Nikaah

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

suroor - I think that was harsh of you to judge him like that. If he made a mistake in the past, and he clearly said that he broke up with with her due to religious reasons then who are we to judge? He made a mistake and then realized and ended the relationship because he obviously thought he was doing wrong. If anything he should be commended for doing that because that shows a strength in character. At the end of the day, it's between him and Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala. And of course, He is the most forgiving.

Dhulfiqar-

It's obviously your decision to make, but I think you should slow down and look at the circumstances and possible consequences that may result. You should take your parents into confidence and let them know. At least one set of parents should support you both in all of this. Plus you haven't even graduated. You should first find some sort of stability in your career and then go ahead with the nikaah. She should also give it some thought, she shouldn't be converting because she wants to get married to you. But because she truly wants to be a muslim. Imaan should always come before anything else. Just my two cents.

22

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by suroor_ca02: *
dude.. if u wanna get laid .. just get laid.. y do u have to bring religion into it.. u werent so careful the first time u were physical with her.. y shud it bother u now?
[/QUOTE]

That's harsh.

23

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~Sehar~: *
suroor - I think that was harsh of you to judge him like that. If he made a mistake in the past, and he clearly said that he broke up with with her due to religious reasons then who are we to judge? He made a mistake and then realized and ended the relationship because he obviously thought he was doing wrong. If anything he should be commended for doing that because that shows a strength in character. At the end of the day, it's between him and Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala. And of course, He is the most forgiving.

Dhulfiqar-

It's obviously your decision to make, but I think you should slow down and look at the circumstances and possible consequences that may result. You should take your parents into confidence and let them know. At least one set of parents should support you both in all of this. Plus you haven't even graduated. You should first find some sort of stability in your career and then go ahead with the nikaah. She should also give it some thought, she shouldn't be converting because she wants to get married to you. But because she truly wants to be a muslim. Imaan should always come before anything else. Just my two cents.
[/QUOTE]

Agr gunnah ka purdah Allah ne rakha, tu who is Dhulfikar to let all
Pakis know abt it. He seems kind of proud abt it.

Istikaara karle.

24

Dhulfiqar, this is a very big decision and its going to change ur and her life forever...as a husband u'll be under huge responsibility for her and urself...

a decision made in haste is a decision of shaitaan

have u thought abt it coolly for some time? i think you should think more about it bro...following this thread, she called you on the 11th, by the 14th u had made up ur mind to marry her...today is the 17th...all this is too fast i think for such a huge decision...i think you need to think about this some more...u might still reach the same decision...but just allow urself some more time...

and you must tell your parents...coz u owe it to them, its the right thing to do, and without their support its gona be very rough

you are too young right now n ppl take very impulsive decisions at your age the responsibility of which they cant live up to later...n it seems to me like you are taking a very impulsive decision...

i am not saying don't marry her...maybe she is who Allah has destined for u...in fact i hope inshallah that she does convert n u guys r able to get married inshallah coz u both like each other... but i think you should first tell your parents under all circumstances n try to get them to agree...

25

sorry...but where was his conscious when he was With the girl? he basically played with her. when he knew that there is an issue of religion (for him i.e), why did he go out with her in the first place?
blahh!
he is just looking for an outlet for his guilt of getting "close" with her.

26

babez - We're all human, we make mistakes, we commit sins don't we? Consciously and unconsciously. We make mistakes, we learn and as a result we become better human beings, or at least thats how it is supposed to work. I've seen people turn their lives around, I mean a total 180 degree turn, to become better muslims. It's all about trying and making the effort, regardles of what you've done in the past. It's the present that matters now. I'd think everyone deserves a chance instead of being judged.

27

dhulfikar brov’ hear was me thinking ur the traditional type but oh no aap ko be unfortunately from my viewpoint lag gaiyeee maghrab ki hawaaaa, may peace be with you and your future decisions ameen laterz :flower1:

28

suroor_ca02, dear , give him a little break. I know he is thinking wrong stuff but we are here to give him right advise not to push him to comimt another sin.

He is very unmature, young and under pressure atm. All he is thinking is just to get married and all this will be over. This is where he is getting wrong and unfortunately the friends around him are not wise enough to put the full picture in front of him.

Every one commits sins and then try to get forgiveness from allah in their own way. What he is doing is a good step but he have to know is that life will be very hard after this and should have some future planing at this stage.

and mate you ahve to involve your parents no matter what.

