No offence taken but the whole premise of your argument, Muzna Baaji, is on assumption that the remedy in return is also Jadoo and that the Spiritual remedy is not “generally towards goodness.”
If it is Jaadu, then, clearly it is shirk but if it is not, then, the argument holds no real foundations.
Prophet:saw2: had Jaddu done on him and since his life is a role-model for us, if Allah:subhanahu: only wanted us to pray to HIM and not seek for worldly means He has created, then, a prayer would have sufficed. But No, He sent the cure - Surah Falaq and Surah Naas for THAT type of Jaadu… Clearly, Dua to HIM was only one factor in the remedy, but “THE CURE” was another factor.
My argument about doctor Vs Spiritual healer through Zik’r may be at the lowest level of intellect, but I find it hypocritical to say that if I have fever, I need to go to doctor and take medicine but if I have “seh’r” done on me, I need not to go to the one who Allah has given the knowledge of Remedy. No offence meant but why dua is not the only option in either case?
I don't want to go in arguments, jado tona etc is some fact, and it is shirk and people who are involved in this action are out of Islam right away! ...
Allah knows every thing, our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was also under attack of Jadu and he remained under attack for few days! and then Allah sent Angel Gebrial tell him the remedy to cure this and its in Quran!
When we don't know anything we go to person who knows something, you need to understand the difficulties while curing... Yes I prayed to Allah, I have been to Kaaba many times during Hajj and many Umraah, and I asked Allah to cure this, and this is how I get His help in the form of that Buzurg! ... now I tell you ... Jadu was done using a bad Jin, and the person who captured that jin was also a Jin yes that Buzurg... I didn't want to reveal, but since you argue a lot! ... My believe is on ALLAH only, and I also believe that when you ask ALLAH for help, HE do help us and listen us and shows the path or send someone to you for your help! ... I really don;t understand how curing is a shirk? should I remain under Jadu for my whole life? ... it was that Buzurg who came from no where to me and helped me and that too because I asked Allah for help! ...
We are sinful humans, and we can only ask ALLAH for HIS mercy and help and fortunately HE do listen us always and HE is THE one who creates reasons to help us in the form of human or jin or sometimes without any medium! ...
I am not sure if I am able to convince you or not, but recite soora't Jin in Quran and read translation... or I might call you cuz now I feel I am not good in expressing myself in extremely best way :s
recitation of Surah Falaq and Surah Naas (or numerous other surahs from the holy Quran that have been identified for such purposes) is the “prayer” and “supplication” that I am referring to.
why can we not do this ourselves?
in my recent research on this subject I came across another hadees that was of particular interest and could be referenced here…
while it will draw this debate on for longer than I had planned…I will try to find it.
I don't want to go in arguments, jado tona etc is some fact, and it is shirk and people who are involved in this action are out of Islam right away! ...
there is no need for argument Ata....I agree completely.
Allah knows every thing, our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was also under attack of Jadu and he remained under attack for few days! and then Allah sent Angel Gebrial tell him the remedy to cure this and its in Quran!
you have provided your own proof.....the remedy is in the Quran......
We are expected to work to feed ourselves as long as we do not break any of His rules.
If going to a "buzurg" to seek remedy means using the same means or methods that the perpetrator used, then this is against His rules.
I can't put it in simpler terms.
Now...let me make one other point clear....there are folks in the world that have been deprived of an education. They simply do not know the appropriate surahs to recite....or do not know how to read/recite arabic.....or worse still, do not know how to read at all.
Alims, imams and maulanas are necessary to service these types of communities and pockets of ignorance.
If an illiterate person goes to an imaam or alim and asks for such a remedy....and the person of authority tells them to recite certain surahs or have someone recite for them....then THAT is not shirk.
there is no need for argument Ata....I agree completely.
you have provided your own proof.....the remedy is in the Quran......
That remedy is a dua for protecting from evils, although I pray that every day,
There is a difference in Nazar and Jadu, Nazar can be cured with simple dua written in Quran, but Jadu is some dirty work done by humans using bad jins, Jadu have different kinds some are simple and some are typical, it needs some methods to cure, which I don't know so Allah sent that buzurg for my help, so whats the problem in that ? ... if I know the remedy I would have done myself, but if I don't know then I should consult who have knowledge! ...
Ata.....
As long as you are okay and you are satisfied, nothing else matters.
What I think and what I do is strictly between me and Allah.
You chose to seek out someone that helped you. Great. May Allah give him jaza for his neeyat and you for yours', ameen!
Thanks for understanding and dua... :-)
There are millions of people who can cure, but they ask money and at the same time they also do Jadu tona... yes those people are wrong and those are involved in SHIRK and are out of Islam, ... but I didn't go to those people! This Jadu at me was there for more than 10 years, and I asked Allah for help! I prayed I did Hajj and Umrah ( I am mentioning this because when you do Hajj and Many Umrah then you sure be doing dua in Mecca and Medina) but Allah has made laws and methods, indeed Allah can do but the system of Universe go by rules, when you ask for Allah's help HE do help but though some medium, HE can send someone to you for your help, you may never know why someone helped you, you might be thanking to that person, but we should realize that person came to us for help was actually sent by Allah... this is how the system goes on! ...
You remember the event when 2 Jews were trying to dig out one tunnel near to Rasool Allah's Roza-e-Mubarak in Medina? There who came to caught those jews doing dirtiest work ? That was a Muslim King who saw Rasool Allah in his dream for 3 consecutive nights asking him to come and protect him from those dirty jews whose plan was to dig out a tunnel and remove the body of Rasool Allah :SAW:... (NAIOOZ O BILLAH) ... So, why Rasool :SAW: Asked that Muslim King to come and protect him? because Allah chose that King to do this work... Allah would have done this though but then things goes by rules!