Niyyat of a General

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Niyyat of a General

just lame excuses...Dr A Q khan if not thought in your way...then pakistan would not be Atomic power today !!!!!!

amna taseer (governor punjab's salman taseer wife)
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Re: Niyyat of a General

Here is what I wrote:

PS: It's the "escaped" ones who return and invest financial and intellectual capital in the country that can't really help itself.

How is your reading comprehension?

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Re: Niyyat of a General

$6/hour would put a person below poverty level in US.

so now that we have that out of the way lets talk about Pakistan.

are you saying that 90% of the population is so poor that they cant pay any taxes?

30% or so is below poverty line so they pay no taxes fine.
then you have 70% that are above poverty line. surely not all of them are in a state that they cant pay ANY taxes.

sorry bro the corruption in Pakistan is at all levels, how would you justify electricty theft in the cities and water theft by farmers.

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Re: Niyyat of a General

so u are saying that the cream of the crop left Pakistan and just the mediocre people stayed? and that is the reason for Pakistan's issues?

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Fraudia,

Once upon a time not very long long ago, criticizing Paki army was ‘gunah-e-kabira’ in this forum, perhaps I was the only one who condemned Paki dictators, wrong doing of army for which I was banned. But now I see lots of people including yourself criticizing army generals openly. The question is who has brought the status of army so low? Though dictator themselves are responsible for down ward graph of popularity of army, Mush proved to be catalyst, and in his tenure the down ward trend has continued exponentially in last two months. It is high time that he should leave the position now or face the logical end of all the dictators (humiliation of breakup of country, C-130 etc) further downgrading the army and country itself.

By the way I have been participating in this forum and sometimes in religion section since 1997. I don’t see now the names of participants now (Muzna, Malik 73, something 786, Bitter Truth, there were lots of Indian participants I don’t see their names either. Perhaps they may very well be in this forum with different nick names.

FARID

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Farid what are you talking about, I criticized musharraf back when he had overthrown nawaz, so its not true that it was gunah a kabira. I think it may have become like that when we had a rabid group of anti-pak indians, and anti-pak afghans pretending to be pakistanis, and their opponents, which many left because after a cleaning house the place was more civil than it had become during their turf wars.

as far as names, some ppl are busy in their lives, some left due to cleaning house, some due to boredom and differences in philosophy etc etc.

Now when you use the example of musharaff as a cause that ppl are dissing army, does the same apply to our politicians because they have been dissed for a long time..altaf, nawaz, benazir etc etc etc

27

Re: Niyyat of a General

true, but you criticise him on an issue with one hand, but write his praises on the same issue with your other hand.

The two don't go together, which is why people say that about u

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Re: Niyyat of a General

First of all RealDeal to put things in contect, we are talking about the past, farid said that it was a taboo. I simply stated that it was not the case, and gave my example. As a matter of fact I was extremely skepitcal about musharraf and was very upset at the whole military action. You are free to search my posts and find them.

as ar as criticising him and praising him, I guess I try to present a balanced view and to question their polarized extreme, both to tose who would not give him credit for anything, and those who give him credit for everything. in this black and white polarized political climate, I move from silver to heather grey to charcoal grey :) but never back or white.

and while it may be hard for people to comprehend, the way an issue is handled, aspects of it could be good and could be bad. and it could be weak compared to an optimal or ideal solution, and excellent compared to track records of predecessors. so when its criticzed or praised, its either aspects or the context being used. and its not just musharraf, I have criticized and appreicated tings that nawaaz regime did too, hell, even MQM.

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Fraudia,

That was classier joke when some one in other thread said:

Aay watan ke sanjeelo jawano
Saray raqbay tumharay leay hain

Let me give you background of this old national song. The original song which was sung by Noor Jehan in 1965 during September 65 war: (You might be knowing this)

Aay watan ke sanjeelo jawano
Saray naghmay tumaraay leay hain

Noor Jehan won pride of performance award from Ayub Khan, then president of Pakistan, though Mahdi Hasan’s song was much superior

Apni jaan nazr karoon
Apni wafa pesh karoon
Quom ke mard-e-mujahid
Tujhey kya pesh karoon
Apni jaan nazr karoon

That was a classy song Mehdi Hasan should have been awarded same POP award, but he was not even appreciated by Badshah-e-Waqt. People of Karachi were pissed-off, when they heard another song

Khitae Lahore tere jaanasron ko salaam.

FARID

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Re: Niyyat of a General

so lets just hug them because they are doing what most of us might do in their position. jazabati qaum :rolleyes:

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Just need a clarification for myself here..
Does the army account for OFFICERS only for residential purchases? are there any such schemes for junior lot… i mean Non-Commissioned ppl of army that make up the most part of it.

