New Drama of Taliban!

The statues of Buddha…Islam is in danger bcoz of them…BuTt shikann…

Sometimes I really feel sad when:

  1. We Muslims don’t allow other religions to practice their religious rights!

  2. We don’t allow non-Muslims to live a peaceful life in Muslim countries!

All Muslim countries are fighting in Middle East over Al Aqsa…How about Israel, if she takes an instance of demolishing it by saying Jews are in danger bcoz of them.

If we accept the logic of “so called Taliban” then we should have to say "fanatic Hindus had demolished the Babri Mosque RIGHTLY bcoz Hinduism was in danger due to that!!!

Allah Madarsah kay MoulviouN ko AQAL say nawazay, Ameen!!!


Nadeem

The boldness of Taleban is praiseworthy. They are one of the few countries who are practising orthodox Islam. But such incidents rather harm the reputation of Islam. The Islam portrayed by the Taleban is cruel, harsh and uncompromising, which is quite contrary to Islam.

The smashing of the statues shows that Islam respects no religion. Our Prophet(SAWS) had taught us otherwise. We can't expect to be respected by anyone if we don't respect them. It was a shame to see the placards carried by the Buddhist monks flled with great hate, and quite rightly so. I don't know why then the Muslims caused such an uproar over the demolishing of Babri Masjid.

But one aspect worth mentioning here is that there were no such international concerns over the demolishing of the Babri Masjid. Wasn't the Babri Masjid part of Indian Culture and history?

Where was this outcry when the people of Afghanistan were dying of cold and hunger? If they want to impose sanctions, at least care about the people they are hurting.. or are a few old statues worth more than a human life?

Allah Madarsah kay MoulviouN ko AQAL say nawazay, Ameen!!!

Thats

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

BTW if they get it they will not be that then.

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**
[/QUOTE]

The problem with taleban is that they think they are divinely guided.
They hate every westren thing but ask for help from them, use thier weapons but hate them, am waiting when they will start using swords for thier self imposed war as part of sunnah.
Hav really left back every civilisation including Buddha civilisation.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif

Taleban bashing again...Man dont you'll have any lives, coming here and spewing western media crap on this forum.......

Before making the assumption that talebans are doing things against Islam, think about it. Could it be possible that we have come so far from Islam that we do not recognize the true implementation of Islam even if it came and bit us. Secondly, how educated are you in Islam(Quran and Sunnah, Seerat), if not, then you have absolutely no right to point fingures at the Taleban. How can you claim to protect Islam when you have'nt the slightest clue of its ideology according to Quran and Sunnah. Learning about Islam from a www(url) or some other non-essentail book, I'm sorry does not qualify as "knowing Islam".

Ponder on this :
When the prophet took control of Mecca. The ashabees demolished all the 100's of Idols in it that were hundreds of years old. Non-muslims were living there too. The situation in Afghanistan is no different than this.

[quote]
Originally posted by zman:
**Taleban bashing again...Man dont you'll have any lives, coming here and spewing western media crap on this forum.......

Before making the assumption that talebans are doing things against Islam, think about it. Could it be possible that we have come so far from Islam that we do not recognize the true implementation of Islam even if it came and bit us. Secondly, how educated are you in Islam(Quran and Sunnah, Seerat), if not, then you have absolutely no right to point fingures at the Taleban. How can you claim to protect Islam when you have'nt the slightest clue of its ideology according to Quran and Sunnah. Learning about Islam from a www(url) or some other non-essentail book, I'm sorry does not qualify as "knowing Islam".

Ponder on this :
When the prophet took control of Mecca. The ashabees demolished all the 100's of Idols in it that were hundreds of years old. Non-muslims were living there too. The situation in Afghanistan is no different than this.**
[/quote]

Ditto!

Done with Pondering!

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Hazoor (saw) demolished the Idols because Khana Kaba was first build by Hazrat Ibrahim (as) and Ismaeal (as) for the worship of Allah! The pagans took it over afterwards and made it an Idol place! Got it??

