Then Faisal, do you agree that blasphemy at any level...whether be against the koran or Muhammad, is a punishable offense? Adultery is a crime?
There is a difference between a sin and a crime, no?
Adultery is a sin and a crime. Yes.
Blasphemy.. I am still waiting to see any evidence that it should be punishable by men. I think it is something which only God will punish on the Day of Judgement. Atleast based on the example I have in mind, where people in the city of Taif threw stones at the Prophet (Sallah o Alaihay Wasalam) and he never cursed them or ordered them be killed (at a later date). Surely throwing stones is far grave a blasphemy than writing words or saying something.
If these core laws are so complete, why are they still so misunderstood after 1200 years of study? With all the questions asked as to "is this permissable?" All the differing interpretations. The need to consult "scholars" for opinions. It seems that God would have made it all a little easier to understand.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Atleast based on the example I have in mind, where people in the city of Taif threw stones at the Prophet (Sallah o Alaihay Wasalam) and he never cursed them or ordered them be killed (at a later date). Surely throwing stones is far grave a blasphemy than writing words or saying something.
[/QUOTE]
i was thinking of this example as i kept re-checking this thread. Infact, on the contrary, he asked Allah to forgive (and guide) the people of Taif... even after he had been pelted with stones and insulted by them.
Adultery is a sin, not a crime. Sin - arising from vice - violates God, crime violates humans and human-made laws.
Crime should be punishable by humans. Sin will be punishable by God.
That's my take on it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
If these core laws are so complete, why are they still so misunderstood after 1200 years of study? With all the questions asked as to "is this permissable?" All the differing interpretations. The need to consult "scholars" for opinions. It seems that God would have made it all a little easier to understand.
[/QUOTE]
This is another topic.
Right now we are discussing the events in NIgeria and more specifically the blasphemy issues.
You can take your questions and open a new thread so as not to derail the topic.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *
Adultery is a sin, not a crime. Sin - arising from vice - violates God, crime violates humans and human-made laws.
Crime should be punishable by humans. Sin will be punishable by God.
That's my take on it.
[/QUOTE]
And that is the samest assessment I have read on this topic to date on GS.
Re: Nigerian State Says Miss World Reporter Should Die
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stu: *
What the *@!K is wrong with these people? This has to be some kind of sick joke.
Nigerian State Says Miss World Reporter Should Die
[/QUOTE]
Excuse me for sounding rude but what world are you living in? Isn't that reporter sick to you who wrote such an article? What on earth was she thinking writing such a thing, she was aware of the turmoil this would lead to. And it caused the death of 100 people, or was it 200? and something like 500 injured! Do you think it would be wrong for their relatives to demand such a thing?!!? sheesh!
Or is a bunch of Muslim peoples live not worth to the westerners?
I wonder what your thoughts would be if this happened in a western country and how many of ----> "*@!K " would you have in your writing against that writer?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *
Adultery is a sin, not a crime. Sin - arising from vice - violates God, crime violates humans and human-made laws
[/QUOTE]
I am not sure how you are basing your statement. It may that this is what makes sense to you, in which case you are free to adhere to it. Not as a statement of law.
On the other hand, there is ample evidence that adultery is considered both a sin and a crime. If I were to speculate on the reason why it is also considered a crime, then I would suggest that maybe because it corrupts the society. There is evidence that adultery was a punishable offence in the times of Prophet (Sallah o Alaihay Wasalam).
Just to give you an example from present day times: Why don't the United States government allow people to roam around naked on the street? Why does the state of California and 48 other states do not allow prostitution? Why are there public nudity laws? Why do police arrest people for solicitation of sex?
Because all these things effect the public decency. You can set the bar lower or higher, but you set it somewhere. In Islam it is set at no extra-marital sex (by consent or not). In US, it is no-sex-for-money. In some other places the bar may be even lower. I don't know.
Do you think it would be wrong for their relatives to demand such a thing?
Bismaaaaah.... careful careful..easy goes it tiger...
Are u justifying taking a life for a life? Think about it a second sweets.