29

u know whats more funny, if it was some non muslim guy, u guyz wud have given ur fatwa already. :rolleyes:

30

Faisal bhai thanks for the kind dua and I’m aware of the sacredness of Nikaah and my duties towards her after it.

suroor_ca02 yeah of course I want the "intimate and physical" part to be legalised, it’s only natural for any sane man to want that but I do care for her also and there’s more to it than just wanting to get laid… and Astaghferullah getting laid without Nikaah?

CurruptAngel :P

Kewlsolara yes I agree and I’m aware of my duties as a ‘husband’, as far the law of the land is concerned then I don’t think I’m breaking it in anyway, and I don’t care if it considers us husband and wife or not I’m not really bothered about Jaahili man made laws… As for proof in case I do end up telling anyone I always have the witnesses at hand and the Imam.

fantastic1 thanks I will and thanks for the well wishes and dua.

~Sehar~ Thanks for the advice, yeah I think I should slow down a bit too, but thing is I love her and don’t want to loose her and yeah I agree 100% that faith should come before anything else but she does say she really believes in Islam, I asked her and she’s agreed to start wearing long sleeved shalwar-kameez and a dupatta on her head instead of the skimpier version or English clothes and after we move in together she said she’s going to start wearing the full thing, Allah knows best what’s in her heart.

rehman1 bhai I’m not proud of it, I’m ashamed of what I did when I was younger that’s why I left her when I started thinking about religion seriously. Allah willing I will pray the Istikharah prayer and I’ll see what happens.

irem yeah I know it’s a bit quick and it’s a big step in life but we’re in no hurry to marry just yet I want her to learn prayers and stuff first. And Thanks for the dua.

#let uz chat# I am very conservative and 'traditional' in my views but you know flesh is weak and living in the west we are always surrounded by sin and evil and it's hard to not give into the temptation but I did leave her when I got serious about Islam and now that she wants us to get back I want to Halalify things... I think Muslim parents should marry kids of at about 16 and teach them about contraception so they can satisfy themselves in a Halal manner and also not worry about having kids untill they have completed their education...

As for telling my parents and making the Nikaah public which all of you have advised me to do… I want to do that too but what stops me is, first I’m worried if her parents find out they’ll take my Jatti to India and get her married to some bloke back there and secondly I’m also worried about the ‘emotional blackmail’ from my mum she’ll go on and on about how I’ve broke her heart by not marrying a more ‘khandaani’ girl, she always goes on about finding a ‘chaand si dulhan’ for me… and I love my mum and I might just give in… I’d be stuck between the love of my life and my parents…

31

First thing First bro,

[QUOTE]
as far the law of the land is concerned then I don’t think I’m breaking it in anyway, and I don’t care if it considers us husband and wife or not I’m not really bothered about Jaahili man made laws… As for proof in case I do end up telling anyone I always have the witnesses at hand and the Imam.
[/QUOTE]

First : you are living on earth and not in heaven. so you also have to follow the man made laws here.

Secondly: you are not living islamic country. So going against that countries law you will be putting many things at stake, including your parents reputation, your wifes reputation and her parents reputation. So you will end up in jail (coz her parents can sue you and your parents for alot of things) and your mrs will go back to inda and will get remarried coz you simply did not follow the man made laws.

Thirdly: you can not keep those witnesses or molvi at hand all the time and for not registering your marriage they will get in to trobule as well and all of you will become famous eventually when media will know about your love story and stupidity of witnesses and molvi.

Fourth: You need to register your marriage to give a sense of security to your partner.

[QUOTE]
I think Muslim parents should marry kids of at about 16 and teach them about contraception
[/QUOTE]

Which muslim parents you are talking about ????teaching contraception to kids???

Mate these things are Taboo to talk about in muslim socitey even though we are in 2004.

[QUOTE]
secondly I’m also worried about the ‘emotional blackmail’ from my mum she’ll go on and on about how I’ve broke her heart by not marrying a more ‘khandaani’ girl, she always goes on about finding a ‘chaand si dulhan’ for me… and I love my mum and I might just give in… I’d be stuck between the love of my life and my parents…
[/QUOTE]

You are very weak mentally. Eventhough you have made your mind you still think that you will gave up.

what is the chance you wont gave up if your mum is going to "emotionaly blakcmail" you after the marriage as its not even registered.

But in the end its your life and your decesion we can all advise you in our capacity.

32

:slight_smile:
you still need some more growing up to do, as kewlsora mentioned, more strength of mind, but we all need to do that…you are not as immature as i first thought you are…
it seems you are going in it with sincerity…keep the sincerity in your niyah alive always and Allah swt will surely help you…
my best prayers for you lil bro :slight_smile: :flower1:

33

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *

#let uz chat# I am very conservative and 'traditional' in my views ** but you know flesh is weak and living in the west we are always surrounded by sin and evil and it's hard to not give into the temptation ** but I did leave her when I got serious about Islam and now that she wants us to get back I want to Halalify things... I think Muslim parents should marry kids of at about 16 and teach them about contraception so they can satisfy themselves in a Halal manner and also not worry about having kids untill they have completed their education...

