Re: New York Times--More Muslims Immigrate After 9/11
QUOTE=ravage nay farmaya
ofcourse :)
anything else would be uncivilized.. to quote sir charles barkley's ad
*Not really. I have ofcourse a limited exposure and can only speak of the people I personally know or my own experiences. The visa wait times dont really have anything to do with what university your in. I know three kids from my batch who had admissions in Stanford and USC (two in USC), both of which come in top 10 engineering schools. eventually they had to pursue their degrees in LSE. *
GIKI grads very often go abroad with funding either RAships or scholarships, so that isnt really an issue. Furthermore amongst students selected for MOST scholarships when admission is a given, a lot choose to pursue their degree in UK.
which was the case before as well. My brother being a GIKI grad has kept me aware of not only what has happened to GIKI over the last few years, but also the trends of where the grads are going. Part of it laos had to do with the tightening of H1 visa requirements in US. It is becoming easier for grads to stay back in other countries than US, so the choice is not just how easy it is to get in, but once you are done how easy it is to stay.
Those who cannot afford it still get in thr*u the sneaky ways and still work under the table. You "eventually" do get the visa if your in a good university, "eventually" can be 2 years though. *
It is much tougher to sneak in if you cant show strong financials or a motive to come back.
*The principal reason for this is the delay in visas. People dont want to lose their years and put their career on hold to continue their education. *
agreed..
*Having lived post 9/11 both in America and Europe I atleast dont feel as welcome in US as I do here. There is a marked improvement in the government's and the local's acceptance of Muslims. However Im in UK so that is probably in part due to greater contact with Islam, we've had this conversation before :) *
where in Europe. UK is a dif story. I am from London so I can safely say that London is not the same as the rest of Uk let alone rest of EU :)
*The longing for freedom argument in the article is nonsensical. Nobody leaves Pakistan for Freedom, not many Muslims anyway. It is generally for economic/educational reasons. *
but not all muslims imigrating are Pakistanis.. people moving from Iran, middle east etc do have financial/educational considerations but many just want to have a more free lifestyle.
*Those who can make that money or get high quality education elsewhere do so. Which bears with my observation that a significantly increased number of the top tier of pakistani graduates dont choose to go to america. *
taking ppl who are not applying because they dont want to deal with hassle and wait times for universities, those who get visas rejected, and an overall incease in the number of students looking to go abroad, it would make sense that secondary and tertiary choices from a few years ago have become the first choice due to practical reasons.
Its not just students we are talking about though :)
**
Statistically its a much better sample of Pakistanies than the article anyway :). I grant that idealogues are more motivated to post their political views and WA attracts the looney fringe, but if things were as rosey as the article paints wouldnt you see a much more balanced forum? I mean if you exclude the angraiz and indian loge, its usually just mercenary2k vs expat Pakistanies. **
we have a more balanced forum, ever notice how many people simply ignore the rantings of the 'looney fringe" as you call and keep busy in cafe or other sections. The fact that they think these discussions (i.e. pisisng contests) are so lame that they choose not to even waste their time on it indicates their sentiments very well.
*well, do you feel things would be much different if you were hosting this site from Pakistan? Or Sri Lanka? *
maybe, maybe not..
*I dont understand this freedom argument americans always give. Why is it so special that you can complain, discuss or ridicule an idiotic law or attitude? You can complain or ridicule Pakistani laws and attitude too. You wont accomplish much, but people do it. I would say that constitutionally you probably have the same freedom in Congo too. What is special about complaining in America? *
yeah the freedom argument does go too far sometimes, but it is still a valid point. Its freedom with opportunity, both things.
*The only distinguishing value to living in America is standard of living and oppurtunity to make money. The rest in varying degrees you can get in a lot of other places, including Pakistan. Prior to the saudization, werent there truckloads of Pakistanies in the Gulf? *
No no no no, its not just more opportunities to make money, but more opportunities to excel, to do well. and its not always tied to money. There were many Pakistanis and Saudi Arabia and other places but they could not own property, start a business, have a say..etc etc.
If tomorrow there was the same money in Bangladesh we'd queue up to go there.
if money was the only consideration.
*You've lived in Saudi Arab right. You know how they treat illegally immigrating Pakistanies. In Muscat, Pakistanies cross over on creaky makeshift rafts. Once (if) over here they live in fear and face jail and deportation if caught. There have been incidents of policemen just shooting the people who had been caught trying to cross over. Yet the stream of people trying to come there, legally or illegally stays the same. *
and contrast that with illegal Pakistanis in US, they protest, they had been living good lives and upheavel was only caused due to security assessments after 9/11.
This is a country where a family that was illegal and made a case that they were staying due to their daughters surgery..and then even after that girl passed away they are tryin to stay..making arguments that they dont want to move and what nots. How long can one stay in KSA after the iqama or visit visa has expired? :)
And it isnt because of the freedoms.
yep, its the total package, prsonal freedom, economic and educational opportunity, less hurdles to reach your potential etc etc