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And if Hazoor (saw) had to demolish all the Idol, he would have gone around Macca at the time in all the Churches and Pagan houses and demolished every Idol he could find. But No, he didn’t! Only demolished the ones in Khana Kaba, in the house of Allah for the worship of Allah!

P.s: Not everyone who is bashing Talaban is Pro-West. Have said it many times and will say it again! I am Pro-Islam and I think they are Anti-Islam.

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Brother, please don’t run into bias conclusions!


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited March 07, 2001).]

how come taleban at this moment suddenly woke up and started bashing ancient art works.
They should spend thier energies in taking care of rather sick and hungry fellow muslim men instead of antagonizing activities.
As hazrat Umer said, I won’t sleep peacefully even if a dog sleeps hungry at night.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif

.

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited March 07, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by zman:
**Taleban bashing again...Man dont you'll have any lives, coming here and spewing western media crap on this forum.......

Before making the assumption that talebans are doing things against Islam, think about it. Could it be possible that we have come so far from Islam that we do not recognize the true implementation of Islam even if it came and bit us. Secondly, how educated are you in Islam(Quran and Sunnah, Seerat), if not, then you have absolutely no right to point fingures at the Taleban. How can you claim to protect Islam when you have'nt the slightest clue of its ideology according to Quran and Sunnah. Learning about Islam from a www(url) or some other non-essentail book, I'm sorry does not qualify as "knowing Islam".

Ponder on this :
When the prophet took control of Mecca. The ashabees demolished all the 100's of Idols in it that were hundreds of years old. Non-muslims were living there too. The situation in Afghanistan is no different than this.**
[/quote]

DITTO !!!!!!

nice post sir jee

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..sab dramay baazi hai

ahmadjee great point

Read your post and think hard. If the Taliban were really that bad they could have gone to every Sikh and Hindu house and destroyed their idols. But they didn’t, in fact they said they respect them and they will not interfere with their religious practices.

The two figures are in one of the main Islamic city. Where Muslim prays, not Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist. Just like the Prophet (pbuh) only destroyed the idols where he was suppose to, the Taliban did where they were suppose to. Just like the Prophet (pbuh) didn’t go to any churches or houses and didn’t destroyed their figures. The same way the taliban did not enter any Hindu temples, Sikh religious places or their houses to destroy their idols. In order to purify the city it was required for them to remove any false god or idols where Allah (swt) is praised 24/7.

One “Prophet (pbuh)” required purifying the House of Allah (swt), and the other “Taliban” required purifying their city. Both showed religious tolerance where it counts the most, the kaffirs houses and temples.

Salaaam

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

ps> Zman

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif


We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited March 07, 2001).]

Personally i feel no shame what so ever in pur prophet destroying the idols. Idols are mans creation ad shold not be worshiped. That is my belife and that I what I stand for. The destruction of the idols in mecca was like cleaning the mosque. U know get rid of all the unwanted stuff. When Mohammed (saw) destroyed the idols what happened. Did the idols jump up and stop him...no. DId the muslims of that time get cursed for destroying them...no.

So do i really care if the statues were destroyed...no. Whould i have cared if there were Budhists there who were worshiping them...YES. What would i have done.... left the statue alone. Take this example. The sphinx in Egypt, when Umar (ra) captured Egypt he did not destroy the monuments. So there is my answer. But the fact of the matter is that History in shape of statues is not really important. What is more important is the state of the people living there. That should be the focus not some peice of art.

Grand Mufti of Pakistan Questions Criticism of Taliban

Mufti Rafi Usmani, the Grand Mufti of Pakistan, has denied the assertion
that the destruction of statues is an un-Islamic act. In a telephone
interview with Albalagh E Journal (http://ww.albalagh.net) he clarified
the Islamic position on this issue. He noted that Qur’an does tell us
about the example of Prophet Ibrahim, alayhi salam, who had destroyed the
idols. He also reminded that Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa
sallam, did destroy all the 360 idols in the Ka’ba after the conquest of
Makkah.