[/QUOTE]

bhai i'm far from a perfect muslim myself but i live abroad 2 in england to be precise i'm surrounded by evil 2 i fight my nafs on day-2-day basis and the satan inside me and i manage sometimes i agree its very hard i myself have been in uncomfortable positions before but brov' i have done it in the past and am doing it @ present and so can every 1 of u'z out there its just a matter of having firm belief in yourself and trying 2 the best of ur ability, and leave the rest up to khuda wandee koudus he'll protect you. brov a down side is every 1 around u especially fellow muslims think ur uncoventional and wierd & gay well thats me talking from my own expereince but fight that 2 u'll reap ur rewards whenit matters the most on the day of judgement

34

kewlsolara bhai, irem aapi and #let uz chat# bhai thanks for replying.

I don’t think I am breaking the law because first marriage is not necessary for a couple to be together over here, it’s a baysharam bayhayaa si country (jesay meiN pehlay huwa karta tha) and I don’t think an unregistered Nikaah is against the law neither, I mean why would it be? A small sermon and an offer and acceptance in the presence of two witnesses are not harming anyone. And I don’t think her parents can sue us for anything because in the laws eyes its only a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship and there’s no breaking the law in that because we are both over the age of consent which is 16 over here… and also once somebody is 18 (which we both are) we’re even allowed to get married officially and live with whom we choose and parents don’t have a say in any of that after the ‘child’ has turned 18…

I’ve thought over it and I can’t really see any problems arising anywhere… According to Allah and our close friends we'd be husband and wife, the law and everyone else thinks of us as just girlfriend and boyfriend and when the time comes after uni, I’ll tell my parents I want to marry her and we can have a second Nikaah and get it officially registered this time and obviously not tell them about our previous relationship and it will all be sorted or at least I think it will be… We’ll both be financially independent then and have a place of our own and there will be no worrying about her parents taking her away and it’s more likely that my parents will agree with my decision then than if I tell them now because of age and stuff…

35

**Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
...
I don’t think I am breaking the law because first marriage is not necessary for a couple to be together over here, it’s a baysharam bayhayaa si country (jesay meiN pehlay huwa karta tha) and I don’t think an unregistered Nikaah is against the law neither, I mean why would it be? A small sermon and an offer and acceptance in the presence of two witnesses are not harming anyone. And I don’t think her parents can sue us for anything because in the laws eyes its only a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship and there’s no breaking the law in that because we are both over the age of consent which is 16 over here… *

So you are abusing both sharia and law. Shariah requires all contracts to be on paper with witnesses, and as indicated by above relationships as you indicated are to be announced within family.

At one point you want to "halalify", but only to the extent where your selfishness can go. Tomorrow if you divorce her, none of the law would require you to pay her any alimony since nothing was "legal", basically you want to keep a provision of running away from the relationship intentionally or unintendedly.

36

dhulfiqar, what are you more worried about compromising your religious values or like you said" wont inherit anything". it seems to me that you are more worried about the money. If you love her and she is willing to conevert, than have no fear my bro and go for it.

37

It sounds like you are very close to your mum so I think she would come round to the idea eventually if she knows how important it is to you. Have you thought how hurt she would feel if she found out that you did this behind her back. If she cant be involved in searching for your “chand si dulhan” im sure she would want to be involved in the wedding, surely that is better than not being involved at all.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you are both very happy together if you do go ahead with it. :k:

38

Originally posted by Dhulfiqar:

I’ve thought over it and I can’t really see any problems arising anywhere… According to Allah and our close friends we'd be husband and wife, the law and everyone else thinks of us as just girlfriend and boyfriend and when the time comes after uni, I’ll tell my parents I want to marry her and we can have a second Nikaah and get it officially registered this time and obviously not tell them about our previous relationship and it will all be sorted or at least I think it will be… We’ll both be financially independent then and have a place of our own and there will be no worrying about her parents taking her away and it’s more likely that my parents will agree with my decision then than if I tell them now because of age and stuff…

Nikah over nikah, i dont htink in islam there is a provision of doing 2nd nikah with same person without any reason. specially when first nikah is 100 % legit.

I dont wanted to say the following but you haev left me no choice.

As i have said before To register the marriage is for her security as well. lets say it will take you another 3 years to tell your parents and between that she gets pregnant ( remmebr notign is 100% safe contraception) because after all you will be husband and wife.