I would suggest that maybe because it corrupts the society
Faisal bhai, by that logic, internet chatting also corrupts society - because people can give free reign to all the filthy ideas in their heads, and it can put more ideas in people's heads than weren't already there. Is chatting on GS a crime?
Would u like to be punished for it? Finger cut? Hand chopped off? Two or three whip lashes maybe, since perhaps it's just a minor crime?
Think about it.
Would u like to see any of the young girls on this site - for example little Dania who dropped her pakora and is so innocently chatting on a Cafe thread - would u be able to tolerate seeing her hair cut off or her placed in a burqa (nothing wrong with a burqa, just giving an example now) which maybe she doesn't like.. just to punish her for chatting on GS?
After all, with the type of words being bandied about here, she can easily be corrupted, if she moves from her sweet lil thread to an adult one - just by mistake perhaps?
There are a lot of grave consequences behind words Faisal. Especially in the context of what is criminal behavior, because we are portraying our RELIGION here, not a painting of a house by the seaside. It is not a small matter. Think about them before you suggest anything.
Since this is Religion forum, and not Cafe, so may I suggest you give me one incidence where a muslim man or woman was punished for chatting? Either in the Quran or the Sunnah.
Back to your point.. Difference between crime and sin.
Lets not mix apples with... whats the other fruit! :) Lets continue the discussion about blasphemy. We can talk about adultery, if you so wish, in a different thread. We have deviated this thread enough.
last thing africa needs this relgious fanatcisim in addition to
all the tribal conflicts. only countries that can escape the wrath of fanaticism are china and japan and other east easian countries.
right on
that moron shud be killed ASAP :k:
So everone agrees that blasphemy does not deserve any punishment. According to common sense and the koran. Good...now someone needs to go and change the sharia to reflect that.
Prophet Muhammed SALLALAHU ALAIHI WASALAM did not KILL the people who THREW STONES ON HIM personally, during his own lifetime. He was actually THERE!!! YET he did not KILL anyone of them!!!
How can u justify killing someone on his behalf??
Are u ABOVE the PROPHET OF ISLAM???
He KNEW the NIYAAT of those people who HURLED STONES ON HIM, pelted him in the flesh!! YET he forgave them.
Who are u to say "Kill"?
Again, are u ABOVE the PROPHET???
*ALLAH SUBHANA WA'TALAH IS THE *ONLY AND THE FINAL JUDGE. **
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Adultery is a sin and a crime. Yes.
Blasphemy.. I am still waiting to see any evidence that it should be punishable by men. I think it is something which only God will punish on the Day of Judgement. Atleast based on the example I have in mind, where people in the city of Taif threw stones at the Prophet (Sallah o Alaihay Wasalam) and he never cursed them or ordered them be killed (at a later date). Surely throwing stones is far grave a blasphemy than writing words or saying something.
[/QUOTE]
The example you give is before the Islamic state was established in Medina, even when the sahabah (ra) were tortured no action was taken because it was intellectual struggle (i.e. a struggle between ideas Islam vs. kufr). And Muhammed (saw) was not ordered to take any physical actions (i.e. fighting or killing). So your example is out of place because after the state was established in Medina, fighting & killing took place.
On the authority of ibn Mas’ud (May Allah be pleased with him) who said: The messenger of Allah (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him said:
“The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion”
[Bukhari & Muslim]
“Whosoever changes his deen, Kill him” [Muslim & Bukhari]
Now to blaspheme, you leave the fold of Islam for Muslims, and hence, become Murtaad and are killed.
As for the non Muslims they are warned and if they are causing harm to the deen are locked up if it continues then the khaleefah will adopt an appropriate punishment which can include death.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Right now we are discussing the events in NIgeria and more specifically the blasphemy issues.
[/QUOTE]
Actually the issuing of fatwas to kill those who insult Muhammed is very relevant as to whether or not these "core laws" are intended to guide mankind throught its history. If after 1200 years there isn't even enough consensus on something as basic as whether or not you are supposed to kill someone for insulting a prophet, then the question is very relevant.
The following question & answer might be of some use…