He however stated that there could be a disagreement among the scholars
regarding the priorities and the methods. “There are many evils in the
society,” he said. “And scholars may disagree over which ones need the
most attention at a given time.” Similarly he said that scholars could
disagree over the particular approach taken to eradicate an evil. Some
might question whether the action would alienate the Buddhists nations in
Southeast Asia at a critical time for Afghanistan. However, he knew that
the Taliban had taken the decisions in light of guidance from their
respected scholars.

The Grand Mufti of Pakistan also questioned the right of the world leaders
to criticize Taliban. “The people who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, who
killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, and are killing people in
Afghanistan through the recently imposed sanctions, how strange that they
should be raising their voice in support of stone statues?”

Mufti Rafi Usmani further said that it is a mistake to think that the
Taliban are a bunch of ignorant people. “I know them personally. They
themselves are not ignorant in Shariah. They also have scholars among them
and their decisions are based on the guidance from their respected
scholars.”

High regard to Mufti Rafi Usmani & his bro Taqi Usmani, but request you to read his para again,

[quote]
He however stated that there could be a disagreement among the scholars
regarding the priorities and the methods. "There are many evils in the
society," he said. "And scholars may disagree over which ones need the
most attention at a given time." Similarly he said that scholars could
disagree over the particular approach taken to eradicate an evil. Some
might question whether the action would alienate the Buddhists nations in
Southeast Asia at a critical time for Afghanistan. However, he knew that
the Taliban had taken the decisions in light of guidance from their
respected scholars.
[/quote]

It needs more explanation.

Here are few more questions about the action taken by Talibaan:

  1. It looks that non-Muslims are not allowed to practice their religious rights in an Islamic state?????

  2. If the answer of point 1 is YES, then whole world has to admit that Islam is a religion that will never allow other religions to co-exist. But as far as traditional Islamic knowledge is concerned that: a) Marriage with Ahl-e-Kitaab is allowed, b) Zabeeha (slaughtering) of Ahl-e-kitaab is also allowed.....and so on

  3. Breaking the idols in a far flung area and demolishing the idols in Kabaah has a difference of world.

Actually the porblem is that Talibaan has mixed their AFGHANI CULTURE with Islam and forcing whole world to accept their CULTURE as Islam.


Nadeem

[quote]
Originally posted by Nadeem:
**

Here are few more questions about the action taken by Talibaan:

  1. It looks that non-Muslims are not allowed to practice their religious rights in an Islamic state?????

Actually the porblem is that Talibaan has mixed their AFGHANI CULTURE with Islam and forcing whole world to accept their CULTURE as Islam.

**
[/quote]

If this topic is to be conducted in pure academic manner then all pro and anti Taliban bias should be dropped and then a Rashun Daleel (Solid Proof) be presented to all brothers and sisters that there is no religious freedom in Afghanistan for non-Muslims.

Secondly it is very important for all of to understand that what is the position of non-Muslims who are not from among the People of Book (Christians and Jews) according to Islamic teachings. Muslims do have the responsibility to protect the People of Book against a special tax. Does this protection also applies to non-Muslims other then People of Book?

**Icon smashing - the precedents

There has been world condemnation of the destruction

By George Fitzherbert
The decision by the hardline Islamic government of Afghanistan to destroy all statues in the country has provoked indignation across the world.

Even Pakistan, the Taleban's closest ally, has called on the Taleban to show greater tolerance.

But the destruction of statues for ideological or doctrinal reasons has a long history in the world, right across Europe and Asia, and is by no means restricted to the Muslim world.

Indeed, the word iconoclasm - the breaking of images - derives from the early centuries of the Christian era.

Mao Zedong: His image replaced religious ones

During the Cultural Revolution in China the then premier, Mao Zedong, launched a massive campaign to eradicate what were known as the Four Olds - Old Culture, Old Thinking, Old Ideas and Old Habits.

In Tibet, where the Buddhist society placed great emphasis on holy relics, images and statues, this was particularly devastating.

Tsering Shakya, a Tibetan historian working at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, said there was a feeling by Maoists that traditional symbols and religious ideology were hampering the construction of the new Tibet.

There was no question of choosing to be involved or not to be involved, because if you say you will not be involved, its likely that you would be executed

Tsering Shakya, Tibetan historian

"The presence of the statues was a reminder of the past and the people's devotion to tradition," said Tsering Shakya.