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Re: Niyyat of a General

boota,
The officer schemes stir most debate in Pakistani society as they're more valuable and prestigious. The NCOs/ORs also get numerous privileges and benefits including some subsidized housing, land allowances/schemes post-retirement, but they are not as valuable and majorly in rural/farming lands as far as I'm aware at the moment.

Paindoo list...
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Re: Niyyat of a General

just a comment..
my father retired as a NCO he got his ,wat u call that, gratuity , no land allowances and being from that community have seen lot many NCO's.
never mind though

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Re: Niyyat of a General

residencial plots and agricultural land at throw away prices is the right of the officers the non officers get none of this. officers only qualify for the perks after 16 year of service
Army is criticized more than any other segment of society since they have declared themselves the holy cow, beyond accountibility, above the law. They have been solely been incharge of this country by direct rule or by default(except 5 years of Bhutto) and have failed miserably. When Army is involved in ruling a country it gets corrupt. Police, customs, income tax and other departments are more corrupt but they do not claim to be godfather of this country. Those army lovers who boast so called economic development should understand this well that more progress was made under Ayub khan but within 2 years of him leaving the government pakistan was dismembered. The turmoil in every corner of pakistan can only be dealt with free and fair elections, those politicians who are corrupt should be tried in courts and banned for life but using the same bunch of corrupt lotas to extend army rule is a recipe for disaster

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Good to know that Boota. Which Regt, what rank and which year did he retire and how long did he serve?
As far as I know, apart from the pensions they do receive optional membrship for some subsidized colonies. Or maybe they are very few and just for JCOs? There are certain OR colonies, ofcourse they may be very few but I'm really not sure how many there are and which force has the best NCO retirement plans, army, navy or paf.

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Re: Niyyat of a General

sure i would like to investigate that too..
btw my father was in air force..11 squadron served at sargodha most of his life. oh and he served for 18 years..

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Re: Niyyat of a General

I see. No. 11 the elite F-16 Sqn.
You must be a proud son! :k:

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Re: Niyyat of a General

Zuberi, i want to put the record straight for this plot and land system in army.

No one pays a dime for these plots in Army till the time he is alloted one. After allotment he pays installments for the price. It is due to the development practices of the D.H.A that the prices sky rocket and one is compensated. Government does not put a single anna in the D.H.A. so D.H.A is just like any other cooperative society run by organizations but it is legally backed by ordnances pushed by military rulers and is managed institutionally. Bahria is one example which fetches the same for its plots because of better management.

The deductions you are talking about are for A.W.H.S or Army Welfare Housing Society. Officers become members and pay a small amount all their service and in the end pay the remaining lumpsum from their gratiuity or D.S.O.P or Defense Services Provident Fund. The plots are handled by W&R i.e Welfare & Rehabilitation Directorate while these houses are handled by Housing Directorate. So they are separate schemes. Both organizations are well managed and therefore good colonies always fetch good prices. The land acquired for plots and houses is from market and not the government land as speculated by some people. so this should form a role model for other organization.

An officer gets his first plot in D.H.A once he has done 15 years of service with army while he gets his second on completion of 25 years and 28 years and so on. The problem starts in General Ranks once they get farm lands on 100 years lease and commercial plots in D.H.A etc.

This plot scheme was introduced by General Musharraf to divert the attention of Army officers and men (yes every JCO gets a plot in D.H.A of 5 marlas and Subedar Major a plot of 8 Marlas) from the discontment generated because of very hard life and very less pay. It is rather better to increase the pay to special groups like all these NESCOM and Atomic Energy and other organization employes are getting. This plot system does not raise the standard of life and creates more problems that one who is alloted a plot in D.H.A Lahore gets better price than the one who gets in D.H.A Islamabad. so better is to stop it and compensate the army by raising the pay. Now all officers in pindi are all time talking of plots. The attention is diverted from professionalism.

See the after effects. The officers doing good in their profession may be working hard but the ones who are left behind are into plots and shares. In GHQ, it is famous that other than Military Operations, Military Intelligence, Military Secretary and another handful of offices, rest all are more busy in stock exchange than their work. Grade 2 officers only sign the files once there is break in trading otherwise they are busy on the phone with their brokers or using internet based trading halls. Till corps HQ the work is smooth but GHQ is a big bottleneck. All these officers once retire have developed enough understanding into the land business and they have good contacts in army with the people who will get plots in future and may be wanting to sell them so they all become estate agents themselves or work for them. see the classified page for yourself.

The army is more into "tea breaks" and ceremonies than training for war and it is very sad.

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Re: Niyyat of a General

MKf- Haris does not like to hear anything, especially the truth about this Army/MQM govt

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Re: Niyyat of a General

well he has his point of view but sometimes i feel that he is into the "state of denial". there is a limit to defend every thing. As you see i favor that army be compensated for the tough life they spend away from their families at no extra pay but there are better ways than these plots and land systems.