Then what you gona do.??????

What if one of you (godforbid) gets very sick / die, what will be the rights of other partner????

if its Her how she will be burried accordign to sikh laws / muslim laws???

How will you be able to prove at that time that she was muslim and your wife???

And after nikah will you be moving in toghether ?????

if not where the hell she will be practicing her islamic duties i.e. roza / namaz etc???? at her parents house????What if her parents will force her to go to gurudwara(spelling) and she is weak like you and cant say no.????

Dude, people around you are guiding you into completly wrong direction includign that molvi. Either they are relegious fanatics who just want to push you to do something or they do not have any wisdom.

I will strongly suggest to contact the Islamic council of your area (not the paki council) and consult them in detail about your plans before acting.

You might be thinking where its all coming from. So here is something to open your mind.

My wife is vietnamises. she was buddish (kind of) before. We were class fellow and fall in love. and i started to teach her about islam once i saw that she was willing enough to learn.

My parents were not here (Australia), but when i told them about our future plans, they came to Autralia and said to me " It was initially very hard for us but then we realized losing our son just because he didnt marry an born muslim girl was not a good enough reason and in the end if our son is happy in his life thats all we need".

My mother herself taught my wife all the namaz and other islamic teaching before she (my wife) converted to islam.

We got married in the presece of my parents at islamic council centre and two of my best mate as our witneses.

her parents didnt approved of it earlier due to some missconceptions (eg.e muslims = terrorist, 4 marriages a must , and offcource racisim etc) but then they cant object any thing later either and now they have come to terms with us because they know our relationship is fully legit and I represent her as my law full wife everywhere.

And we are living happly (mashallah- chasme bud-door)) although 80% of desi's still think of my wife as Alien and vice versa but then thats their problem.

So hopefully you will see the big picture.

Making someone muslim and gettign married is the easiest part , but to deal with the day to day life after that is the hardest one. and if you think you are not ready to tell your parents about it till now, then in my point of view you are not even ready for the marriage.

Things like education, establishing the career first, and gettign financial stability etc before telling your parents about your marriage are just the lame excuses to clear your consious (spellings) for yourself.

Coz if you really care about that stuff (i.e.education, establishing the career first, and gettign financial stability) you wont be thinking about gettign married at the age of 18.

Sorry for the long Post Guppies :)

39

Changez_like as far as I know the Shariah does not require any contracts to be on paper, that’s preferred but not necessary for the Nikaah to be valid. Some school of Islamic jurisprudence might require it but I don’t follow any one in particular…

And I don’t see how I’m abusing the country’s law?

Allah forbid things will never come to a divorce; I’m very serious about her… I think the only thing I have to pay her is the dowry (Mahr)… And if Islam requires me to make any payments for divorce then I’ll do that too but I hope things will never get to that…

Kashmirimunda naheiN yaar, I was messin’ about being worried about not inheriting anything, material possessions don’t mean anything to me, never have done, woh to bass aesay hee keh diya tha…

nandulala yeah I am very close to my mum and I would love to have her there but I’m worried ke if I tell her she’ll think I’m not serious cuz she thinks I’m still only a kid but I’m not… she’ll be there at the one we do later on at the register office and the Waleemah after that…

kewlsolara First Masha’Allah nice to here that everything went well for you bro, may Allah bless you and bhaabi with infinite happiness…

I didn’t know Nikaah over Nikaah was not allowed, that fell on me like a tonne of bricks… Maybe I’d have to tell them straight it’s already done and only a legal one at the register office needs doing…

As for pregnancy, we’ll be careful I remember my S. Ed classes very well and know how to avoid that… It’s always good to use more than one type of contraception at the same time…

Practicing Islam… well she does have her own bedroom, she can pray her Namaaz in there, as for Roza by next Ramzaan we’ll both be at uni Insha’Allah and living away from home. And as for dietary laws that’s all sorted too because she has taken Amrit and Amritdhaari Sikhs don’t usually eat meat, drink alcoholic beverages or smoke so her not doing all that wont make her parents suspicious… As for going to the Gurdawarah in unavoidable cases I’ve told her it’s okay to go as long as she doesn’t do Matha-Tek (Sajdah/Prostration) to the Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh scripture) or pick up any wrong beliefs from the Kirtan/Gurbani (Sikh hymns). And she says she would be a Muslim even if I weren’t going to marry her so these issues like worship, living an Islamic life, burial would still have been a problem…

I’ll pray Istikhaarah and see what happens.

40

yeah do istikhara. Good luck bhai sahhb :)