"Mao used to say if you make a mistake, there's no point in trying to correct it in piecemeal fashion, what you need to do is to wipe it out completely and create a totally new culture.

"So during the Cultural Revolution there was an attempt to literally destroy every single religious item.

"We are not just talking about the destruction of a few important statues, we are talking about the destruction of the entire presence of religious symbols in private houses, in monasteries, temples, village prayer halls.

English precedent

Going back 400 years to the English reformation, there are examples of the destruction of religious images on grounds remarkably similar to those used by the Taleban - namely to discourage idolatry.

The campaign of destruction went on for a whole century, starting during the reign of Henry VIII as part of the campaign against the monasteries.

The Buddhas offend the Taleban regime

Dr Margaret Aston, a historian of the English Reformation, and author of the book England's Iconoclasts, explained: "It was like a kind of propaganda campaign which was carefully masterminded by the king's chief minister Thomas Cromwell.

"Objects were actually torn to bits in front of a congregation of people who were being instructed in this way."

The idea behind the destruction, she said, was commandments in the Old Testament that said 'Thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven image or any likeness', and 'Thou shall not bow down to them'.

"The feeling was that people were attributing to the object, to the images - and this particularly applies to sculpture, which is the most realistic art form - they were attributing to the objects a power that is really only God's," said Dr Aston.

"When people in England, for instance, were kneeling before an image of the virgin, they were praying to the Virgin, and were expecting answers from the Virgin."

There was such a thorough campaign against religious statues in England that there are very few such works of art left.**

11 March 2001 Sunday 15 Zilhaj 1421

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**
US Muslim group slams destruction of statues
**

By Tahir Mirza

WASHINGTON, March 10: The American Muslim Council (AMC) has also joined in condemnation of the Taliban move to destroy the ancient Bamiyan Buddha statues in central Afghanistan.

The AMC says it is deeply disturbed by the statues' destruction despite offers from foreign museums to buy them and a proposal to build a giant wall to hide them.

In a statement, the AMC says the Taliban's actions "betray Islam's inherent respect for other religions and specific commands in the Holy Quran that emphasize tolerance for all religions.

Dr Ali Mazrui, director, Institute of Global Cultural Studies at Binghamton University, is quoted as saying: "Those who would like their own sacred symbols respected owe a similar level of respect to the sacred symbols of others. The Muslim world is therefore offended not just when an ancient mosque is demolished in Ayodhya, India, not just when the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem is threatened. The Muslim world is also offended when fellow Muslims desecrate Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan. The Abrahamic religions share the Golden Rule --. Do unto others what you would have done to you. "The Taliban insult Islam when they abuse Buddhism."

Prof Sulayman Nyang of Howard University said: "Neither a Muslim nor a non-Muslim has any right to deface, deform or violate the shrines of other faith communities. Such acts of vandalism are not condoned by Muslims and thus, it is dangerous and unwise for any non-Muslim to construe such an act as Islamic. The acts of the Taliban government fall into the category of actions that are reprehensible and unacceptable."

Prof Aziza Al-Hibri, T.C. Williams School of Law, University of Richmond, points out that for centuries, Islam has preserved and even maintained all prior cultural expressions, including the Egyptian Sphinx, the Persian Persepolis, ancient houses of worship belonging to other religions, and the pictures, images, artefacts and possessions they housed. In fact, had it not been for Islamic protection, these structures and artefacts may not have survived.

In a long report on Saturday detailing Muslim outrage at the Taliban action, The Washington Post referred to the awkward situation created by the Taliban for Pakistan. "Given their closer relations, Pakistani officials say they have tried to persuade the Taliban not to destroy the Buddhas," the report says. "At the same time, they express sympathy for Afghanistan's plight and say they can understand why the Taliban would lash out at a world that has isolated them and punished them with sanctions. Likewise, even the Taliban's critics suggest that the destruction of the statues is a response not so much different from American suburban teenagers who are shunned by their peers and eventually open fire on schoolmates."

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