So the thing will take its course... as planned.

It's not a question of capability as much as of willpower.

btw, DHP, who gave that speech u posted above?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by *Khairun Nisa: *
I couldn't agree with you more Unclejee in the same kinda way I wouldn't trust the US Admin's motives even if I tried.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly, KN!
Talking about Balkan. Read about it, when US delivered weapons and trained them. Exactly those who they tried to vanish afterwards.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *
btw, DHP, who gave that speech u posted above?
[/QUOTE]

Ana, the article was written by: Jon Frederick, Ph.D.

“For months, the United States has faced criticism and opposition to its foreign policy in Iraq from governments in Europe and around the world. On the weekend, ordinary citizens from Tokyo to Toronto took to the streets to voice their opposition to any U.S.-led war against Baghdad”.

World: From Washington To Tokyo, Protesters Say ‘No’ To War In Iraq](http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2003/01/20012003161634.asp) Radio Free Europe 20 Jan 03

By Jeffrey Donovan

Washington, 20 January 2003 (RFE/RL) – Hundreds of thousands of people around the world took to the streets over the weekend to demonstrate against a possible U.S.-led war against Iraq. Protesters from Washington to Moscow and Ankara to Tokyo urged the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush not to go ahead with any plans to attack Baghdad, which the White House accuses of harboring weapons of mass destruction.

There were also demonstrations in Canada, across Europe, and in the Middle East as part of an internationally coordinated Day of Action against war in Iraq. The weekend’s biggest antiwar rallies in the United States were in Washington and San Francisco. Organizers claimed turnouts of 50,000 in San Francisco and at least 200,000 in Washington.

Mara Verheyden-Hillard, a civil rights attorney, told reporters before the Washington rally that a new antiwar movement – not unlike the peace wave that swept the United States during the Vietnam War – is set to hit the streets should the United States strike Iraq. “We’re going to see the essence of grassroots democracy in the United States, which is people getting up, going outside, and taking to the streets when they feel that the government is not responding to the will of the people, because then people must act for themselves,” Verheyden-Hillard said.

Shouting “No blood for oil,” the protesters marched past some of the U.S. capital’s key political and military symbols, beginning at the National Mall, near the famous Washington and Lincoln memorials, and spilling onto the grounds of the U.S. Capitol building before concluding in front of the Washington Naval Yards.

The long, park-like mall is legendary in the United States as the place where hundreds of thousands of protesters gathered in 1963 to hear civil rights activist Martin Luther King Jr. deliver his famous “I have a dream” speech, in which he voiced a vision for a racially equal society.

Today is a national holiday in the United States marking King’s birthday. African-American leaders Jesse Jackson, a former presidential candidate, and Al Sharpton, a presidential hopeful in 2004, gave speeches at the rally denouncing Bush’s record on race and what they call his militarism.

Like many protesters, the Reverend Grayland Hagler, a Washington religious leader, accused the Bush administration of seeking to topple Saddam Hussein in order to control Iraq’s vast oil reserves.** Bush and other top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, are former executives in the oil industry. “Why should our sons and daughters fight and die to keep oil in the tank of a gas-guzzling SUV [sport utility vehicle, popular among affluent Americans]? Why should our daughters and sons have to fight and die to benefit the profits of oil companies and the oil industry? That’s why we’re in the streets, because there is no logical reason,” Hagler said.**

The protesters are hoping to turn U.S. public opinion against the Bush administration at a time when Americans are ambivalent about a war in Iraq but largely support Bush’s leadership. The Bush administration vehemently denies that oil is playing any role in its calculations about Iraq. It maintains that Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction, has violated several United Nations resolutions to disarm since 1991, and is a threat to regional and world peace.

Bush, who says Hussein has one last chance to disarm under the current UN inspections regime, has ordered a massive military buildup in the Persian Gulf in a bid to pressure the Iraqi leader to live up to his commitments to the UN. Bush says he still hopes to avoid war but that the choice is Hussein’s to make.

Both Secretary of State Colin Powell and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told U.S. television over the weekend that a conflict could be avoided if Hussein abdicates power and seeks exile in another country. At the Washington rally, one of United States’ most famous antiwar protesters said a war in Iraq will hurt, not help, national security.

Ron Kovic is a paralyzed Vietnam War veteran whose return from that conflict and transformation into an antiwar activist was chronicled in his book “Born on the Fourth of July,” which was later turned into a movie starring Tom Cruise. Kovic had this to say before the rally on 18 January: “Do you want to know what is threatening our national security? This war! This war will put the people that we love, our people, our fellow citizens, our mothers and our fathers [into harm’s way]. This war, this president’s war, will make us even greater targets of terror than ever before. This war will bring on a firestorm of terror against us,” Kovic said.

Although not as large, antiwar protests in other countries were vocal and, in some cases, more volatile.

Demonstrations across Turkey, NATO’s only Muslim country, marked the arrival of General Richard Meyers, the top U.S. military official. Washington wants to base up to 80,000 troops in Turkey for possible action against Iraq, but Ankara has been reluctant to give its permission. Some 80 percent of Turks oppose war with Iraq.

In Brussels, about 5,000 people marched under the motto “Stop United States of Aggression.” Twenty-five people who were locked together in groups of two or three were arrested in London during a protest outside a military base. In Bologna, Italy, police fired tear gas to control a 2,000-strong crowd that tried to break through a barricade.

And in the Netherlands, police detained nearly 100 activists who tried to conduct what they called a “citizens’ inspection of American nuclear arms” at the Volkel air-force base in the southern Dutch town of Uden.

Germany and Russia have again rejected the Bush doctrine which advocates unilateral action against Iraq. Almost the entire world is now firmly against the Bush Administrations foreign policies.

Putin, Schroeder back diplomacy](http://europe.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/24/sproject.irq.schroeder.putin/) CNN 24 Jan 03

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) – Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, speaking by telephone, have stressed the closeness of their position over the need for a political solution in Iraq, the Kremlin said.

The telephone call added to increasingly vocal opposition in Europe as a whole to a U.S.-led strike on Iraq without U.N. approval. “They spoke over the telephone, and discussed the situation around Iraq,” a Kremlin spokesman told Reuters about the discussion between Putin and Schroeder.

“Both sides stressed the closeness of the positions of Russia and Germany in calling for a political solution of the Iraq problem within the framework of the United Nations.”

Polls find Europeans oppose Iraq war](BBC NEWS | Europe | Polls find Europeans oppose Iraq war) BBC News 11 Feb 03

By William Horsley BBC European Affairs analyst

Europe’s leaders may be divided on the Iraq crisis, but the majority of people across the continent are united in their opposition to war, polls suggest. From Portugal to Russia, opinion surveys suggest that without a further UN resolution, most Europeans are overwhelmingly against war - and even a second resolution would not convince many of them.

In Germany, central to Europe’s anti-war bloc, an opinion poll this week makes it look almost as if the Germans now see the US - not Iraq - as the main threat to world peace. The Forsa poll found 57% of Germans held the opinion that “the United States is a nation of warmongers”. Only 6% said they thought President George W Bush was concerned with “preserving peace”.

Anti-war demonstrations are taking place across Europe
From Germany there is also evidence of damage to the overall image of the US. A new Emnid poll conducted in Berlin found that 54% percent of Berliners under 30 years old had a “mostly negative” association with the US as a country, against 36% who saw it as “mostly positive”. …

"Forsa poll found 57% of Germans held the opinion that “the United States is a nation of warmongers”.
:rolleyes: I wonder if the same poll also said the United States is a nation of beer drinkers?